Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVIII: Hyena Central Command 憶ラ

[Hanafuridake]

The Nixon administration's policy in Cambodia is one of the most immoral and stupid examples of incompetence in the 20th century.

[North German Realm]

If you are implying that OEP might be an actual Fascist or NatSoc then I am inclined to believe that you may have not yet the questionable pleasure to meet actual ones. (Which are a rare breed on NSG I should add)

This is the right-wing equivalent of the Not Real Communism apologia.

It's kinda the opposite, isn't it? Left-wingers often use the "Not real Communism" apologia to condemn the actor while keeping the ideology clean. This is condemning the ideology to keep the actor clean.

[Hanafuridake]

Self-absorbed question, but I wondered what posters thought of my beliefs and how they fit on the political spectrum?

[Torrocca]

I love how you ignore the very, very simple fact that the Allies could've simply, oh, I dunno, moved supplies to those other routes? But nah I guess that's totally impossible whereas Japan dedicating its entire army to taking a single city while being locally outnumbered by the Soviets (as well as by the Chinese because they were still openly at war with Japan and would've exploited the hell out of a volatilely stupid attack on Vladivostok by the IJA) is a clear and obvious possibility, which is why they obviously decided against it, right?

They couldn't because the other routes lacked capacity and the Northern Route wasn't all year. Even with building up the port capacity and railway network in Persia and the Russian Far North, the Far East Asia route beat all of them hands down.

As well, we once again see you haven't read even what you've previously cited; the entire IJA was not going to be used for any such offensive and never was planned for such. IGHQ only planned to use the Kwantung Army, which was an entirely separate force from the China Expeditionary Force. As for the Kwantung Army, as I literally just cited, it had the advantage of interior lines, control of the air and quality troops while the Soviets had low rated formations that were stretched thin and thus could be concentrated against by the Japanese. Their only line of logistics is the Trans-Siberian Railroad, which the Japanese can bomb with impunity thanks to the poor state of the VVS in the Far East and Japanese air superiority.

Y'know what, OEP? You're absolutely, positively, undeniably right here. There's no way the Allied powers, who all went from being roped into a war they didn't want to accomplish the titular task of winning the deadliest war in human history, who built the largest navies, air forces, and armies the world ever saw, who managed to successfully conduct numerous seaborne invasions against heavily-defended lands, who created the strongest and largest worldwide network of logistics the world ever saw, simply never could have overcome this insurmountable odd of the Japanese Empire conducting a plan which included committing the majority of its forces against a single city and causing a complete collapse of its frontlines against China. There's simply no way some of the greatest military and political minds of the world at the time, who successfully defeated the Axis powers wholesale, could have ever hoped to do something as crazy as create new supply lines, or remodel their supply network to ensure the USSR didn't starve to death. There's no possible way the Allies could've successfully mounted a seaborne counterattack into FER from the United States. There's no possible way they could've done anything but shrug their shoulders and go, "welp, war's lost it looks like. No way we can come back from this situation at all. We might have millions of soldiers and billions or trillions of materiel to fight with, but nah we definitely can't fix this situation at all."

Y'know, your bullshit fantasies might have some debatable merit to them if you bothered to acknowledge the Allies as more than nondescript, passive punching bags that crumble like a pile of sawdust at the slightest inconvenience. I mean, it's not like you're talking about the worldwide alliance that managed to win a multi-continent world war against genocidal odds or anything.

As for why the IJA didn't do this, again, if you had read the article you would know: the situation with regards to the United States had become paramount.

Yeah, it's almost like wars have multiple factors or something and accounting any one singular thing (particularly a fantastically stupid military plan) to one side's victory is fucking stupid.

[Napkizemlja]

Self-absorbed question, but I wondered what posters thought of my beliefs and how they fit on the political spectrum?

Maybe closer to Third Positionism perhaps? I don't know, I'm going off of what's in your sig.

[Napkizemlja]

They couldn't because the other routes lacked capacity and the Northern Route wasn't all year. Even with building up the port capacity and railway network in Persia and the Russian Far North, the Far East Asia route beat all of them hands down.

As well, we once again see you haven't read even what you've previously cited; the entire IJA was not going to be used for any such offensive and never was planned for such. IGHQ only planned to use the Kwantung Army, which was an entirely separate force from the China Expeditionary Force. As for the Kwantung Army, as I literally just cited, it had the advantage of interior lines, control of the air and quality troops while the Soviets had low rated formations that were stretched thin and thus could be concentrated against by the Japanese. Their only line of logistics is the Trans-Siberian Railroad, which the Japanese can bomb with impunity thanks to the poor state of the VVS in the Far East and Japanese air superiority.

