NationStates

Bear Stearns wrote:

Wallenburg wrote:Between Turkey murdering potentially hundreds of thousands of innocent people and a handful of US troops being at marginal risk, I'll take the latter option, yeah.

Look at the long-term consequences of US intervention. Where has it ever done good in the Middle East?

Iraq is better off now than under Sadam.
Depending on your definition of "the Middle East," Afghanistan is better off as well. Reading, music, voting, girls going to school were all banned by the Taliban. Now you have millions of kids in school,voting, women in politics, etc.

Note - I am saying better off, I'm not saying things are perfectly fine or even ok but they are definitely better off.

Olde Carolina wrote:

Bear Stearns wrote:
Look at the long-term consequences of US intervention. Where has it ever done good in the Middle East?

Iraq is better off now than under Sadam.
Depending on your definition of "the Middle East," Afghanistan is better off as well. Reading, music, voting, girls going to school were all banned by the Taliban. Now you have millions of kids in school,voting, women in politics, etc.

Note - I am saying better off, I'm not saying things are perfectly fine or even ok but they are definitely better off.

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/ ... ussein-era
https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/f ... w-1.719746
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/opin ... sary-.html
https://www.spiegel.de/international/ir ... 52410.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 32742.html
Lol, no.

Torrocca wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Oh don't give me that horseshit. The PKK are just a covert group for them. Also, I wasn't talking about the PKK only. Rojava themselves have committed atrocities as well.

Mmhmm. Whatever you say. Must be nice listening to literal Turkish propaganda demonizing Rojava, eh?

There's also that neat "logic" of "they deserve ethnic cleansing because the SDF did a war crime"

As if two war crimes somehow cancel themselves out or justify the other.

Valrifell wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Mmhmm. Whatever you say. Must be nice listening to literal Turkish propaganda demonizing Rojava, eh?

There's also that neat "logic" of "they deserve ethnic cleansing because the SDF did a war crime"

As if two war crimes somehow cancel themselves out or justify the other.

Yeah, there's some particularly heinous bullshit behind that "logic".

Chestaan wrote:

Torrocca wrote:It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

Here's hoping the PKK step up their activities in Turkey.

Voicing support for the activities of a designated terrorist group (by at least a score of nations and international organisations) is not on, and as such you are *** warned for trolling (advocating violence/death) ***

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:

Loben The 2nd wrote:
Encouraging terrorist acts already?

The PKK would be much more preferable than Recep Turnip Erdodog's Islamist Reign of Terror across Anatolia.

Political nicknaming is not acceptable on this site. Knock it off.

Valrifell wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Mmhmm. Whatever you say. Must be nice listening to literal Turkish propaganda demonizing Rojava, eh?

There's also that neat "logic" of "they deserve ethnic cleansing because the SDF did a war crime"

As if two war crimes somehow cancel themselves out or justify the other.

Show me where I said the turks deserve genocide. I fucking dare you.

Torrocca wrote:

Valrifell wrote:
There's also that neat "logic" of "they deserve ethnic cleansing because the SDF did a war crime"

As if two war crimes somehow cancel themselves out or justify the other.

Yeah, there's some particularly heinous bullshit behind that "logic".

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him, provide evidence where I said they deserved genocide, and while you're at it provide evidence where I supported the Turks in their invasion into Syria.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Yeah, there's some particularly heinous bullshit behind that "logic".

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him, provide evidence where I said they deserved genocide, and while you're at it provide evidence where I supported the Turks in their invasion into Syria.

If you can't see how you essentially stating that an entire ethnic group is committing terrorism against Turkey in response to "genocide's bad" openly implies that the Kurds deserve to be genocided, then I can't help you.

Speaking of a genocide in Rojava, where was the international community when hundreds of thousands of civilians in Aleppo, Idlib, Homs, Hama and Eastern Ghouta were being besieged, barrel-bombed, double-tapped, stabbed, gassed and starved to death by the Assad regime and Russia? Where was the international community when aid ambulances routinely passed by rebel-held towns and cities to unload their supplies in regime-controlled areas? Where is the international community's solidarity with the White Helmets, who have been putting their lives on the line to rescue civilians, only to be targeted themselves in what is possibly the most dangerous job in the world? Why is it only now that Turkey is invading Rojava that people are talking about an imminent genocide?

