Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

[Rojava Free State]

a kurdish state will not be formed.

^ This.

Why betray an old and useful ally (Turkey), for the pleasure of constructing another Middle Eastern ethno-state within some semi-arbitrary lines on a map?

The Shabak, Turkmen and Yadzidis are not keen on becoming minorities under Kurdish rule any more than the Kurds are keen on being Turkish. Same reason. Constructing a modus vivendi in Kurdistan will be just as challenging and far more expensive than constructing it within extant internationally recognised states.

Turkey is an enemy as far as I'm concerned: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence ... 35d1d29e18

[Loben The 2nd]

Almost like it’s just lip service, and now that the Kurds have been used to their potential, people don’t care about them.

Yes, we are part of the people who enabled the genocide, we're genocide enablers. We're no longer the country of freedom due to this we're the country of selfishness who are pieces of shit.

who died and made you the spokesman for all of America?

[Nakena]

It happened before though in South Vietnam.

That was brutal political purges. Still bad but not like the Holocaust.

Erdogan making a Holocauster?

[Rojava Free State]

Yes, we are part of the people who enabled the genocide, we're genocide enablers. We're no longer the country of freedom due to this we're the country of selfishness who are pieces of shit.

who died and made you the spokesman for all of America?

Is it not true? We basically are allowing our allies to die. That makes us backstabbers

[Nakena]

It happened before though in South Vietnam.

That was brutal political purges. Still bad but not like the Holocaust.

Hundreds of thousend of people got killed or were driven out of Vietnam. Barely making it to the ships of the USN Fleet and much more dying on the sea later as so-called boat people when they fled the communst opporession of the Le Duan Regime.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

What an idiot move by Trump to order troops to just up and leave the de facto independent Kurdish Rojava state without warning to the mercy of the Turks, ISIS and Assad's forces. This coming from a president who also nearly betrayed the people of Afghanistan to the savage and medieval whims of the Taliban. Given his boorishness and propensity to lie, I prefer to judge him by his actions, not his words, and this was a really dumb thing to do, and is nothing short of a betrayal. Now Turkey seeks to flood northern Rojava with Arab refugees in order to undermine the Syrian Kurds' right to self-determination and completely destroy whatever semblance of a Kurdish state has managed to come into being. This is nothing less than ethnic cleansing, and I fear a genocide may follow shortly. The Kurds deserve better than this. They have already begun their reconquest of territory lost by the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI.

America should be arming the Syrian Kurdish Rojava state, not feeding it to the wolves, just as Russia has been arming the Assad regime and backing it with airstrikes. The Kurdish people will be even worse off than they were prior to 2011. I stand with the Kurds for the exact same reason I stand with Israel, Tibet, East Turkestan, Catalonia, Taiwan and Hong Kong. This is about self-determination for an embattled ethnic minority in their indigenous homeland. America's betrayal will not be forgotten.

At least Tulsi Gabbard's not that irresponsible. She is a close friend and ally of the Kurdish people, and she recognizes that defending a Kurdish state and defeating ISIS =/= overthrowing Assad and encouraging regime change wars. America should be encouraging a ceasefire along the Euphrates River between Assad and the YPG in a deal brokered between Russia and the United States, the real players behind the chessboard, and both countries can then proceed to apply pressure on Turkey to withdraw its forces from Syria to the benefit of both the Assad regime and the Kurds.

This move has done more to dent my opinion of Donald Trump than his numerous tweets about The Squad and the countless accusations leveled against him by the Democrats and the MSM. All of that domestic controversy pales in comparison to the countless lives that would be lost as a direct consequence of his betrayal. I'm actually genuinely disgusted with him. And if he can betray the Kurds, he can betray Hong Kong, all at the drop of a hat.

