Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

[Napkizemlja]

No, they've been doing it for awhile by allying with Assad in a number of instances despite the US's stated opposition to the Assad regime. It even pointed out that they joined Assad's forces in the Battle of Aleppo.

I'm sure this quagmire is something that America should have continued to involve itself in for years to come though.

Yes, how horrible. Just appalling how the Kurds and the Syrian government decided they would be better off not fighting each other for a while and fighting ISIS instead.

"How horrible for us to betray our allies and their interests!"
>Those same allies betray American interests

:thonking:

[Nakena]

Imagine if the YPG hadn't decided to hitch themselves to the PKK and instead taken the Peshmerga approach - this whole thing could have been avoided.

The YPG was apparently the syrian branch of the PKK to begin with.

[Napkizemlja]

Imagine if the YPG hadn't decided to hitch themselves to the PKK and instead taken the Peshmerga approach - this whole thing could have been avoided.

The YPG was apparently the syrian branch of the PKK to begin with.

Could have pulled a People's Front of Judea and become a bunch of splitters.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I appeal to the conscience of those who vote for Ypg terrorists %66

I will be human despite all things !

[Risastorstein]

Can't wait for another migrant crisis and ISIS' comeback. God I missed 2015

[Saiwania]

The slayers of the caliphate need protection if not help. The Peshmerga were driving out ISIS while Turkey was helping them.

If Trump is abandoning all support for them, that counts against him in my eyes. I'm okay with the US withdrawing but the weaponry should still be going to them at minimum. That way, the Kurds will have a fighting chance but it'd still be up to them to make the best use of it. If they fail, Turkey will crush them; while if they fight well enough- they'll win the victory they want.

I think it should be easy enough to get Turkey on board with Kurdish independence or autonomy if all of the Kurds in Turkey are allowed to leave or be moved into Kurdish territories in Iraq and Syria and all Kurdish claims to Turkey are relinquished in exchange for Kurdish Iraq and Syria being left alone.

If Turkey is content to try to destroy Kurdistan, I'm in favor of the US if not Russia intervening to keep that from happening. Turkey and Russia don't always get along, that plane of Russia's Turkey shot down as one example. So I think Russia could be the one to check Turkish ambitions running rampant.

[Nakena]

The slayers of the caliphate need protection if not help. The Peshmerga were driving out ISIS while Turkey was helping them.

If Trump is abandoning all support for them, that counts against him in my eyes. I'm okay with the US withdrawing but the weaponry should still be going to them at minimum. That way, the Kurds will have a fighting chance but it'd still be up to them to make the best use of it. If they fail, Turkey will crush them; while if they fight well enough- they'll win the victory they want.

I think it should be easy enough to get Turkey on board with Kurdish independence or autonomy if all of the Kurds in Turkey are allowed to leave or be moved into Kurdish territories in Iraq and Syria and all Kurdish claims to Turkey are relinquished in exchange for Kurdish Iraq and Syria being left alone.

If Turkey is content to try to destroy Kurdistan, I'm in favor of the US if not Russia intervening to keep that from happening. Turkey and Russia don't always get along, that plane of Russia's Turkey shot down as one example. So I think Russia could be the one to check Turkish ambitions running rampant.

Peshmerga (Iraq) and Rojava (Syria) are two different kurd factions who do not like each other.

[Major-Tom]

Erdogan bad.
This isn't up for debate.

...Yeah, Erdogan gargles massive donkey balls, but that isn't exactly the topic at hand. It's whether or not we (the US) have a political obligation and moral precedent in staying in Kurdistan, ie, with a military presence.

I'm still inclined to say no, our presence alone wasn't going to stop foreign powers from infringing on Kurdish rights, and I'd rather not see more US troops sent to fight overseas when our primary focus should be scaling back our military immensely. Humanitarian assistance at the highest level is necessary for the Kurds. But if Turkey wants to start an offensive, that's something to keep an eye on before we make any decision of military intervention, which still might be morally necessary in the future.

