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Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which side you're sympathic towards?

Turkey
48
13%
Rojava/SDF
243
63%
Neither or unsure
92
24%
 
Total votes : 383

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Founded: Sep 24, 2018
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 am

The Glorious Turkish Army Is Combating Terrorism.
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Khataiy
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Khataiy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:10 am

Nakena wrote:
Florentiam wrote:
And that puzzles me. Assad is a dictator like Erdogan, how can he possibly allow another State to enter so batlanty and violate its sovereignty? Jeez, Turkey is literally invading you, US doesn't care and you don't raise a single word against it?


Supposedly Erdogan just wants to conquer a "strip" in northern Syria as buffer zone but chances are he will go for all the cake and grab the wholesome of it down to the Euphrates.

He won't advance beyond the zone, the war and its history have shown this, when Afrin was taken he didn't advance into Tel Rifaat or Menagh, and during Euphrates Shield little to no efforts were made to take Manbij. There are also rumours Assad and the IRGC are preparing to enter Raqqa and more parts of Deir ez-Zor, and Erdogan wouldn't stop that either. Erdogan's foot in Syria is limited by America and Russia.

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Kaystein
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Postby Kaystein » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:10 am

So it begins..
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Lost Memories
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lost Memories » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 am

The Kurds need their own nation.
Shame though that any externally enforced solution is going to create only more problems and tensions, we don't need a second Israel in that zone.
Which doesn't spell good for the Kurds, as it'll be hard for them to stand ground against bigger and more powerful nations, like Turkey.

Hope the Kurds will resist long enough to get their national status recognized.
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Khataiy
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Postby Khataiy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:15 am

Lost Memories wrote:The Kurds need their own nation.
Shame though that any externally enforced solution is going to create only more problems and tensions, we don't need a second Israel in that zone.
Which doesn't spell good for the Kurds, as it'll be hard for them to stand ground against bigger and more powerful nations, like Turkey.

Hope the Kurds will resist long enough to get their national status recognized.

Rojava isn't a sepratist movement they have made it very clear they have no intention of seperating from Syria.

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Gagium
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Postby Gagium » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:21 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
San Carlos Islands wrote:Meh. Could care less. Just glad American troops are coming home.

We are on the wrong side of the conflict

The point of withdrawing is so that we aren't in the conflict :eyebrow:
E

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Duhon
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:34 am

looks like every facet of american society is now specialized on selling out some facet of democracy -- concept and people alike -- upriver for a favor from some authoritarian or other

american government? look guys, we really need the goods on biden believe me! and while you're at it, why not every other democrat too?

american corporations? look guys, we really need the goods on the yuan or some shit believe me! keep those privileged eyeballs rolling towards us!

american people? look guys, we're just being inconsistent about this, but hey, at least you're not migrating here! have fun getting genocided! oh and fuck all y'all, believe us!
Last edited by Duhon on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:34 am

Kurds get fucked over once again and im sure we will be hearing all about a bunch of war crimes in the next few months with the Turks fucking slaughtering them.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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New Bremerton
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Bremerton » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:41 am

What an idiot move by Trump to order troops to just up and leave the de facto independent Kurdish Rojava state without warning to the mercy of the Turks, ISIS and Assad's forces. This coming from a president who also nearly betrayed the people of Afghanistan to the savage and medieval whims of the Taliban. Given his boorishness and propensity to lie, I prefer to judge him by his actions, not his words, and this was a really dumb thing to do, and is nothing short of a betrayal. Now Turkey seeks to flood northern Rojava with Arab refugees in order to undermine the Syrian Kurds' right to self-determination and completely destroy whatever semblance of a Kurdish state has managed to come into being. This is nothing less than ethnic cleansing, and I fear a genocide may follow shortly. The Kurds deserve better than this. They have already begun their reconquest of territory lost by the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI.

