Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

[SD_Film Artists]

SNIP

I notice no one bothered to get Assad's opinion on this supposed ceasefire and considering there are now Syrian troops in northern Syria, and that one part of the Northern Syrian border has remained in Assad hands for most of the war it's likely that this ceasefire isn't going to mean anything.

In order to have an unbroken safe zone that extends all the way to the Iraqi border would require clearing out a large portion of land in Northeastern Syria that has remained in Assad's hands for most of the war.

Turkey is either going to have to work with Assad, which they have refused too, or militarily remove Assad and in this case break the ceasefire.


And Assad isn't going to be too happy with Turkey considering they want to turn the supposed Safe Zone into a Turkish proxy state and fill it full of all the refugees who Assad loyalists will see as traitors.

All in all it's just more desperation and doubling down.

I get the feeling that if Assad hasn't acted now then he probably never will at least for the upcoming days and weeks; either because he doesn't want the inevitable losses of fighting the Turks or because the Kemlin won't like it- or both. That also means that the Kurds have sold their independence for nothing. What's the point of being a protectorate if you're not protected?

[Nea Byzantia]

Because our NATO allies no longer have functioning armies, navies and air forces. It's all correct what you said but in clown world, nations declare victory when they disarm and act like they have moral justice on their side when they get blackmailed with refugees.

And most of those nations are the nations of Western Europe.

We wouldn't need the Turks if our other allies weren't functionally worthless outside Poland, Britain and the Baltics.

Greece has actually kept their NATO funding within the limits, their military budget is 2.8 of their GDP.... (It helps that their GDP is pathetic), Greece is actually more like the nations you listed above in that they actually are trying to maintain their military, partly because they hate Turkey and partly because giving people employment in the military is still technically employment.

So your argument doesn't apply to Greece. If anything they're trying to arm up because now they see Turkey as threatening their interests.

Agreed, however, the main issue, with Greece, in terms of a War is manpower and population (Greece has approximately 10 million people living there; Turkey has approximately 80 million). Equipment-wise and training-wise, we're about equal; but the Turks would just overwhelm us with numbers, in the long run. The entire NATO defence system is designed with the idea that America will come to the rescue at some point. If not, we'll just get steamrolled eventually, without help from the United States or others. Sometimes, it doesn't come down to equipment, it comes down to numbers and the ability to wage war for an extended period of time.

[Nea Byzantia]

SNIP

I notice no one bothered to get Assad's opinion on this supposed ceasefire and considering there are now Syrian troops in northern Syria, and that one part of the Northern Syrian border has remained in Assad hands for most of the war it's likely that this ceasefire isn't going to mean anything.

In order to have an unbroken safe zone that extends all the way to the Iraqi border would require clearing out a large portion of land in Northeastern Syria that has remained in Assad's hands for most of the war.

Turkey is either going to have to work with Assad, which they have refused too, or militarily remove Assad and in this case break the ceasefire.

Turkey is already getting what it wants; so why risk destabilizing everything again by going to war with Assad? Its not in their (Turkey's) interests to do so, and the Turks know it. They will most probably seek to come to some sort of an understanding with the Syrian Government, once the Kurds (Rojava, SDF) are dealt with; with Russia in the background as mediator (Moscow also has a vested interest in stabilizing the region given its proximity to both Syria and Turkey). After some 8 years of civil war and strife, I think most of the regional players are eager to see some stabilization in Syria; the only ones still looking to cobble together continued chaos are the Americans, of course.

This is why Washington used (or rather, TRIED to use) the Syrian Kurds in the first place; to continue causing chaos in Syria after the defeat of ISIS. Make no mistake, Washington's goal in Syria was always, and still is, the removal of Assad. Only problem is, they're running out of options to make that happen - because just like every other time- the Kurds have turned out to be useless. Hence why America is leaving them to die, once again.

Uncle Sam is actually very bad at playing politics in the Middle East and the Balkans (see shitshows in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and the former Yugoslavia), because it fundamentally has no understanding of the region and tha players within; and, also, its hands are tied by certain special interests who wield tremendous influence in Washington. I think Trump's instincts in wanting to extricate America from the labyrinthian mess, are sound, but I think he will ultimately be blocked from doing so, by aforementioned special interests. It remains to be seen how this drama will play out; but I think America is running out of options in Syria, in terms of affecting the outcome, and it should get out of there as soon as possible. Of course, I'm not the only one who thinks this. Ask any normal, sane American.

[Miami Shores]

I am strongly against Donnie's betrayal of the Kurds. I think Kurdistan would be an oil rich nation state with a powerful military like Israel's and a US ally, see I can strongly disagree with Donnie.