Y'know what, OEP? You're absolutely, positively, undeniably right here. There's no way the Allied powers, who all went from being roped into a war they didn't want to accomplish the titular task of winning the deadliest war in human history, who built the largest navies, air forces, and armies the world ever saw, who managed to successfully conduct numerous seaborne invasions against heavily-defended lands, who created the strongest and largest worldwide network of logistics the world ever saw, simply never could have overcome this insurmountable odd of the Japanese Empire conducting a plan which included committing the majority of its forces against a single city and causing a complete collapse of its frontlines against China. There's simply no way some of the greatest military and political minds of the world at the time, who successfully defeated the Axis powers wholesale, could have ever hoped to do something as crazy as create new supply lines, or remodel their supply network to ensure the USSR didn't starve to death. There's no possible way the Allies could've successfully mounted a seaborne counterattack into FER from the United States. There's no possible way they could've done anything but shrug their shoulders and go, "welp, war's lost it looks like. No way we can come back from this situation at all. We might have millions of soldiers and billions or trillions of materiel to fight with, but nah we definitely can't fix this situation at all."

Y'know, your bullshit fantasies might have some debatable merit to them if you bothered to acknowledge the Allies as more than nondescript, passive punching bags that crumble like a pile of sawdust at the slightest inconvenience. I mean, it's not like you're talking about the worldwide alliance that managed to win a multi-continent world war against genocidal odds or anything.

As for why the IJA didn't do this, again, if you had read the article you would know: the situation with regards to the United States had become paramount.

Yeah, it's almost like wars have multiple factors or something and accounting any one singular thing (particularly a fantastically stupid military plan) to one side's victory is fucking stupid.

The Japanese recognized their own limitations, which is why they would have limited it to the Eastern and Northern Fronts.

As impressive as this appeared on paper, however, the Japanese were forced to acknowledge several harsh realities blocking the implementation of Hachi-Go in the near future. Specifically with regard to Concept B, the railway network in Manchuria had not been sufficiently expanded to facilitate such a far-reaching offensive and supply stocks on hand in the country were seriously below the required levels. Furthermore, the ongoing war in China precluded the concentration of the planned 50 divisions without fatally weakening the Japanese effort there. Additionally, Imperial General Headquarters concluded that in order to sustain a drive out to Lake Baikal, a fleet of some 200,000 trucks would be necessary,[24] a number more than twice as great as anything the entire Japanese military possessed at any given time.[25] Popular support for Concept B in IJA circles dissipated in 1939 after the Battle of Khalkhin Gol demonstrated the extensive challenges of supplying a sustained military commitment on even a relatively limited scale so far away from the nearest rail heads. From that point forward, Japanese offensive planning vis-a vis the USSR was chiefly focused on the Northern and Eastern fronts, with any advances in the West being limited to relatively modest gains on the far slope of the Great Khingan range.[26]

It's also really hard to get access to genuinely good logistics routes, Torr. There is a reason why despite all of the planning, the Allies in France still had to focus on preexisting port cities if they wanted to adequately supply their forces in 1944 and 1945. It's why retaking Antwerp was the primary goal of the Battle of the Bulge. It's why Vladivostok was so important. All of the equipment that would have been needed to beef up the Persian route (there is no way the Northern Route could have made up for the loss of Vladivostok) would be less equipment going to the Soviets and those resources having to take an even longer time to reach them. It wasn't just food, but critical industrial supplies that was being shipped into Vladivostok, things the Soviets desperately needed if they wanted to keep churning out equipment for the Red Army. You're right in disputing that it would have been a guaranteed Axis victory had they taken Vladivostok, but you acting like it wouldn't have made a difference is no better. It would have put the Soviets in a bind that would have tilted things further against the Soviets and there is no denying that. When your army has its rations cut in half, that doesn't bode well for fighting capabilities, morale, etc. Not to mention how the Central Asian troops (who were increasingly making up more and more of the Red Army as casualties mounted) would have felt with the Japanese right next door to where their families were and, given a situation where the Soviets decide to just leave the Japanese be, thinking that your own country is just leaving the door right open to your family. If they hadn't left them be, that's still quite a number of troops and equipment being diverted away from the front against the Germans.

[Luminesa]

(Emphasis mine)

OEP, is that true? I vaguely remember it being the case, but I don't wish to rush to judgement without proper evidence. Does that make sense?