[Trayvik]

Hello. I am mostly monitoring the protests. In Iraq. But I find the Turkish offensive in Syria to be interesting. Does anyone have any good sources aside from The Twitter and liveua? Thank you.

[Wallenburg]

Yes, how horrible. Just appalling how the Kurds and the Syrian government decided they would be better off not fighting each other for a while and fighting ISIS instead.

"How horrible for us to betray our allies and their interests!"
>Those same allies betray American interests

:thonking:

ISIS is one of America's interests now. Fascinating.

[Napkizemlja]

"How horrible for us to betray our allies and their interests!"
>Those same allies betray American interests

:thonking:

ISIS is one of America's interests now. Fascinating.

Am I the only one who read that article and where it pointed out how the Kurds had teamed up with Assad to fight the FSA or what?

[Luminesa]

Yes, without them, they would be. Go ahead Wallenburg, tell us why Kurdistan is worth even a single American Life. I want to hear you moralize to us.

Between Turkey murdering potentially hundreds of thousands of innocent people and a handful of US troops being at marginal risk, I'll take the latter option, yeah.

The Kurds are kinda scattered through the ME from my limited understanding. Some are in Syria, yes, but many also live in Iraq, which Turkey is not focused on as much at the moment. And the Kurds are an ethnic minority as well. I doubt either side wants a two-front battle, in which the Kurds would get stomped anyway. Soooo...where are the hundreds of thousands of Kurds? How many live in Syria?

[Luminesa]

"How horrible for us to betray our allies and their interests!"
>Those same allies betray American interests

:thonking:

ISIS is one of America's interests now. Fascinating.

Yes, destroying ISIS has been one of our interests for a while.

[Risottia]

Hey, look, a country is invading its neighbour, a UN member, with the declared purpose of ethnical cleansing.
I'm sure the United Nations will intervene with... Uhm... A raised eyebrow. Unless someone vetoes that, too.

[Flawless Walruses]

I think it should be easy enough to get Turkey on board with Kurdish independence or autonomy if all of the Kurds in Turkey are allowed to leave or be moved into Kurdish territories in Iraq and Syria and all Kurdish claims to Turkey are relinquished in exchange for Kurdish Iraq and Syria being left alone.

The last time Turks accepted a plan like that it was the Assyrian Genocide. The final installment in the late-Ottoman trilogy.

Forced population transfer leads to mass death, life-long trauma, centuries-long irredentist conflicts, and lasting economic damage. Anatolia has seen a lot of it, as has South Asia, and neither was improved by the experience.

Ergodan is a megalomaniac, true, but anyone saner than Stalin is going to have objections to that.

ISIS is one of America's interests now. Fascinating.

Am I the only one who read that article and where it pointed out how the Kurds had teamed up with Assad to fight the FSA or what?

You're not the only one. The relationship between Assad and the YPG is like that of a married man and his unfaithful mistress. She'll be back, once the American high-roller tires of her. In fact, he just did...

[Pretty Much God]

Is anyone else really not surprised by this?
like...at all?

[Risottia]

No, they've been doing it for awhile by allying with Assad in a number of instances despite the US's stated opposition to the Assad regime. It even pointed out that they joined Assad's forces in the Battle of Aleppo.

I'm sure this quagmire is something that America should have continued to involve itself in for years to come though.

Yes, how horrible. Just appalling how the Kurds and the Syrian government decided they would be better off not fighting each other for a while and fighting ISIS instead.

Well, in Erdogan's eyes it was terrible. Imagine, secularists and Shiites teaming up to kill his best buddies.

[Pretty Much God]

Hey, look, a country is invading its neighbour, a UN member, with the declared purpose of ethnical cleansing.
I'm sure the United Nations will intervene with... Uhm... A raised eyebrow. Unless someone vetoes that, too.

A man with a communist flag believes refugee resettlement is ethnic cleasening? Frankly I'm shocked at how the alt-right's ideas have spread.

Yes, Turkey has never, ever, so much as consider Kurds to be subhuman degenerates. After all, they only massacred tens of thousands of Kurds at a time, and banned their language under punishment of imprisonment.

