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Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which side you're sympathic towards?

Turkey
54
13%
Rojava/SDF
262
63%
Neither or unsure
101
24%
 
Total votes : 417

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Napkizemlja
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Founded: Apr 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Napkizemlja » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:56 pm

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Turkey isn't a sharia state lmao. It's very, very secular.


Though Erdogan is trying his best to make it less secular, going against Ataturk while pretending to respect him.

Not necessarily a bad thing. There is a thing such as secularism gone mad.
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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:
Though Erdogan is trying his best to make it less secular, going against Ataturk while pretending to respect him.

Not necessarily a bad thing. There is a thing such as secularism gone mad.


I didn't know not letting your irrational belief in God motivate your laws was a bad thing. So much for equality cause once you mix religion and government, one religion will be given superior rights
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:
Though Erdogan is trying his best to make it less secular, going against Ataturk while pretending to respect him.

Not necessarily a bad thing. There is a thing such as secularism gone mad.


Is there? Either way Turkey has became much less welcoming to foreigners. I'm not saying it's like N.Korea but it is weird to have a leader who thinks that he can ban satire.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:57 pm

On the upside, Assad might just have the impetus needed to unify another big chunk of the country and then clear out that nest of terrorists and violent, heart-eating extremists in Idlib for good.
Last edited by Vetalia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

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Duhon
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
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Postby Duhon » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:58 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Duhon wrote:
fuck them and save millions

I've yet to see fascists save anything


the eu is still by and large not made up of fascists

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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:58 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
NATO is pushing up against Russia and has also become entangled in a middle east conflict that pits US backed kurds against the Turkish sharia state. That's two too many

Turkey isn't a sharia state lmao. It's very, very secular.

I thought you didn't want to abandon the Kurds though? That's exactly what pulling NATO out or disbanding it would do. I as well also wish to shove European collective security down the shitter; I'm sure it would end well.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dem ... king-over/

Turkey is slowly leaving secularism. This is just the facts, and you don't need to be in NATO to stand by the kurds. They helped us. We ought to help them.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Vetalia
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Founded: Mar 23, 2005
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:18 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Turkey isn't a sharia state lmao. It's very, very secular.

I thought you didn't want to abandon the Kurds though? That's exactly what pulling NATO out or disbanding it would do. I as well also wish to shove European collective security down the shitter; I'm sure it would end well.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dem ... king-over/

Turkey is slowly leaving secularism. This is just the facts, and you don't need to be in NATO to stand by the kurds. They helped us. We ought to help them.


Plus they really, really hate the Kurds for some reason...shades of the Armenians who they actually committed genocide against come to mind. Thank God Trump in his great and unmatched wisdom is at the helm.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:23 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
Page wrote:
The PKK is a natural reaction to long and severe oppression.

Why can’t a single NSG thread go by without someone claiming a civilian-targeting terrorist group is a natural reaction to oppression? Terrorists are terrorists, period.

And the Sons of Liberty during the Revolutionary War targeted royalist civilians too, yet I don't see anyone denouncing George Washington or the Founding Fathers as "terrorists" for atrocities commited against citizens who supported the British government. Nor do I see anyone here denouncing Irgun or any of the Zionist separatists during the 1947-49 War in Palestine as "terrorist organizations". Violence or repression against a particular ethnic group naturally breeds resentment, and enough resentment ultimately results in the outbreak of an armed insurgency, as evidenced by the Turkish state's history of repression against the Kurdish populace for entire centuries. There would be no PKK or TAK today if the Turkish state didn't treat the Kurds as little more than subhumans.

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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:25 pm

Speaking of Dolt 45 and his idiotic argument that we should abandon the Kurds due to them not being a belligerent power during WWII...what about Saudi Arabia? I don't exactly recall many soldiers from the Kingdom massing to fight Nazi Germany and I suspect they weren't on the landing craft at Normandy.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Vetalia wrote:Speaking of Dolt 45 and his idiotic argument that we should abandon the Kurds due to them not being a belligerent power during WWII...what about Saudi Arabia? I don't exactly recall many soldiers from the Kingdom massing to fight Nazi Germany and I suspect they weren't on the landing craft at Normandy.

Now that is a sick burn. 8)

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Duhon
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Duhon » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:28 pm

Vetalia wrote:Speaking of Dolt 45 and his idiotic argument that we should abandon the Kurds due to them not being a belligerent power during WWII...what about Saudi Arabia? I don't exactly recall many soldiers from the Kingdom massing to fight Nazi Germany and I suspect they weren't on the landing craft at Normandy.


less an argument, more an excuse
if he had brought with him an actual bucket of shit and dumped it on the nearest journalist it would have the same persuasive power

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:33 pm

Duhon wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:He's threatened to release millions of refugees into Europe apparently. Smart really


if i were the eu it really should
people's safety trumps every other consideration and redouble its commitment to human rights, plus it'd deprive erdogan of one way to blackmail the eu
if there are actual terrorists among them they can always be apprehended and jailed
there is barely any drawback that i can see


You realize the EU doesnt even can care properly for the refugees that are already there?