I can never bring myself to unsee and unhear the horrific YouTube videos of children screaming in agony and dying on camera from graphic wounds as a result of Assad's airstrikes and chemical gas attacks. I'll never forget what happened in Houla in 2012 or Eastern Ghouta in 2013, or Aleppo in its final days. I can never bring myself to forgive Assad, Putin and those who have defended them over the past eight years and conjured up unfounded Russian conspiracy bullshit involving the CIA, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It is why I now support the death penalty for murder, war crimes, terrorism, crimes against humanity and genocide when previously I was against it. For me, this has always been about bringing monsters to justice.

But I now reluctantly accept that it is already too late to depose Assad without making the situation much worse than it already is. The facts on the ground in Syria have shifted tremendously over the years. Idlib province, which is mostly now controlled by HTS, an Islamist terror group, can no longer be saved. The moderate rebels, or what's left of them, have been all but snuffed out of existence. The original Free Syrian Army consisting mainly of Syrian Army defectors has been largely replaced by a Turkish-backed "Free Syrian Army" in far-northwestern Syria. There is no longer a popular Syrian revolution to save, and I blame both Assad and Islamist terrorists for this, and I blame Obama for his inaction and apathy.

Kurdish Rojava is all that stands between freedom and democracy and total humiliation and subjugation for both the Kurds and Arab Syrians across the entire country, by ISIS, Turkey, Assad and HTS. America must step back in and salvage what's left.

The Kurdish people have done so much to keep America and the rest of the world safe, and Trump's betrayal can never be forgiven. But the hypocrisy of those who would turn their backs on the Syrian people for eight fucking years only to speak out now is simply mindblowing, and these anti-war types should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. This is what "America should not be involved in foreign conflicts" brings us. But it's good that most people, including many (though not all) conservatives, Republicans and Trump supporters, condemn what's happening now, because history is literally repeating itself before our very eyes. Better late than never.

I stand with Rojava and self-determination for the Kurdish people, just as I have stood with the Jews of Israel, Tibetans, Uighurs, Hong Kongers and other oppressed minorities fighting to be/remain free and secure within their own national borders, against those who would seek to snuff out their light and their very existence.

Torrocca wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him, provide evidence where I said they deserved genocide, and while you're at it provide evidence where I supported the Turks in their invasion into Syria.

If you can't see how you essentially stating that an entire ethnic group is committing terrorism against Turkey in response to "genocide's bad" openly implies that the Kurds deserve to be genocided, then I can't help you.

Except I never stated such a thing. That post wasn't in response to ''genocide bad'' it was in response to you saying that the Kurds were ''naturally'' better than the Turks. Oh look! According to your own fucked up logic, you just did a racism. You're saying that all ethnic Kurds are better than Turks. For shame, Torrocca, for shame!

Chernoslavia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
If you can't see how you essentially stating that an entire ethnic group is committing terrorism against Turkey in response to "genocide's bad" openly implies that the Kurds deserve to be genocided, then I can't help you.

Except I never stated such a thing. That post wasn't in response to ''genocide bad'' it was in response to you saying that the Kurds were ''naturally'' better than the Turks. Oh look! According to your own fucked up logic, you just did a racism. You're saying that all ethnic Kurds are better than Turks. For shame, Torrocca, for shame!

Looks way more like you were responding to me saying "genocide bad" than to my sarcasm, actually:

Chernoslavia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Because I don't want a genocide to happen, that obviously means that I think Kurds are naturally better than Turks. What an absolute bullshit line of thinking. Not that I'd expect anything better, considering you're more concerned with bitching about "virtue signaling" than this atrocious invasion of Northern Syria at the hands of Erdogan's regime.

Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right?

Torrocca wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:Except I never stated such a thing. That post wasn't in response to ''genocide bad'' it was in response to you saying that the Kurds were ''naturally'' better than the Turks. Oh look! According to your own fucked up logic, you just did a racism. You're saying that all ethnic Kurds are better than Turks. For shame, Torrocca, for shame!