[Samudera Darussalam]

I am strongly against Donnie's betrayal of the Kurds. I think Kurdistan would be an oil rich nation state with a powerful military like Israel's and a US ally, see I can strongly disagree with Donnie.

None says any Trump supporters can't disagree with him.

I notice no one bothered to get Assad's opinion on this supposed ceasefire and considering there are now Syrian troops in northern Syria, and that one part of the Northern Syrian border has remained in Assad hands for most of the war it's likely that this ceasefire isn't going to mean anything.

In order to have an unbroken safe zone that extends all the way to the Iraqi border would require clearing out a large portion of land in Northeastern Syria that has remained in Assad's hands for most of the war.

Turkey is either going to have to work with Assad, which they have refused too, or militarily remove Assad and in this case break the ceasefire.

Turkey is already getting what it wants; so why risk destabilizing everything again by going to war with Assad? Its not in their (Turkey's) interests to do so, and the Turks know it. They will most probably seek to come to some sort of an understanding with the Syrian Government, once the Kurds (Rojava, SDF) are dealt with; with Russia in the background as mediator (Moscow also has a vested interest in stabilizing the region given its proximity to both Syria and Turkey). After some 8 years of civil war and strife, I think most of the regional players are eager to see some stabilization in Syria; the only ones still looking to cobble together continued chaos are the Americans, of course.

This is why Washington used (or rather, TRIED to use) the Syrian Kurds in the first place; to continue causing chaos in Syria after the defeat of ISIS. Make no mistake, Washington's goal in Syria was always, and still is, the removal of Assad. Only problem is, they're running out of options to make that happen - because just like every other time- the Kurds have turned out to be useless. Hence why America is leaving them to die, once again.

Uncle Sam is actually very bad at playing politics in the Middle East and the Balkans (see shitshows in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and the former Yugoslavia), because it fundamentally has no understanding of the region and tha players within; and, also, its hands are tied by certain special interests who wield tremendous influence in Washington. I think Trump's instincts in wanting to extricate America from the labyrinthian mess, are sound, but I think he will ultimately be blocked from doing so, by aforementioned special interests. It remains to be seen how this drama will play out; but I think America is running out of options in Syria, in terms of affecting the outcome, and it should get out of there as soon as possible. Of course, I'm not the only one who thinks this. Ask any normal, sane American.

Agreed. I also think America usually has no fundamental understanding about regions, primarily in the Mid East that it wants to meddle in, hence crazy stuffs happened.

[Duhon]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

[Bear Stearns]

I am strongly against Donnie's betrayal of the Kurds. I think Kurdistan would be an oil rich nation state with a powerful military like Israel's and a US ally, see I can strongly disagree with Donnie.

None says any Trump supporters can't disagree with him.

On this site people kind of do, given that the common line is that Trump supporters are brainwashed and worship him as a god.

[Costa Fierro]

Because our NATO allies no longer have functioning armies, navies and air forces. It's all correct what you said but in clown world, nations declare victory when they disarm and act like they have moral justice on their side when they get blackmailed with refugees. We wouldn't need the Turks if our other allies weren't functionally worthless outside Poland, Britain and the Baltics. NATO has never been about human rights or democracy. Don't make me laugh. We backed coups in Greece and Turkey. We supported the crypto-fascists during the years of lead in Italy and shady political disappearances in other parts of Europe. Your naive view of what the role of a military alliance based around mutual defense and coalition warfare is not conducive to coming correct conclusions.I added a picture so you can understand just who Uncle Sam is :^)

Outside of not caring about democracy, most of what you said is incorrect. Most of the countries covered by NATO are either a) capable of funding efficient, well trained, and well armed militaries without needing to meet NATO budget requirements (which are still based on a period when conscription was en vogue) and b) Turkey's strategic value is not based on the alleged uselessness of Europe. Turkey was admitted to NATO because of its position close to the former Soviet Union, hence why US nuclear missiles are still based in Turkey. This not only gives the US a strategic advantage, it also gave them an additional and valuable ally that borders the Middle East.

Turkey's NATO membership and good relations with the West has allowed it to build up significant military personnel, equipment, and weapons that have transformed it into a regional power.

[Wallenburg]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

Who could have predicted this? Well and truly, this came way out of left field. Nobody saw this coming, I assure you.

[Sovaal]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

My family has been saving the good stuff for decades for this exact moment. From parent to child, it has been passed, for this specific date in particular.

[Risottia]

And this is why the EU countries should send their troops to the EU-Turkey borders in Thrace and on the Cyprus front:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50103605
President Erdogan dismissed reports of continuing clashes on Friday as "misinformation" but international news media recorded explosions in Ras al-Ain during the morning.