As for the racist, Islamofascist, genocidal state of Turkey, they should be expelled from NATO (which in turn should serve to further placate Russia, as Turkey is sandwiched between Syria to the south and Ukraine and Russian-occupied Crimea across the Black Sea to the north), diplomatic ties should be severed and economic sanctions should be imposed. Together with Iran and Saudi Arabia, they should be isolated and contained. To achieve this objective, detente with Russia needs to happen first. Turkey can be stopped if the United States and Russia are prepared to work together. While Russia is similarly bombing civilians in HTS (Hayat Tahrir al-Sham)-controlled Idlib province, we can still prevent Turkey from doing likewise in northern Syria and snuffing out the last remaining bastion of freedom and democracy in the form of the Kurdish Rojava state. A limited, token U.S. military presence in Rojava should be sufficient to deter Turkish aggression.

Rojava is far from a good state. Rojava persecutes Arabs within itself, the whole point of Ba’ath is secularism

I don't think so:
"93. Though allegations of “ethnic cleansing” continued to be received during the period under review, the Commission found no evidence to substantiate claims that YPG or SDF forces ever targeted Arab communities on the basis of ethnicity, nor that YPG cantonal authorities systematically sought to change the demographic composition of territories under their control through the commission of violations directed against any particular ethnic group."
Source: https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/sy ... march-2017

Rami Adulrahman: "There’s no “ethnic cleansing” in Til Abyad against the Turkmen and Arabic population. If the YPG would have wanted to expel Arabs and Turkmens, it would have done so already during the liberation of the villages. Nevertheless, it happens that – in case IS has been expelled – inhabitants are being asked to not go back to their villages immediately because of mine danger. In some villages, like in Dogan or Al Bajela, the inhabitants were prevented from returning to the villages for a longer period of time because IS fighters were still expected to be in the villages."
Source: https://www.gfbv.de/en/news/theres-no-e ... tion-7568/

[Confederate Norway]

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I just want our troops out of Syria. I do not want an Iraq or Afghanistan 2.0. Also why are people so concerned about Rojava/Kurds than the rest of Syria? Don't other Syrians lives matter equally to the Kurds?

They do. However, Turkey has demonstrated no desire to genocide Syrian Arabs, so that's not exactly an immediate issue here.

I disagree, If that were true they would be for U.S involvement before the Kurds where under threat from Turkey. It is clear they value Kurds more than majority of Syrians in the country.

The kurds are split across 4 different nations (Turkey, Syria, Irak, Iran), or atleast used to be, the ones in Turkey already got cropped.

So while both had to deal with the syrian civil war, and the isis trying to sneak in the while, their condition as populations isn't the same, the kurds are more vulnerable.
Specifically now, the news being discussed is about Turkey creating a "terror-free zone" inside kurdish territory, by very democratic means of bombing, so, for what concerns the news being discussed, the kurds are the ones drawing the short end of the stick, in multiple ways, which leads to them being pitiable.

I still do not understand why the people who were against U.S involvement in Syria are now all of a sudden supporting it do to a minority group in Syria being under threat. They care more about the small amount of Kurds well being more than the majority of Syrians. Even though the Kurds are being more oppressed than the Syrians it would make more sense to help the majority of Syrians being oppressed rather than just focusing on helping the minority of Kurds in Syria.

[Loben The 2nd]

who died and made you the spokesman for all of America?

Is it not true? We basically are allowing our allies to die. That makes us backstabbers

Dont think of em as Allies.

think of them as.......Landskneckt.

[Nakena]

who died and made you the spokesman for all of America?

Your words on this don't matter as you're part of the people who killed the American Dream. You're a traitor-not treason that'd be mental to suggest, just very immoral and cruel and spitting in the face of those who died in WW2 in Europe and the Holocaust.

Which genocide though?

[Loben The 2nd]

who died and made you the spokesman for all of America?

Your words on this don't matter as you're part of the people who killed the American Dream. You're a traitor-not treason that'd be mental to suggest, just very immoral and cruel and spitting in the face of those who died in WW2 in Europe and the Holocaust.

excuse me?

for the record the shit on my boot is worth more then some stalinist kurds.

[Flawless Walruses]

^ This.

Why betray an old and useful ally (Turkey), for the pleasure of constructing another Middle Eastern ethno-state within some semi-arbitrary lines on a map?