Looks way more like you were responding to me saying "genocide bad" than to my sarcasm, actually:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right?

And I told you otherwise but you proceeded to do the same song and dance.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Looks way more like you were responding to me saying "genocide bad" than to my sarcasm, actually:

And I told you otherwise but you proceeded to do the same song and dance.

You pretty much said Kurdish terrorism justified Turkey doing what it does best on minority groups.

Gormwood wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
And I told you otherwise but you proceeded to do the same song and dance.

You pretty much said Kurdish terrorism justified Turkey doing what it does best on minority groups.

And you're a liar.

Olde Carolina wrote:

Bear Stearns wrote:
Look at the long-term consequences of US intervention. Where has it ever done good in the Middle East?

Iraq is better off now than under Sadam.
Depending on your definition of "the Middle East," Afghanistan is better off as well. Reading, music, voting, girls going to school were all banned by the Taliban. Now you have millions of kids in school,voting, women in politics, etc.

Note - I am saying better off, I'm not saying things are perfectly fine or even ok but they are definitely better off.

How tfw is Iraq better off?

Fuck Erdogan, Biji Rojava, Turkey should be kicked out of NATO.

Gormwood wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
And I told you otherwise but you proceeded to do the same song and dance.

You pretty much said Kurdish terrorism justified Turkey doing what it does best on minority groups.

You might want to source that claim.

Bear Stearns wrote:

Olde Carolina wrote:
Iraq is better off now than under Sadam.
Depending on your definition of "the Middle East," Afghanistan is better off as well. Reading, music, voting, girls going to school were all banned by the Taliban. Now you have millions of kids in school,voting, women in politics, etc.

Note - I am saying better off, I'm not saying things are perfectly fine or even ok but they are definitely better off.

How tfw is Iraq better off?

*buzzer sound*.

What Trump told me in a tweet!

Bear Stearns wrote:

Olde Carolina wrote:
Iraq is better off now than under Sadam.
Depending on your definition of "the Middle East," Afghanistan is better off as well. Reading, music, voting, girls going to school were all banned by the Taliban. Now you have millions of kids in school,voting, women in politics, etc.

Note - I am saying better off, I'm not saying things are perfectly fine or even ok but they are definitely better off.

How tfw is Iraq better off?

I think he means in terms of civil liberties and such which I would agree. But then again, the current Iraqi government passed a few gun restriction laws while Saddam's regime didn't even bother to regulate firearms in the slightest.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Bear Stearns wrote:
How tfw is Iraq better off?

I think he means in terms of civil liberties and such which I would agree. But then again, the current Iraqi government passed a few gun restriction laws while Saddam's regime didn't even bother to regulate firearms in the slightest.

Eh? I think the Iraqi’s would prefer gun regulation over the way Sadaam handled problems.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
I think he means in terms of civil liberties and such which I would agree. But then again, the current Iraqi government passed a few gun restriction laws while Saddam's regime didn't even bother to regulate firearms in the slightest.

Eh? I think the Iraqi’s would prefer gun regulation over the way Sadaam handled problems.

Strangely enough some Iraqis think of Saddam's regime as the ''good ol days''.

Chernoslavia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Eh? I think the Iraqi’s would prefer gun regulation over the way Sadaam handled problems.

Strangely enough some Iraqis think of Saddam's regime as the ''good ol days''.

Which might have more to do with the state of perpetual war, the rise of Daesh, hundreds of thousands of dead people, and the other consequences of the war, not so much gun control.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Erdogan threatened to open the flood gates and send millions of refugees to Europe if they continue the hardline against Turkey. Fun times are ahead.

Damn, that's based and redpilled. Erdogan is really exuding big dick energy with this. cCc

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Erdogan threatened to open the flood gates and send millions of refugees to Europe if they continue the hardline against Turkey. Fun times are ahead.

Counter that threat with Turkey being expelled from NATO and Erdogan would fold.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Gormwood wrote:You pretty much said Kurdish terrorism justified Turkey doing what it does best on minority groups.

You might want to source that claim.

Chernoslavia wrote:Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right?

Whataboutism of the Kurds in response to someone stating genocide is bad makes it look that way.