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Vetalia
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Vetalia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Duhon wrote:
Vetalia wrote:Speaking of Dolt 45 and his idiotic argument that we should abandon the Kurds due to them not being a belligerent power during WWII...what about Saudi Arabia? I don't exactly recall many soldiers from the Kingdom massing to fight Nazi Germany and I suspect they weren't on the landing craft at Normandy.


less an argument, more an excuse
if he had brought with him an actual bucket of shit and dumped it on the nearest journalist it would have the same persuasive power


It's the sheer ignorance of the statement that he made that blew my mind. I voted for Trump in 2016 hoping he would bring change to Washington, but he has been the most complete and utter failure I've ever seen in terms of policy and is degenerating into a level of clownish idiocy that has not been seen before. Now I realize he really is an dumbass rube who has never known anything beyond what he inherited or bought via inheritance. He's a terrible businessman, terrible negotiator and terrible person.

To his credit, though, he did appoint two great SCOTUS judges but I suspect he had nothing to do with them in reality other than signing the paperwork.
Last edited by Vetalia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

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Nogodia
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Founded: Dec 11, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nogodia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:35 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
He released refugees into europe, we should return the favor and release our top 1000 most dangerous criminals into ankara. Not a single shot needs to be fired to stop erdogan. All trump has to do is embrace that fire he had in 2016 and make erdogan legit think he's crazy enough to bring terror and misery to turkey through unconventional methods. See people like when there's a plan even if it's terrible, but the minute there's chaos and unpredictability then they get scared. Threatening sanctions against erdogan won't work. Threatening to take the craziest approach possible might. Erdogan wouldn't be invading syria right now if there was a chance America might actually use its weapons on his troops in a fire fight


you do know that Turkey is a NATO ally right?

Don't make us laugh.
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BLASNIAENIA wrote:
Inven wrote:A major threat, especially for small islands nation like Tuvalu


Can't they move?


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Defender of Democracy
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Postby Defender of Democracy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:44 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:Turkey has every right to do this.


The Turks have zero right to do this.

What they are planning to do is nothing short of ethnic cleansing.

They want to create a buffer zone inside Syria. Inside that buffer zone, they want to place the 5 million Syrian refugees residing in Turkey.

To create that buffer zone for their latest planned violation of the Geneva Conventions (the part about changing the demographics, they've done it before in Cyprus so they are well versed in violating International Laws), they need to clear the area of the ethnic Kurds. It's not coincidence.
That part of Syria is part of "Kurdistan", that large geographic area that spans from Turkey to Syria to Iraq to Iran, where between 30 and 40 million Kurds live. Turkey doesn't want a Kurdistan on it's door step, because Turkey fears the next step is independence for the Kurds in South Eastern Turkey.
Turkey is more then happy to steal other peoples land and occupy it with it's military though.

The pretext that the Kurds or the SDF are a terror threat to them is ridiculous. The SDF are the ones holding the keys to the prisons full of ISIS terrorists. Without them, ISIS would still be running around, or the US and others would have had to commit tens of thousands of ground forces to battle ISIS.
The Kurds did the hard yards for the West, of course armed and trained by the West so the West doesn't have to get its hands dirty and be bogged down in another war, and now Trump the moron has turned the USA's back on them and the Turks are slaughtering them. Indiscriminate slaughter, as is usually the case with the genocidal Turk. The internet is full of new images in recent days of innocents killed, including children, complete with Turks cheering and celebrating these horrific scenes.

Trump wont lift a finger because Trump has business interests in Turkey. He doesn't have any in Syria or with the Kurds.
Russia wont intervene, because they'd rather sit back and watch hoping that the an even bigger rift between Turkey and the West develops that it can exploit even further for it's advantage.
Europe is largely militarily impotent, and too scared to piss Turkey off too much because of those 5 million Syrians that Erdogan keeps threatening to send across into Europe.

The West has become a joke. But, let's not pretend that even if Europe was in a position to do something to stop Turkeys latest genocide and ethnic cleansing rampage, or that the US had a president who wasn't in a conflict of interest, that they would actually do anything, since we've seen in the past that the West does nothing unless it's in their own interests (of course human rights and ethnic cleansing are the reasons given, such as when they went into Yugoslavia, because breaking up a large country like Yugoslavia was in their interests, particularly Germany's..or Turkeys continued illegal occupation of northern Cyprus even though there are security council resolutions against it they have yet to be enforced decades since they were passed)....

Can the West really trust the Turks to keep the ISIS terrorists locked away? The same Turks who were in alliance with ISIS, with the Turkish military aiding the terrorists crossing in and out of Syria, arming them, buying and selling oil from ISIS...?
The same Turkey that counts Hamas and other terror groups among it's allies and it's President sits down with them before the cameras?