I'll spare you the digging. He claimed later in the thread it was just a joke but, y'know, given his propensity for talking about an Axis victory in WWII because they did [insert fantastical theory of the week here], and for just defending them in general, I very much doubt that claim.

I mean, of all of OEP’s other questionable jokes and views, going after the meme and the vague flirting with Fahran is kinda silly.

[Loben The 2nd]

I'll spare you the digging. He claimed later in the thread it was just a joke but, y'know, given his propensity for talking about an Axis victory in WWII because they did [insert fantastical theory of the week here], and for just defending them in general, I very much doubt that claim.

I mean, of all of OEP’s other questionable jokes and views, going after the meme and the vague flirting with Fahran is kinda silly.

OEP is a acquired taste, but a harmless soul at that.

[Salus Maior]

Who feel like crying?

[Salus Maior]

Self-absorbed question, but I wondered what posters thought of my beliefs and how they fit on the political spectrum?

This might horrify you for me to say this, but I think you and me are similar in a monarcho-spiritual-cultural trad mindset, but with distinction given by the difference in our faiths.

So, probably center-right? Tbh I haven't given much thought to where I fit on the spectrum.

[Nakena]

Who feel like crying?

i fucking knew that's what it was before i even clicked on it.

if you don't get emotional while listening to this then you have no place in this thread

Get gud

[Salus Maior]

i fucking knew that's what it was before i even clicked on it.

if you don't get emotional while listening to this then you have no place in this thread

Get gud

Cursed.

[Nakena]

Get gud

Cursed.

It's a metal mix of bestest turkish war song. The Byzantine Empire was doomed. It was rotten to the core. It had to be culled.

[Salus Maior]

Cursed.

It's a metal mix of bestest turkish war song. The Byzantine Empire was doomed. It was rotten to the core. It had to be culled.

As if the Turks were not also rotten to the core.

[Totally Not OEP]

Y'know what, OEP? You're absolutely, positively, undeniably right here. There's no way the Allied powers, who all went from being roped into a war they didn't want to accomplish the titular task of winning the deadliest war in human history, who built the largest navies, air forces, and armies the world ever saw, who managed to successfully conduct numerous seaborne invasions against heavily-defended lands, who created the strongest and largest worldwide network of logistics the world ever saw, simply never could have overcome this insurmountable odd of the Japanese Empire conducting a plan which included committing the majority of its forces against a single city and causing a complete collapse of its frontlines against China. There's simply no way some of the greatest military and political minds of the world at the time, who successfully defeated the Axis powers wholesale, could have ever hoped to do something as crazy as create new supply lines, or remodel their supply network to ensure the USSR didn't starve to death. There's no possible way the Allies could've successfully mounted a seaborne counterattack into FER from the United States. There's no possible way they could've done anything but shrug their shoulders and go, "welp, war's lost it looks like. No way we can come back from this situation at all. We might have millions of soldiers and billions or trillions of materiel to fight with, but nah we definitely can't fix this situation at all."

Y'know, your bullshit fantasies might have some debatable merit to them if you bothered to acknowledge the Allies as more than nondescript, passive punching bags that crumble like a pile of sawdust at the slightest inconvenience. I mean, it's not like you're talking about the worldwide alliance that managed to win a multi-continent world war against genocidal odds or anything.

As you've now been repeatedly told, the entire IJA was not, in any way, shape or form going to be committed against the Soviets; just the Kwantung Army. Once again, the China Expeditionary Force was an entirely separate command, and none of its forces were earmarked for the movement into Siberia. The Kwantung Army on its own could conduct the offensive and not even all of it would be required for such; the Soviets were immobile and a few divisions would suffice to take the city. Even ignoring that, Japanese control of the Kurils and the IJN meant they didn't even have to take the city, as they could just cut the slocs.

As for Allied countermeasures, again, no. It took until 1943 to just expand the Persian route and the Northern route, with the development of additional port capacity with railways in the former and an entire development of the city of Arkhangelsk in the case of the latter. Any sort of alternative supply route was not possible and would take years to complete, in other words too late for the USSR. The U.S. did look at an offensive into the Kurils for 1943/1944 but judged it impractical, given the logistical constraints and force requirements.

The fact you keep repeating the same things you've already been shown, from your own source no less, to be wrong speaks volumes about your inability to debate the point at hand. Instead, you're resorting to your usual tactic of throwing as much invective and vitriol as possible in the hopes its masks your ignornance. Everyone here sees it, and we find it funny; you're so scared to admit I, someone you hate, can be right that you're willing to make yourself a fool for no apparent reason other than a stubborn pride.