[Risottia]

Hey, look, a country is invading its neighbour, a UN member, with the declared purpose of ethnical cleansing.
I'm sure the United Nations will intervene with... Uhm... A raised eyebrow. Unless someone vetoes that, too.

A man with a communist flag believes refugee resettlement is ethnic cleasening? Frankly I'm shocked at how the alt-right's ideas have spread.

Refugee resettlement at gunpoint into a country by another country while kicking out the ethnic group that inhabited that area? Yes, I must admit that I'm clearly Mussolini for not buying that shit of yours and Erdogan's.

[Wallenburg]

Between Turkey murdering potentially hundreds of thousands of innocent people and a handful of US troops being at marginal risk, I'll take the latter option, yeah.

The Kurds are kinda scattered through the ME from my limited understanding. Some are in Syria, yes, but many also live in Iraq, which Turkey is not focused on as much at the moment. And the Kurds are an ethnic minority as well. I doubt either side wants a two-front battle, in which the Kurds would get stomped anyway. Soooo...where are the hundreds of thousands of Kurds? How many live in Syria?

There are about 1.6-2.5 million Syrian Kurds.

[Wallenburg]

A man with a communist flag believes refugee resettlement is ethnic cleasening? Frankly I'm shocked at how the alt-right's ideas have spread.

Refugee resettlement at gunpoint into a country by another country while kicking out the ethnic group that inhabited that area? Yes, I must admit that I'm clearly Mussolini for not buying that shit of yours and Erdogan's.

They're some puppet being used to call any criticism of Erdogan alt-right, don't take it personally.

[Pretty Much God]

Refugee resettlement at gunpoint into a country by another country while kicking out the ethnic group that inhabited that area? Yes, I must admit that I'm clearly Mussolini for not buying that shit of yours and Erdogan's.

They aren't kicking anybody out though. But I don't doubt you may have fascist sympathies. Many Italians in power and in general hold those sympathies. I can't be sure you aren't one until I know you better frankly.

bruh

[Khataiy]

A man with a communist flag believes refugee resettlement is ethnic cleasening? Frankly I'm shocked at how the alt-right's ideas have spread.

Refugee resettlement at gunpoint into a country by another country while kicking out the ethnic group that inhabited that area? Yes, I must admit that I'm clearly Mussolini for not buying that shit of yours and Erdogan's.

The overwhelming majority of "Rojava's" areas are ethnically Arab namely Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor.

[Flawless Walruses]

A man with a communist flag believes refugee resettlement is ethnic cleasening? Frankly I'm shocked at how the alt-right's ideas have spread.

Yes, Turkey has never, ever, so much as consider Kurds to be subhuman degenerates. After all, they only massacred tens of thousands of Kurds at a time, and banned their language under punishment of imprisonment.

Turkey was an irreproachable US ally during the decades when Turks were most forceful in persuading Kurds to be "Mountain Turks", and when the Turkish military routinely overturned results whenever their people voted "wrong".

Ergodan hasn't done anything 1% as bad, but he's taking 100x the criticism.

What could he possibly have done to offend so many powerful people?

(criticized Israel)
(supported the democratically elected option in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia)
(failed to overthrow Assad)
(defeated a coup attempt)
(bought Russian weapons)
(spoken with Trump)

I do think this outpouring of love for Kurds in the media is blatant concern-trolling, and that the crimes the West wants Ergodan punished for are not the ones many of his people want him punished for.

Resettlement in ones homeland does not equate to genocide. Not even in Amnesty International's dictionary.
Non-refoulment to a country where they would face a credible death or persecution doesn't come into it either, unless you believe the PKK are a threat to resettled refugees.

[Khataiy]

When is the fight against Iran in Syria coming? Erdogan sold Aleppo to them in 2016, and he gave Hama away in August, both sides should serve Syria's people in fighting the Iranian occupation in their country and the removal of the Bashar regime, the men involved in this fight are brothers of one another, and there is a strong chance Assad and the Iran's proxies will ultimately benefit from this military operation because of Erdogan's narrow sightedness and selfishness.