Matt Bevin and bring your bible to school

[Aureumterra]

I don’t see any laws that promote a single religion anywhere, it seems equal enough

State governor promoting Evangelism in an official capacity isn't promoting a religion to you?

It’s not a mandate nor a law, it’s a tweet

[Arkhane]

Unless it's being forced or actively being taught by teachers by the governor's orders or people who disagree are being censored or banned, or if Bevin used government resources to send delegates or agents to proselytize the schools or if he is actively discouraging and telling students that other faiths are not allowed, I don't see how a tweet is violating anyone's rights.

Making a public recommendation on an official twitter channel doesn't actually count unless the government subsidizes Twitter. People are easily offended these days.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don't really think it violates the first amendment. Nothing wrong with students bringing books from home.

[Kowani]

Sigh. There exists, in US constitutional law, a test, developed by the Supreme Court, to determine if a law or government action contradicts the First Amendment:

Three ... tests may be gleaned from our cases. First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion; finally, the statute must not foster an excessive government entanglement with religion.

Now, this is not technically a statute per se, but it still runs into a problem with the second prong in particular, and the third as a possible one.

Well there you go. You've proven yourself wrong by admitting encouragement is not a law or a statute. He did nothing unconstitutional, this is well within his rights.

Try again. The Constitution is more than just textualism, it is a document of principles. The principle here is clear-the Government cannot endorse or promote a religion.

[Neutraligon]

Correct, but they cannot be lead in prayer by the school, even if no one is actually forcing them to pray. Hence students can on their own decide to bring their bible to school, but a school or governor suggesting they bring their bible to school would be a violation.

Your interpretation of the constitution is wrong. Violations of the Constitution can only be carried out through the development of public policy which Bevin certainly isn't doing. Encouraging something like this seems to actually be protected as 1st amendment free speech.

Incorrect again, as shown by schools, not districts, leading prayer.

[Gormwood]

State governor promoting Evangelism in an official capacity isn't promoting a religion to you?

It’s not a mandate nor a law, it’s a tweet

It doesn't have to be a theocratic decree to break the separation of Church and State.

[Kaystein]

I don't see anything wrong.

[Arkhane]

Well there you go. You've proven yourself wrong by admitting encouragement is not a law or a statute. He did nothing unconstitutional, this is well within his rights.

Try again. The Constitution is more than just textualism, it is a document of principles. The principle here is clear-the Government cannot endorse or promote a religion.

Endorsement promotion of religion by the government means either expenditure of government resources on said religion, subsidies, passing a law or having a significant influence in order for said religion to get an advantage.

Twitter is not a government channel. Bevin did not utilize any government resources. He is also a citizen entitled to freedom of speech and religion. He did not censor or ban anyone, he simply made a tweet recommending students to bring their Bibles.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It’s not a mandate nor a law, it’s a tweet

It doesn't have to be a theocratic decree to break the separation of Church and State.

Is it a separation of church and state for political figures to be openly religious at all?

[Scardinius]

The governor making a video on how kids should bring their bibles isn't a violation of the first amendment. It would be a violation if he forced children to bring their bible to school. While he may be promoting a certain religion not even that violates the first amendment, it's only a violation if the man forced people to bring their bible or any religious text for that matter. He didn't impede on anybody's religious freedom at all, and in fact is an exercise of his freedom of speech. The man doesn't deserve a reprimand, and he doesn't deserve a commendation and that's that.

[San Lumen]

Gov. Matt Bevin recently came out with a video encouraging students to bring their bibles to school for Bring your bible to school day (not a real holiday, something set u by Focus on the Family).

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 843477002/

I think this should definitely be considered as against the first amendment, and should be treated as such. I am not sure this is sufficient to impeach the gov, but at the minimum he should pay a fine. Do you think that he violated the first amendment? What do you think should happen if he did?

Yes it is a violation of the first amendment. I hope he loses next month but I’m not optimistic

[Aclion]

He didn't exercise any of his powers as governor in suggesting it, so I don't see how it's a violation of the first amendment. Despite my libertarian leaning I still acknowledge that public officials are people, and as a person he's perfectly within his right to suggest whatever..

[Kaystein]

The governor making a video on how kids should bring their bibles isn't a violation of the first amendment. It would be a violation if he forced children to bring their bible to school. While he may be promoting a certain religion not even that violates the first amendment, it's only a violation if the man forced people to bring their bible or any religious text for that matter. He didn't impede on anybody's religious freedom at all, and in fact is an exercise of his freedom of speech. The man doesn't deserve a reprimand, and he doesn't deserve a commendation and that's that.

On top of that, these peeps are quoting the US constitution, of all the documents!

OP, you need to reference Kentucky's constitution. That's where Kentucky's governor draws their authority from..

Alternatively, anybody could lodge a lawsuit in Kentucky's court. But that would be hypocrisy (or a double standard) on their part; claiming Kentucky's governor is violating the US first amendment, and then suppressing his right of religious expression.

If you're in disagreement with what the fellow's doing, then bitch all you want in this thread. But morally/ethically.. that's all you should really do.

[The Wasatch]

It depends whether he did so in his capacity as governor or as a private citizen. If it was an official government platform, it is admonishable to promote a religious ideology. If it was his personal platform, he can do what he wants.

[Rojava Free State]

I may as well bring my phone after forgetting to charge it. It'll be just as useful

[Kaystein]

I may as well bring my phone after forgetting to charge it. It'll be just as useful

That's a good joke.