America should be arming the Syrian Kurdish Rojava state, not feeding it to the wolves, just as Russia has been arming the Assad regime and backing it with airstrikes. The Kurdish people will be even worse off than they were prior to 2011. I stand with the Kurds for the exact same reason I stand with Israel, Tibet, East Turkestan, Catalonia, Taiwan and Hong Kong. This is about self-determination for an embattled ethnic minority in their indigenous homeland. America's betrayal will not be forgotten.

At least Tulsi Gabbard's not that irresponsible. She is a close friend and ally of the Kurdish people, and she recognizes that defending a Kurdish state and defeating ISIS =/= overthrowing Assad and encouraging regime change wars. America should be encouraging a ceasefire along the Euphrates River between Assad and the YPG in a deal brokered between Russia and the United States, the real players behind the chessboard, and both countries can then proceed to apply pressure on Turkey to withdraw its forces from Syria to the benefit of both the Assad regime and the Kurds.

This move has done more to dent my opinion of Donald Trump than his numerous tweets about The Squad and the countless accusations leveled against him by the Democrats and the MSM. All of that domestic controversy pales in comparison to the countless lives that would be lost as a direct consequence of his betrayal. I'm actually genuinely disgusted with him. And if he can betray the Kurds, he can betray Hong Kong, all at the drop of a hat.

As for the racist, Islamofascist, genocidal state of Turkey, they should be expelled from NATO (which in turn should serve to further placate Russia, as Turkey is sandwiched between Syria to the south and Ukraine and Russian-occupied Crimea across the Black Sea to the north), diplomatic ties should be severed and economic sanctions should be imposed. Together with Iran and Saudi Arabia, they should be isolated and contained. To achieve this objective, detente with Russia needs to happen first. Turkey can be stopped if the United States and Russia are prepared to work together. While Russia is similarly bombing civilians in HTS (Hayat Tahrir al-Sham)-controlled Idlib province, we can still prevent Turkey from doing likewise in northern Syria and snuffing out the last remaining bastion of freedom and democracy in the form of the Kurdish Rojava state. A limited, token U.S. military presence in Rojava should be sufficient to deter Turkish aggression.

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:42 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Kurds get fucked over once again and im sure we will be hearing all about a bunch of war crimes in the next few months with the Turks fucking slaughtering them.


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Agarntrop
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Agarntrop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:46 am

Syria getting divided between two dictators, Assad and Erdo, as I predicted
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Dogmeat
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:47 am

Anyone else getting 70's flashbacks? What with an impeachable president dooming an ally with a withdrawal?

I think this means Jimmy Carter might be our next president...
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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:50 am

Khataiy wrote:
Lost Memories wrote:The Kurds need their own nation.
Shame though that any externally enforced solution is going to create only more problems and tensions, we don't need a second Israel in that zone.
Which doesn't spell good for the Kurds, as it'll be hard for them to stand ground against bigger and more powerful nations, like Turkey.

Hope the Kurds will resist long enough to get their national status recognized.

Rojava isn't a sepratist movement they have made it very clear they have no intention of seperating from Syria.


Doesn't Rojava wish for all of Syria to eventually become a federation similar to how Rojava is structured?
So while it isn't tecnical separatism, it's still something which goes counter the syrian national government.

There is also to take in mind that the Kurdish population isn't only in Syria, see Kurdistan.
As an enough distinct ethnic group, with their own culture, language etc, it's odd for them to be split over many different nations.
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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:50 am

New Bremerton wrote:What an idiot move by Trump to order troops to just up and leave the de facto independent Kurdish Rojava state without warning to the mercy of the Turks, ISIS and Assad's forces. This coming from a president who also nearly betrayed the people of Afghanistan to the savage and medieval whims of the Taliban. Given his boorishness and propensity to lie, I prefer to judge him by his actions, not his words, and this was a really dumb thing to do, and is nothing short of a betrayal. Now Turkey seeks to flood northern Rojava with Arab refugees in order to undermine the Syrian Kurds' right to self-determination and completely destroy whatever semblance of a Kurdish state has managed to come into being. This is nothing less than ethnic cleansing, and I fear a genocide may follow shortly. The Kurds deserve better than this. They have already begun their reconquest of territory lost by the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI.

