Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

[I dont even know who to root for]

So I guess the reason we are letting the Kurds get slaughtered is Rojava couldn't purchase the US military for the same bid Saudi Arabia can.

No one is getting slaughtered. It's all a backroom deal done by Putin, SAA and SDF with Erdogan's green light.

This is realpolitik for you and the conflict will be over in one year when Idlib is fine cleaned up. Maybe even six months.

[The Grims]

If only certain EU member states weren't so virulently xenophobic to the point that Erdogan's threat to let immigrants loose cows them.

The problem is that because some EU states are so xenophobic, Erdogan's threats affect not only those countries but those who have taken in refugees as well, like Germany, because they bear a disproportionate burden. If every EU state took in a proportional amount of refugees relative to their population, no single country would be over capacity, even if more refugees came via Turkey.

America has also failed to take responsibility by taking in some hundred times fewer refugees than Germany despite 4 times the population and being the richest country in the world. All of the EU should do their part, but even the whole EU should not have to do it alone.

To be fair Trunp did have a point that the USA was doing all the military work and that Europe should have helped if they do not want swarms of regugees and Daesh fans in their countries.
They said no, the USA said kay, bye.

[I dont even know who to root for]

The problem is that because some EU states are so xenophobic, Erdogan's threats affect not only those countries but those who have taken in refugees as well, like Germany, because they bear a disproportionate burden. If every EU state took in a proportional amount of refugees relative to their population, no single country would be over capacity, even if more refugees came via Turkey.

America has also failed to take responsibility by taking in some hundred times fewer refugees than Germany despite 4 times the population and being the richest country in the world. All of the EU should do their part, but even the whole EU should not have to do it alone.

To be fair Trunp did have a point that the USA was doing all the military work and that Europe should have helped if they do not want swarms of regugees and Daesh fans in their countries.
They said no, the USA said kay, bye.

As a European I cannot blame the US and honestly I am glad that Trump is pulling this game. It maybe makes our politicians realize we should do our own defense spending and get our armed forces together. Not in an EU together sense, but rather getting the shit together in our individual armed forces.

[I dont even know who to root for]

So appereantly SAA captured Tabqa airbase which is a major gain for SAA. It needs to be kind of renovated which will last a week or two but this is a game changer since the airbase in Damascus became too tight. It's also further away from Israel so Israel will have a harder time bombing SyAF airplanes.

[Page]

The problem is that because some EU states are so xenophobic, Erdogan's threats affect not only those countries but those who have taken in refugees as well, like Germany, because they bear a disproportionate burden. If every EU state took in a proportional amount of refugees relative to their population, no single country would be over capacity, even if more refugees came via Turkey.

America has also failed to take responsibility by taking in some hundred times fewer refugees than Germany despite 4 times the population and being the richest country in the world. All of the EU should do their part, but even the whole EU should not have to do it alone.

To be fair Trunp did have a point that the USA was doing all the military work and that Europe should have helped if they do not want swarms of regugees and Daesh fans in their countries.
They said no, the USA said kay, bye.

The United States did contribute to the destruction of Daesh, and that was a good thing, but the United States also worsened the situation elsewhere in Syria by arming several rebel groups, many of whom were terrorists.

And Trump would never allow a significant number of refugees to settle in America even if the EU made a strong military commitment.

[The Grims]

To be fair Trunp did have a point that the USA was doing all the military work and that Europe should have helped if they do not want swarms of regugees and Daesh fans in their countries.
They said no, the USA said kay, bye.

The United States did contribute to the destruction of Daesh, and that was a good thing, but the United States also worsened the situation elsewhere in Syria by arming several rebel groups, many of whom were terrorists.

And Trump would never allow a significant number of refugees to settle in America even if the EU made a strong military commitment.

But if the EU had comitted there would not be an invasion now.Daesh members would not escape en masse from their prisons, ready to travel back to their homecountries and spread their poison.

[Page]

The United States did contribute to the destruction of Daesh, and that was a good thing, but the United States also worsened the situation elsewhere in Syria by arming several rebel groups, many of whom were terrorists.

And Trump would never allow a significant number of refugees to settle in America even if the EU made a strong military commitment.

But if the EU had comitted there would not be an invasion now.Daesh members would not escape en masse from their prisons, ready to travel back to their homecountries and spread their poison.

That also wouldn't have happened if the US and EU firmly told Turkey they're not allowed to invade.