[Pretty Much God]

Aside from some encouragement (key word, encouragement, not forceful coercion) I'm not seeing anything really wrong here. Am I missing something?
Everyone else seems to be outraged and is calling it a violation of the first amendment but I really don't see anything wrong here.

[Kaystein]

Aside from some encouragement, I'm not seeing anything really wrong here. Am I missing something?
Everyone else seems to be outraged and is calling it a violation of the first amendment but I really don't see anything wrong here.

It's the typical left-wing antics.

Socialists and liberals want to see religion die, and conservative values dead too. All to kiss the feet of their long-dead idol Karl Marx, and damn any thoughts of having an open mind or good sense!

[The Wasatch]

Aside from some encouragement, I'm not seeing anything really wrong here. Am I missing something?
Everyone else seems to be outraged and is calling it a violation of the first amendment but I really don't see anything wrong here.

It's the typical left-wing antics.

Socialists and liberals want to see religion die, and conservative values dead too. All to kiss the feet of their long-dead idol Karl Marx, and damn any thoughts of having an open mind or good sense!

There are plenty of religious left wingers. It is a mischaracterization to associate religion simply with the right wing. Conservatives just tend to be more likely to assert religion into government.

[Pretty Much God]

Aside from some encouragement, I'm not seeing anything really wrong here. Am I missing something?
Everyone else seems to be outraged and is calling it a violation of the first amendment but I really don't see anything wrong here.

It's the typical left-wing antics.

Socialists and liberals want to see religion die, and conservative values dead too. All to kiss the feet of their long-dead idol Karl Marx, and damn any thoughts of having an open mind or good sense!

Ooookaaay there, simmer down hotshot lol

[Neutraligon]

The governor making a video on how kids should bring their bibles isn't a violation of the first amendment. It would be a violation if he forced children to bring their bible to school. While he may be promoting a certain religion not even that violates the first amendment, it's only a violation if the man forced people to bring their bible or any religious text for that matter. He didn't impede on anybody's religious freedom at all, and in fact is an exercise of his freedom of speech. The man doesn't deserve a reprimand, and he doesn't deserve a commendation and that's that.

On top of that, these peeps are quoting the US constitution, of all the documents!

OP, you need to reference Kentucky's constitution. That's where Kentucky's governor draws their authority from..

Alternatively, anybody could lodge a lawsuit in Kentucky's court. But that would be hypocrisy (or a double standard) on their part; claiming Kentucky's governor is violating the US first amendment, and then suppressing his right of religious expression.

If you're in disagreement with what the fellow's doing, then bitch all you want in this thread. But morally/ethically.. that's all you should really do.

You are aware that the US constitution holds true even at the state level through the 14th amendment right? The US Supreme Court has repeatedly held this to be true

[Neutraligon]

Aside from some encouragement (key word, encouragement, not forceful coercion) I'm not seeing anything really wrong here. Am I missing something?
Everyone else seems to be outraged and is calling it a violation of the first amendment but I really don't see anything wrong here.

Encouragement is sufficient if it is coming from a government official acting in his capacity as a government official, s this person was doing here.

[Rojava Free State]

Aside from some encouragement, I'm not seeing anything really wrong here. Am I missing something?
Everyone else seems to be outraged and is calling it a violation of the first amendment but I really don't see anything wrong here.

It's the typical left-wing antics.

Socialists and liberals want to see religion die, and conservative values dead too. All to kiss the feet of their long-dead idol Karl Marx, and damn any thoughts of having an open mind or good sense!

Pfft, as if religion is cool with open mindedness or good sense. Not everyone who is anti religious is a communist

[Kaystein]

It's the typical left-wing antics.

Socialists and liberals want to see religion die, and conservative values dead too. All to kiss the feet of their long-dead idol Karl Marx, and damn any thoughts of having an open mind or good sense!

There are plenty of religious left wingers. It is a mischaracterization to associate religion simply with the right wing. Conservatives just tend to be more likely to assert religion into government.

I'm not associating the too.. or was the comma not enough? I'm not attacking you, but I'm asking a grammar question. Would a semicolon have been better? .. probably. Anyway, I hope I clarified that for you. On a personal note, I'm often placed on a political compass somewhere in the range of being center-left.

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You are aware that the US constitution holds true even at the state level through the 14th amendment right? The US Supreme Court has repeatedly held this to be true

I am. By all means, refer to my last post; if you feel so strongly about this topic send a lawsuit through the court system and put a stop to it. That's one reason why the judicial branch exists. Maybe you'll succeed, or maybe you won't. I'm not a fortune teller so may god be with you and good luck if you choose to do it.

[Neutraligon]

There are plenty of religious left wingers. It is a mischaracterization to associate religion simply with the right wing. Conservatives just tend to be more likely to assert religion into government.

I'm not associating the too.. or was the comma not enough? I'm not attacking you, but I'm asking a grammar question. Would a semicolon have been better? .. probably. Anyway, I hope I clarified that for you. On a personal note, I'm often placed on a political compass somewhere in the range of being center-left.

---

You are aware that the US constitution holds true even at the state level through the 14th amendment right? The US Supreme Court has repeatedly held this to be true

I am. By all means, refer to my last post; if you feel so strongly about this topic send a lawsuit through the court system and put a stop to it. That's one reason why the judicial branch exists. Maybe you'll succeed, or maybe you won't. I'm not a fortune teller so may god be with you and good luck if you choose to do it.

...I am unsure what the point of your response to me is. This is a discussion forum, where you know we discuss things. Also if you where aware that the US constitution applies, why did laugh about me mentioning the US constitution?