Turkey can't be trusted.

[Nakena]

And this is why the EU countries should send their troops to the EU-Turkey borders in Thrace and on the Cyprus front:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50103605
President Erdogan dismissed reports of continuing clashes on Friday as "misinformation" but international news media recorded explosions in Ras al-Ain during the morning.

Turkey can't be trusted.

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

[The East Marches II]

And this is why the EU countries should send their troops to the EU-Turkey borders in Thrace and on the Cyprus front:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50103605
President Erdogan dismissed reports of continuing clashes on Friday as "misinformation" but international news media recorded explosions in Ras al-Ain during the morning.

Turkey can't be trusted.

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

Truly ironic. That was an excellent joke he told. I had a very great laugh as I am sure the gentlemen in Ankara did. I wonder if Risottia's sort in the EU will apologize for selling them out to bankers.

Because our NATO allies no longer have functioning armies, navies and air forces. It's all correct what you said but in clown world, nations declare victory when they disarm and act like they have moral justice on their side when they get blackmailed with refugees. We wouldn't need the Turks if our other allies weren't functionally worthless outside Poland, Britain and the Baltics. NATO has never been about human rights or democracy. Don't make me laugh. We backed coups in Greece and Turkey. We supported the crypto-fascists during the years of lead in Italy and shady political disappearances in other parts of Europe. Your naive view of what the role of a military alliance based around mutual defense and coalition warfare is not conducive to coming correct conclusions.I added a picture so you can understand just who Uncle Sam is :^)

Outside of not caring about democracy, most of what you said is incorrect. Most of the countries covered by NATO are either a) capable of funding efficient, well trained, and well armed militaries without needing to meet NATO budget requirements (which are still based on a period when conscription was en vogue) and b) Turkey's strategic value is not based on the alleged uselessness of Europe. Turkey was admitted to NATO because of its position close to the former Soviet Union, hence why US nuclear missiles are still based in Turkey. This not only gives the US a strategic advantage, it also gave them an additional and valuable ally that borders the Middle East.

Turkey's NATO membership and good relations with the West has allowed it to build up significant military personnel, equipment, and weapons that have transformed it into a regional power.

Capability my friend and willingness are two separate catagories. Their equipment readiness rates are despair inducing, their training mediocre to non-existent and some nations don't even have properly functioning radios. The key trick of the Euro types is to cut funding and claim the same level of paper strength, while hollowing out capability. One need only look at the Eurofighter spare parts situation as an example, or the amount of German tanks actually working. It's pathetic really. Most pan-European projects on arms have turned out subpar equipment with awful in-readiness rates. Paper soldiers don't beat Ivan's T-72s.

That's why Risottia's suggestion is both hilarious and laughable. The only troops the EU really has are Polish or from the Baltics. The rest have let the rot run so deep their strongest members can't even beat up Libya without begging for help. They've nothing to send! Such tough talk when they won't put their money where it matters. Unlike Risottia, the EU leadership doesn't even talk a tough game. They just roll over to Mr. Erdogan and pay him.

[Nakena]

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

Truly ironic. That was an excellent joke he told. I had a very great laugh as I am sure the gentlemen in Ankara did. I wonder if Risottia's sort in the EU will apologize for selling them out to bankers.

Yeah most definetively no good candidate for the NSG Peace Prize around this season thats for sure. Oh wait. It has been abolished. Because some people can't bear what happened to it the last time. Unbearable. Terrible. Another institution from the halcyon days of left-wing cultural hegemony melted away under the heat of climate change as BLOODY SUMMER has been extended ad infinitum.

No peace in our time. No Prizes anymore for anyone.

Let the Dogs of War be unleashed.

[Phoenicaea]

^the regimes in russia (and throught their syrian regent), turkey, and their ‘moderate’ associates in europe and america agree upon, simul stabunt simul cadent.

in regards of us who sit, grandsons and history books will say about the genocide of syrians, and kurds then, not even for dish of lentils yet for servile pleasure to hail.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Truly ironic. That was an excellent joke he told. I had a very great laugh as I am sure the gentlemen in Ankara did. I wonder if Risottia's sort in the EU will apologize for selling them out to bankers.

Yeah most definetively no good candidate for the NSG Peace Prize around this season thats for sure. Oh wait. It has been abolished. Because some people can't bear what happened to it the last time. Unbearable. Terrible. Another institution from the halcyon days of left-wing cultural hegemony melted away under the heat of climate change as BLOODY SUMMER has been extended ad infinitum.