[Baltenstein]

So, because of this fustercluck Trump and Erdogan have created, we have Far-Left Anarchists, Communists, Socialists, a Libertarian-Socialist national liberation movement, an ultranationalist, Ba'athist Syrian state ruled by Assad, and Putin's Russia united against Turkey, ISIS, and a whole plethora of Islamists being used as cannon-fodder by Turkey from scores of factions, all with a whole host of countries from the international community including the entirety of the Middle East from Israel to Iran united in condemnation of Turkey's actions.

What the fuck.

What makes you think that Russia is "against" Erdogan and his actions?

Russia on Oct. 11 blocked a statement at the UN Security Council that called for a halt to Turkey's military operation in northeastern Syria.

The U.S.-drafted statement urged Turkey to end the operation and address its security concerns through diplomatic channels, according to diplomats from the UN.

The diplomats said China joined Moscow in raising an objection.

A statement obtained by Anadolu Agency said the Security Council members expressed "deep concern" over the Turkish operation and "its implications, including humanitarian and security dimensions."

Turkey on Oct. 9 launched "Operation Peace Spring" east of the Euphrates River in northern Syria to secure its borders by eliminating terrorist elements and to ensure the safe return of Syrian refugees and Syria's territorial integrity.

Ankara wants to eliminate terrorist elements of the PKK and its Syrian offshoot, the YPG.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russia ... ion-147410

As per usual, Moscow is playing both sides.

[I dont even know who to root for]

But if the EU had comitted there would not be an invasion now.Daesh members would not escape en masse from their prisons, ready to travel back to their homecountries and spread their poison.

That also wouldn't have happened if the US and EU firmly told Turkey they're not allowed to invade.

Chamberlain complaining that Hitler invaded the first time also really made Hitler stop invading other countries.

Besides that, the US and EU did object.

[Loben The 2nd]

Well would you look at that, Rojava got themselves a new sugar daddy.

[I dont even know who to root for]

Well would you look at that, Rojava got themselves a new sugar daddy.

When one ditches you you'll always find another one. Even the one you cursed for years.

Honk honk

[I dont even know who to root for]

>he abolishment of the #SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces), with all the current Kurdish forces and military groups joining the 5th Corps (Assault Legion) under Russian control
A solid guarantee of full Kurdish rights in the new Syrian constitution with autonomy which will be agreed upon by Kurdish leadership & Syrian state.
Joint coordinated effort by Syrian/Kurdish forces to remove Turkish presence in northern #Syria including #Afrin (Idleb doesn't count)
#Manbej & #Kobani were agreed upon for #SAA to enter quickly, whilst #Hasakeh has seen a wide scale deployment of Syrian troops, this will continue in #Qamishly and other joint areas
With Syrian forces now on the border area with #Turkey it's clear that this starts a new phase in the 8-year-long war where some sort of endgame is now taking shape - all border areas and administrational centres will be taken over by the Syrian government
Within one month Kurdish leadership with start to take up some official roles within the current Syrian government to ease the transition period of N. #Syria until an new constitution/government is formed in the future
#Tabqa in #Raqqa was also on the agreement, Syrian forces entered the city and took control of the military airbase earlier today

https://twitter.com/Dannymakkisyria/sta ... 9764611072

GG WP Assad, you played it right

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901

So does a deal between the Kurds and the Syrian Army mean Syria and Turkey are likely to end up in a war with each other?

[The Huskar Social Union]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901

So does a deal between the Kurds and the Syrian Army mean Syria and Turkey are likely to end up in a war with each other?

Well the Syrian army is moving north towards the border apparently, so likely to have a confrontation with one another. Which could potentially escalate into full on war.

[SD_Film Artists]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901

So does a deal between the Kurds and the Syrian Army mean Syria and Turkey are likely to end up in a war with each other?

Technically yes, but probably no. I guess that either Putin or Erdogan will prevent that from happening. For all we know it could just be a ruse to screw the Kurds even further.

[Drongonia]

Turkey bombs a convoy of journalists and other civilians - at least ten dead.

Turkey has no right to do this. If you want to debate the legitimacy of the Kurdish land, then fine, but the only other possible logical owner of the land is Syria, not Turkey. Turkey should be sent running back to their own borders, the Kurds should get and keep their own state and Assad should go back to fighting the rebels in his own borders.

The US backing out caused this of course, and I have mixed feelings about that, but ultimately no matter the catalyst, Turkey must die.