Yeah, it's almost like wars have multiple factors or something and accounting any one singular thing (particularly a fantastically stupid military plan) to one side's victory is fucking stupid.

And by 1942, they had achieved their goals in Southeast Asia while the Kwantung Army wasn't drawn upon until 1944. In other words, they had a perfect window from mid-1942 until about mid-1944, which incidentally lines up perfectly with when the Soviets were utterly dependent on Western food aid.

[Nakena]

It's a metal mix of bestest turkish war song. The Byzantine Empire was doomed. It was rotten to the core. It had to be culled.

As if the Turks were not also rotten to the core.

Turkey is still going strong.

Let's face it given the amount of intense dislike hatred (which goes far beyond Erdogan) they get on here, they must be doing something right.

I regret that the coup in 2016 didn suceeded. That would have been awesome.

It's a metal mix of bestest turkish war song. The Byzantine Empire was doomed. It was rotten to the core. It had to be culled.

it wasn't really doomed until the Eternal Venetitian made it so

You called? The Venetian Republic was the amongst the best things ever and it should be restored and all it's powerness, decadence and debauched glory.

It's right up my alley. I even have one of those venetian masks here.

[Xuloqoia]

it wasn't really doomed until the Eternal Venetitian made it so

You called? The Venetian Republic was the amongst the best things ever and it should be restored and all it's powerness, decadence and debauched glory.

It's right up my alley. I even have one of those venetian masks here.

Leave it to the devil-worshipper to have a fondness for the Perfidious Venetian.

[Xuloqoia]

In other news, I am sadly unable to do as much shitposting as per usual this evening, since I've very much Physics work to do and not much time to do it.

[Kowani]

Now, can we please talk about anything else?

[Salus Maior]

(Image)

Now, can we please talk about anything else?

WWII yeah, no chance.

WWI is kind of debatable. Especially by the time they booted Russia from the war.

If America didn't get involved (that is, if Germany didn't have a dumbass submarine warfare policy), I think a German victory could be feasible.

[Nakena]

You called? The Venetian Republic was the amongst the best things ever and it should be restored and all it's powerness, decadence and debauched glory.

It's right up my alley. I even have one of those venetian masks here.

Leave it to the devil-worshipper to have a fondness for the Perfidious Venetian. :p

It's quite fitting isn't it?

[Salus Maior]

WWII yeah, no chance.

WWI is kind of debatable. Especially by the time they booted Russia from the war.

If America didn't get involved (that is, if Germany didn't have a dumbass submarine warfare policy), I think a German victory could be feasible.

iirc it was the influx of American troops which prevented the Germans from taking Paris

I'm not sure about that, but by the end of the war French troops were on the verge of mutiny iirc. If that happened, Germany probably would have had the upper hand.

[Totally Not OEP]

iirc it was the influx of American troops which prevented the Germans from taking Paris

I'm not sure about that, but by the end of the war French troops were on the verge of mutiny iirc. If that happened, Germany probably would have had the upper hand.

The Spring Offensive would've been decisive if Amiens and Hazebrouck had been taken, as the BEF would've been destroyed and the German Army could concentrate upon the French.

[Proctopeo]

Self-absorbed question, but I wondered what posters thought of my beliefs and how they fit on the political spectrum?

You're... complicated.
While you hold traditionalist positions, outside of that, you're not very right wing at all.
As others have said, some kind of esoteric third position is likely closest.

(Image)

Now, can we please talk about anything else?

If it weren't for Wilhelm II, Germany could have secured a better set of alliances, in the process weakening France's.
Both Germany and the UK didn't like France; Germany competing with the UK with its naval expansion is the chief reason as to why the two could not be allies.

A hypothetical German-British alliance (not sure on the third member, Germany had lots of rivals, you see...) would have been significantly stronger against France and Russia than Germany's alliance with Austria was.
Victory in such a case is by no means assured, but highly likely, given British naval dominance having much better syngergy with Germany's powerful land army better than Austria's... ethnic tension and general instability.

But as the alliances stood, Germany would have to either be extremely lucky or the Entente extremely stupid, instead of just occasionally stupid like they were in OTL.

[Salus Maior]

I'm not sure about that, but by the end of the war French troops were on the verge of mutiny iirc. If that happened, Germany probably would have had the upper hand.

The Spring Offensive would've been decisive if Amiens and Hazebrouck had been taken, as the BEF would've been destroyed and the German Army could concentrate upon the French.

K A I S E R S C H L A C H T