No peace in our time. No Prizes anymore for anyone.

Let the Dogs of War be unleashed.

On second thought, let's not.

[Arachkya]

Makes me miss the Akkadians.

[Loben The 2nd]

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

Truly ironic. That was an excellent joke he told. I had a very great laugh as I am sure the gentlemen in Ankara did. I wonder if Risottia's sort in the EU will apologize for selling them out to bankers.

Outside of not caring about democracy, most of what you said is incorrect. Most of the countries covered by NATO are either a) capable of funding efficient, well trained, and well armed militaries without needing to meet NATO budget requirements (which are still based on a period when conscription was en vogue) and b) Turkey's strategic value is not based on the alleged uselessness of Europe. Turkey was admitted to NATO because of its position close to the former Soviet Union, hence why US nuclear missiles are still based in Turkey. This not only gives the US a strategic advantage, it also gave them an additional and valuable ally that borders the Middle East.

Turkey's NATO membership and good relations with the West has allowed it to build up significant military personnel, equipment, and weapons that have transformed it into a regional power.

Capability my friend and willingness are two separate catagories. Their equipment readiness rates are despair inducing, their training mediocre to non-existent and some nations don't even have properly functioning radios. The key trick of the Euro types is to cut funding and claim the same level of paper strength, while hollowing out capability. One need only look at the Eurofighter spare parts situation as an example, or the amount of German tanks actually working. It's pathetic really. Most pan-European projects on arms have turned out subpar equipment with awful in-readiness rates. Paper soldiers don't beat Ivan's T-72s.

That's why Risottia's suggestion is both hilarious and laughable. The only troops the EU really has are Polish or from the Baltics. The rest have let the rot run so deep their strongest members can't even beat up Libya without begging for help. They've nothing to send! Such tough talk when they won't put their money where it matters. Unlike Risottia, the EU leadership doesn't even talk a tough game. They just roll over to Mr. Erdogan and pay him.

cCc

[Maqkaradj]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

Sooooo... pretty normal stuff for a member of NATO?

[Risottia]

And this is why the EU countries should send their troops to the EU-Turkey borders in Thrace and on the Cyprus front:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50103605
President Erdogan dismissed reports of continuing clashes on Friday as "misinformation" but international news media recorded explosions in Ras al-Ain during the morning.

Turkey can't be trusted.

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

No, I want the whole bloody EU to stop Turkey from invading Syria, supporting IS and conducting an ethnical cleansing against the Kurds. I see you have a problem with the idea of not invading other countries or not supporting IS or not cleansing an ethnicity from their homeland.

[Risottia]

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

Truly ironic. That was an excellent joke he told. I had a very great laugh as I am sure the gentlemen in Ankara did. I wonder if Risottia's sort in the EU will apologize for selling them out to bankers.

Exactly, how did "my sort" "sell" anyone to the "bankers"?
Seriously. Provide a quote of me reading "sell Greece to the bankers" or be silent.

[Mettaton-EX]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

Sooooo... pretty normal stuff for a member of NATO?

doesn't mean we should accept it

[Page]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

Ah, white phosphorus, the chemical weapon used by America, Israel, and now Turkey - the good guys.

[Samudera Darussalam]

some people want a War to have [INSERT BUZZWORD] feels against the evil country of Turkey be satisfied. The same Greece whoses austerity you supported you want now to fight against the Turkish Republic?

No, I want the whole bloody EU to stop Turkey from invading Syria, supporting IS and conducting an ethnical cleansing against the Kurds. I see you have a problem with the idea of not invading other countries or not supporting IS or not cleansing an ethnicity from their homeland.

I'm not trying to be Turkey's advocate here, and I don't even support the country for what they are doing now, but Turkey seems to think many Kurdish groups as separatists. I guess it's understandable when you are looking from their perspective as why they don't feel safe with the presence of Kurdish militias at their southern borders, though I don't think everything should be solved through violence as what the Turks are doing now.

Sooooo... pretty normal stuff for a member of NATO?

doesn't mean we should accept it

True.

[Rojava Free State]

so apparently the kurds are now getting caked with white fucking phosphorus
anyone stateside breaking the champagne and dancing happy jigs on incipient genocide yet? for you guys knew this would happen

Ah, white phosphorus, the chemical weapon used by America, Israel, and now Turkey - the good guys.

Can anyone else here agree with me that America being the bad guy doesn't make Turkey the good guys, and vica versa?

The only definite good guys in most middle East wars and most wars in general are the innocent women and children caught in harm's way. Most wars don't have a good country, and even world war II wasn't exactly good vs evil (we sided with Stalin and mao to stop hitler and the japanese).