America should be arming the Syrian Kurdish Rojava state, not feeding it to the wolves, just as Russia has been arming the Assad regime and backing it with airstrikes. The Kurdish people will be even worse off than they were prior to 2011. I stand with the Kurds for the exact same reason I stand with Israel, Tibet, East Turkestan, Catalonia, Taiwan and Hong Kong. This is about self-determination for an embattled ethnic minority in their indigenous homeland. America's betrayal will not be forgotten.

At least Tulsi Gabbard's not that irresponsible. She is a close friend and ally of the Kurdish people, and she recognizes that defending a Kurdish state and defeating ISIS =/= overthrowing Assad and encouraging regime change wars. America should be encouraging a ceasefire along the Euphrates River between Assad and the YPG in a deal brokered between Russia and the United States, the real players behind the chessboard, and both countries can then proceed to apply pressure on Turkey to withdraw its forces from Syria to the benefit of both the Assad regime and the Kurds.

This move has done more to dent my opinion of Donald Trump than his numerous tweets about The Squad and the countless accusations leveled against him by the Democrats and the MSM. All of that domestic controversy pales in comparison to the countless lives that would be lost as a direct consequence of his betrayal. I'm actually genuinely disgusted with him. And if he can betray the Kurds, he can betray Hong Kong, all at the drop of a hat.

As for the racist, Islamofascist, genocidal state of Turkey, they should be expelled from NATO (which in turn should serve to further placate Russia, as Turkey is sandwiched between Syria to the south and Ukraine and Russian-occupied Crimea across the Black Sea to the north), diplomatic ties should be severed and economic sanctions should be imposed. Together with Iran and Saudi Arabia, they should be isolated and contained. To achieve this objective, detente with Russia needs to happen first. Turkey can be stopped if the United States and Russia are prepared to work together. While Russia is similarly bombing civilians in HTS (Hayat Tahrir al-Sham)-controlled Idlib province, we can still prevent Turkey from doing likewise in northern Syria and snuffing out the last remaining bastion of freedom and democracy in the form of the Kurdish Rojava state. A limited, token U.S. military presence in Rojava should be sufficient to deter Turkish aggression.

Rojava is far from a good state. Rojava persecutes Arabs within itself, the whole point of Ba’ath is secularism
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:51 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The Glorious Turkish Army Is Combating Terrorism.

What a cretinous analogy. Helping ISIS and destroying the only hope of true democracy in Syria and the end of tyranny is not 'combatting terrorism'. It is quite the opposite, it is terrorism. Erdogan is a terrorist and neo-ottomanism is a fundamentally terroristic ideology.
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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:52 am

Major-Tom wrote:
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Turkey has full rights to do this, as Rojava continues its persecution of Arabs. I’m hoping Assad comes out on top at the end of all this, he’s definitely least of all the evils in this conflict


Sure, the Rojava government has a bad track record in regards to killing of opponents, many of whom are Arab, but to take that and suddenly leap to the conclusion that "Assad is the most moral here" is asinine. Turkey is descending into an authoritarian hellscape, sure, and the Rojava government may not be the trendsetter of human rights that many would like to believe, granted, but Assad is a megalomaniacal tyrant who frequently slaughters his own people.

Assad is literally the last hope of secularism in the region
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:54 am

Dogmeat wrote:Anyone else getting 70's flashbacks? What with an impeachable president dooming an ally with a withdrawal?

I think this means Jimmy Carter might be our next president...