The Shabak, Turkmen and Yadzidis are not keen on becoming minorities under Kurdish rule any more than the Kurds are keen on being Turkish. Same reason. Constructing a modus vivendi in Kurdistan will be just as challenging and far more expensive than constructing it within extant internationally recognised states.

Turkey is an enemy as far as I'm concerned: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence ... 35d1d29e18

The testimony has been reported by two Kurdish news agencies, the Syrian-Kurdish Harwar News Agency (ANHA) based in Rojava, and the Turkish-Kurdish Ajansa Nûçeyan a Firatê (Firat News Agency or ANF News). The latter’s head office is based in Amsterdam.

I have no trouble believing there is fire under that smoke, and I wouldn't turn my back on Ergodan. But what's to do?

Saudi, Qatar, UAE, Jordan and even Israel have been caught playing footsie with Islamists for petty advantage at different times.

And then there's the CIA's ferocious but failed attempts to prevent Congress from banning them from transferring funds to ISIS and Al Qaeda.
https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-re ... terrorists

Don't give any of them money, and keep close tabs on what they do with the weapons.

[Loben The 2nd]

EL it wouldnt be proper for a politician to call me a piece of shit now would it?

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Your words on this don't matter as you're part of the people who killed the American Dream. You're a traitor-not treason that'd be mental to suggest, just very immoral and cruel and spitting in the face of those who died in WW2 in Europe and the Holocaust.

excuse me?

for the record the shit on my boot is worth more then some stalinist kurds.

Stalin would call these libertarian socialists "social fascists", so to call them "stalinist" is not only wrong, its laughable at best, especially since Rojava practices a semi-direct democracy modelled on grassroots principles, something repulsive to marxist-leninists.

[Loben The 2nd]

the first civilians have perished

and Rojava didnt evac its civilians.

how morbidly predictable.

[Torrocca]

It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

[Loben The 2nd]

excuse me?

for the record the shit on my boot is worth more then some stalinist kurds.

Point proven.

youre not going to get far in your political career if you call people online pieces of shit.

[Chestaan]

excuse me?

for the record the shit on my boot is worth more then some stalinist kurds.

Stalin would call these libertarian socialists "social fascists", so to call them "stalinist" is not only wrong, its laughable at best, especially since Rojava practices a semi-direct democracy modelled on grassroots principles, something repulsive to marxist-leninists.

If anything, Erdogan is much more like Stalin and Stalin probably would support the crushing of the Kurds in Rojava.

[Loben The 2nd]

It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

>syrian democratic forces

they lost, handedly.

[Chestaan]

It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

>syrian democratic forces

they lost, handedly.

Last I checked they had sent IS packing.

[Loben The 2nd]

EL it wouldnt be proper for a politician to call me a piece of shit now would it?

I'm more using it symbolically though this does all piss me off. Genocide is the war crime that I won't do politician-speak for. I have to draw the line somewhere.

uh-huh.

what could a portland city councilmen do?

[Loben The 2nd]

>syrian democratic forces

they lost, handedly.

Last I checked they had sent IS packing.

after losing to the people they were originally fighting, then again a few barrel bombs and SU-25s tend to do that.

[Chestaan]

It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

Here's hoping the PKK step up their activities in Turkey.

[Loben The 2nd]

It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

Here's hoping the PKK step up their activities in Turkey.

Encouraging terrorist acts already?

[Loben The 2nd]

uh-huh.

what could a portland city councilmen do?

Not much honestly. Symbolic condemnation event and symbolic stuff but I can be angry.

considering your tone there is anger and whatever this is.

[Flawless Walruses]

It's going to be a literal fucking genocide. Fuck Turkey's Fascistic regime for doing this. Fuck Trump for opening the floodgates. The people of Northern Syria, Rojava, and the SDF deserve far better than this fate they've been condemned to. 11,000 of them didn't die fighting against ISIS's reign of terror for this shit.

Here's hoping the PKK step up their activities in Turkey.

This is why the Turks should never trust America again.

Seriously, the PKK's choice of tactics within Turkey have been nothing but counterproductive for the people they claim to represent.