[Ifreann]

Bizarre how much value some people place on paperwork.

I place value on the lives of American soldiers.

Which are equivalent to the lives of anyone else in every respect except paperwork. So on the basis of people lacking that paperwork, you don't care if they live or die. But once they acquire the proper paperwork, then their lives have value to you. The paperwork, which is all citizenship really is, is what matters to you.

[I dont even know who to root for]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901

So does a deal between the Kurds and the Syrian Army mean Syria and Turkey are likely to end up in a war with each other?

Well the Syrian army is moving north towards the border apparently, so likely to have a confrontation with one another. Which could potentially escalate into full on war.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50036901

So does a deal between the Kurds and the Syrian Army mean Syria and Turkey are likely to end up in a war with each other?

Technically yes, but probably no. I guess that either Putin or Erdogan will prevent that from happening. For all we know it could just be a ruse to screw the Kurds even further.

Russia, Iran, Turkey and Syria have been meeting regularly in Astana. From what I see this is just a giant show to appease the Turkish public, make Erdogan seem like a hero, but in the end its a win win for everyone.

The Kurds are integrated into the SAA. Syria will take those refugees from Turkey back. So Erdogan has got all his goals (YPG neutralized and refugees gone).

Assad will have Rojava territory. They will have Raqqa back with its oil fields plus a 70.000 manpower in reserve for Idlib to come.

If this is not a win win for everyone, then I don't know anymore. This conflict is as good as almost over.

[I dont even know who to root for]

Turkey bombs a convoy of journalists and other civilians - at least ten dead.

Turkey has no right to do this. If you want to debate the legitimacy of the Kurdish land, then fine, but the only other possible logical owner of the land is Syria, not Turkey. Turkey should be sent running back to their own borders, the Kurds should get and keep their own state and Assad should go back to fighting the rebels in his own borders.

The US backing out caused this of course, and I have mixed feelings about that, but ultimately no matter the catalyst, Turkey must die.

A spokesman for the Kurdish forces, said 11 were killed and 74 injured but it was not clear how many were civilians.

Hold your horses. This happened yesterday and reports said that, footage confirmed this, that it was a mixed military - civilian column. Now the militias are known for using civilian vehicles as means of transportation. Once someone sees some guns its therefore easy to assume the whole column was military.

And even then the question is - if the Turks knew civilians were in between - whether it was their intention to shoot civilians.

[Loben The 2nd]

If the civilians were in open view in a military convoy wouldn’t that mean that Rojava was using them as human shields?

[I dont even know who to root for]

If the civilians were in open view in a military convoy wouldn’t that mean that Rojava was using them as human shields?

Basically yes. But the SDF ditched their uniforms before fighting anyway - meaning they wore civilian clothes when they fought. Which can be seen here.

So it could also have been unarmed fighters. It's really messy and hard to know who tells the truth.

[Loben The 2nd]

If the civilians were in open view in a military convoy wouldn’t that mean that Rojava was using them as human shields?

Basically yes. But the SDF ditched their uniforms before fighting anyway - meaning they wore civilian clothes when they fought. Which can be seen here.

So it could also have been unarmed fighters. It's really messy and hard to know who tells the truth.

If they were unarmed fighters then What is the problem?

[I dont even know who to root for]

Basically yes. But the SDF ditched their uniforms before fighting anyway - meaning they wore civilian clothes when they fought. Which can be seen here.

So it could also have been unarmed fighters. It's really messy and hard to know who tells the truth.

If they were unarmed fighters then What is the problem?

The fact people died wearing civilian clothing.

It could have been civilians. It could have been unarmed fighters. Yet the conclusion has already been drawn that it were civilians. We simply don't know.

[Loben The 2nd]

If they were unarmed fighters then What is the problem?

The fact people died wearing civilian clothing.

It could have been civilians. It could have been unarmed fighters. Yet the conclusion has already been drawn that it were civilians. We simply don't know.

Well since journalists were apparently in the cross fire I’m sure we’ll hear about it.

[I dont even know who to root for]

The fact people died wearing civilian clothing.

It could have been civilians. It could have been unarmed fighters. Yet the conclusion has already been drawn that it were civilians. We simply don't know.

Well since journalists were apparently in the cross fire I’m sure we’ll hear about it.

Yes. In fact some journalists even died in the bombardment. But this happened 24 hours ago anyway. The last reporters left northern Syria this morning.