1970s? lol there wouldn't be a respite to this trumpery even if trump goes
you americans will be known for selling democracy upriver at every authoritarian's fucking munich
only you're not even neville fucking chamberlains, wanting peace at any price and failing to get it

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Kyria
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Postby Kyria » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:55 am

Well, this is a most saddening and utterly despicable development. Unfortunately, I can only offer my best wishes to the Kurds in their fight for freedom. I do believe Turkey has the right to nationhood, but Erdogan is making that really difficult to justify. Hopefully the Kemalists oust him before it’s too late.
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Swasal
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Postby Swasal » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:56 am

I feel there might be some borderline genocidal shit going down in Syria soon enough after the Turkish beat the Kurdish troops with sheer numbers and technology. My heart bleeds for the long-suffering Kurds but sadly there is no reasoning with dictators such as Mr. Erdogan, especially after the World Police became the World Licensing Authority too. I find it unimaginable that Nato and the US basically endorsed Turkish invasion of a sovereign country due to "legitimate security concerns". As if Turkey hasn't been holding Apo in what is basically solitary confinement for 17 years on mostly trumped-up charges of terrorism (not the kind defined under international law, the kind that says if you oppose us you're a terrorist). Well, this is the world we live in.

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Negarakita
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Postby Negarakita » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:04 am

This is a good thing, the YPG have been involved in supporting PKK terrorist attacks in Turkey for too long. Love that the child soldiers cum opium smugglers of the PKK have become poster children for democracy in the middle east, but it will be great to see the AnComs shut up about their socialist paradise where gay children get to be pressed into military service too. I just hope that the campaign will be carried out in a moral manner and without the targetting of civilians that the PKK are fond of.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:11 am

Gravlen wrote:
Florentiam wrote:
And that puzzles me. Assad is a dictator like Erdogan, how can he possibly allow another State to cross your borders and violate your sovereignty so batlanty? Jeez, Turkey is literally invading you, US doesn't care and you don't raise a single word against it?

The territory in question is already far outside Syrian government control.

This map is from march, but the front lines haven't move significantly since then. The attacks now are happening in the north-eastern part of the map.

Here's a live-updated map of the situation.

Here’s a more updated map from October
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:18 am

Agarntrop wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The Glorious Turkish Army Is Combating Terrorism.

What a cretinous analogy. Helping ISIS and destroying the only hope of true democracy in Syria and the end of tyranny is not 'combatting terrorism'. It is quite the opposite, it is terrorism. Erdogan is a terrorist and neo-ottomanism is a fundamentally terroristic ideology.

Nobody wants neo-ottomanism, all we want is peace and security of the region.Assad and Turkey should sit at the table for peace

I will not answer racist rhetoric

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Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:19 am

Negarakita wrote:This is a good thing, the YPG have been involved in supporting PKK terrorist attacks in Turkey for too long. Love that the child soldiers cum opium smugglers of the PKK have become poster children for democracy in the middle east, but it will be great to see the AnComs shut up about their socialist paradise where gay children get to be pressed into military service too. I just hope that the campaign will be carried out in a moral manner and without the targetting of civilians that the PKK are fond of.

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but you are right about one thing, Rojava is far from being a good state. It’s continued support of terrorism, persecution of Arabs, and horrible human rights record often goes ignored by the far left which holds it up as the poster child of successful communism (this really says more about the far-left than Rojava imo)
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:24 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
Negarakita wrote:This is a good thing, the YPG have been involved in supporting PKK terrorist attacks in Turkey for too long. Love that the child soldiers cum opium smugglers of the PKK have become poster children for democracy in the middle east, but it will be great to see the AnComs shut up about their socialist paradise where gay children get to be pressed into military service too. I just hope that the campaign will be carried out in a moral manner and without the targetting of civilians that the PKK are fond of.

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but you are right about one thing, Rojava is far from being a good state. It’s continued support of terrorism, persecution of Arabs, and horrible human rights record often goes ignored by the far left which holds it up as the poster child of successful communism (this really says more about the far-left than Rojava imo)

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:25 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:What a cretinous analogy. Helping ISIS and destroying the only hope of true democracy in Syria and the end of tyranny is not 'combatting terrorism'. It is quite the opposite, it is terrorism. Erdogan is a terrorist and neo-ottomanism is a fundamentally terroristic ideology.

Nobody wants neo-ottomanism, all we want is peace and security of the region.Assad and Turkey should sit at the table for peace
Image

Most of the people living in that Rojava territory of this imaginary Turkmeneli are Kurds and want nothing to do with Turkey. The same thing is true on the other side of the border actually.
Last edited by Heloin on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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