I understand Trump wants to supposedly put a stop to the endless wars the USA is involved with. But doing what he's done, leaving chaos and genocide in your wake, is not the way to go about it.
If he was hoping to be remembered as a better president then Obama, he's just destroyed that opportunity once and for all.

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Napkizemlja
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Postby Napkizemlja » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:45 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Not necessarily a bad thing. There is a thing such as secularism gone mad.


I didn't know not letting your irrational belief in God motivate your laws was a bad thing. So much for equality cause once you mix religion and government, one religion will be given superior rights

When you're telling women that they can't wear the hijab at work or regulating religious communities from being able to bring in foreign priests to lead congregations, actively leading to their decline, then yeah I'd say it's gone a bit too far.
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Hatterleigh
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Postby Hatterleigh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:48 pm

Why did Kurdistan get the works? Well that's nobody's business but the Turks...
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:23 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
I didn't know not letting your irrational belief in God motivate your laws was a bad thing. So much for equality cause once you mix religion and government, one religion will be given superior rights

When you're telling women that they can't wear the hijab at work or regulating religious communities from being able to bring in foreign priests to lead congregations, actively leading to their decline, then yeah I'd say it's gone a bit too far.


The problem is that you types really don't care about that, you want to enforce your beliefs on others and that is the entire point and goal of your grievances. To put it charitably: eat shit and die.
Last edited by Vetalia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:23 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Turkey isn't a sharia state lmao. It's very, very secular.

I thought you didn't want to abandon the Kurds though? That's exactly what pulling NATO out or disbanding it would do. I as well also wish to shove European collective security down the shitter; I'm sure it would end well.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dem ... king-over/

Turkey is slowly leaving secularism. This is just the facts, and you don't need to be in NATO to stand by the kurds. They helped us. We ought to help them.


Makes me wish the 2016 Coup would have suceeded. Unironically.

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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:32 pm

Well, I’m glad a lot of my fellow soldiers are coming back home, I still think both all sides in this conflict are unfavorable
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:48 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:When you're telling women that they can't wear the hijab at work or regulating religious communities from being able to bring in foreign priests to lead congregations, actively leading to their decline, then yeah I'd say it's gone a bit too far.


The problem is that you types really don't care about that, you want to enforce your beliefs on others and that is the entire point and goal of your grievances. To put it charitably: eat shit and die.

And the problem with you is, you don't know when to step back and take a breath.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:52 pm

Nakena wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dem ... king-over/

Turkey is slowly leaving secularism. This is just the facts, and you don't need to be in NATO to stand by the kurds. They helped us. We ought to help them.


Makes me wish the 2016 Coup would have suceeded. Unironically.

That coup was Turkeys last chance. There will not be another coup has the wannabe Sultan has Stalined the military.
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Defender of Democracy
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Postby Defender of Democracy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:52 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
NATO is pushing up against Russia and has also become entangled in a middle east conflict that pits US backed kurds against the Turkish sharia state. That's two too many

Turkey isn't a sharia state lmao. It's very, very secular.

I thought you didn't want to abandon the Kurds though? That's exactly what pulling NATO out or disbanding it would do. I as well also wish to shove European collective security down the shitter; I'm sure it would end well.


It's not a Sharia state, but it definitely has taken a sharp turn away from the hybrid secularist pseudo western democracy it once was viewed as.

European Collective what? Europe is impotent.

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:53 pm

Page wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Erdogan threatened to open the flood gates and send millions of refugees to Europe if they continue the hardline against Turkey. Fun times are ahead.


Counter that threat with Turkey being expelled from NATO and Erdogan would fold.


Everyone's got BDE until they're threatened with having to fend off Putin on their own.
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Nogodia
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Postby Nogodia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:00 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Page wrote:
Counter that threat with Turkey being expelled from NATO and Erdogan would fold.


Everyone's got BDE until they're threatened with having to fend off Putin on their own.

Plan with a high chance of backfiring: Kick Turkey out of NATO, veto anything they toss into the UNSC (provided it backs their cleansing of the Kurds), cut off their arms exports, and recognize the Kurds as a separate identity from Turkey with their own culture, and have America federally recognize the Armenian Genocide.
Does NOT use NS Stats. Nogodia natively means no-hope-place. Don't use religion as a casus belli like that guy.
Nation partially represents political views. If you're a tiny, new, despotic nation trying to start wars, we will fight you.

Vaukiai wrote:I am sure that if I say everything the opposite, you don't warn me.

This forum is a jewish dictatorship.

BLASNIAENIA wrote:
Inven wrote:A major threat, especially for small islands nation like Tuvalu


Can't they move?


Munkcestrian Republic wrote:
Trixtoria wrote:
BlueSteel does NOT support the institution of slavery. We thank you for you interest.

Why not?

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