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Is the giant panda worth saving?

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Kragholm Free States
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:26 pm

Samudera Darussalam wrote:
Kragholm Free States wrote:"In 1983, a Chinese villager named Leng Zhizhong was tried for illegally killing a giant panda. He told the judge that his wife cooked the meat with turnips, but they didn’t enjoy it, so he fed some to his pigs and gave the remainder to his sister. Leng, unfortunately, didn’t explain what made the meat so unpalatable in what appears to be the only written description of panda-eating."

Seems we shouldn't discount the possibility that his wife was just a terrible cook.

Hehe, perhaps :p
It's noted that the description on what the meat tastes like is very rare, though:

It’s tempting to assume that giant pandas would taste like other members of the taxonomic family Ursidae, such as black and brown bears, which were a regular part of the frontier diet in 18th-century North America. Bear meat is darker and fattier than beef, although similar in flavor. The problem with the comparison, though, is that an animal’s diet greatly affects the flavor of its own flesh. Bears that dine mainly on salmon, for example, taste worse than those with a more varied diet. Since 99 percent of a giant panda’s diet is bamboo—with the occasional addition of a rodent, bird, or fish that popped out of a stream—it’s very unlikely that its flesh tastes anything like that of other bears.


Let's just see :p


All the more reason to find out, and document it properly
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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:27 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:?

They’re bears. Koalas are marsupials. Bears are evolved to eat meat, pandas can and do occasionally eat meat, for some reason, they’ve evolved to eat too much bamboo, which provides barely any nutrition.


Koalas aren't that different from bears, as myself and my fellow Aussies remarked upon when we last saw the latter.

Panda mannerisms are actually scarily similar to Koalas in and of themselves.

You’re talking about a marsupial the size of a toddler against a giant panda

Larger organisms need more energy to survive
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:27 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:
So I take it you won't seek medical attention when you need it? After all, you believe in the survival of the fittest, no?

Natural selection may be a phenomenon in nature, but it can be prevented. Cellphones weren't a part of the natural biosphere, modern medicine neither. Humans literally show that the environment and biology can be manipulated. Hiding behind the "natural selection" is therefore incredibly weak and hypocritical, because if we have the ability to alter things, why not alter things for a good cause for a change, such as preserving an endangered species?

As for the first point, I think another poster said this, but someone with the intellect to go to the doctor is automatically fitter than someone who doesn’t

As for the second one, I think you’re missing the point in the OP, we’re spending what could be billions of dollars (not to mention handing money to an oppressive communist regime) to save what’s basically a creature that was going to die out anyways. Meanwhile, there are organisms such as the Indian mangrove, which is absolutely the backbone of the coastal South and SE Asian ecosystem, that doesn’t get any attention at all, probably because it’s not cute and marketable enough. I’m not against conservation at all, the panda is just not the one to be spending billions on


I take it you'll adopt the same mindset should someone have to decide whether you'd be worth saving, keeping alive? After all, why should taxpayers be spending money on keeping you healthy/alive? It's the same question, but I wonder if you'll provide the same answer.
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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:29 pm

Cedoria wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:As for the first point, I think another poster said this, but someone with the intellect to go to the doctor is automatically fitter than someone who doesn’t

As for the second one, I think you’re missing the point in the OP, we’re spending what could be billions of dollars (not to mention handing money to an oppressive communist regime) to save what’s basically a creature that was going to die out anyways. Meanwhile, there are organisms such as the Indian mangrove, which is absolutely the backbone of the coastal South and SE Asian ecosystem, that doesn’t get any attention at all, probably because it’s not cute and marketable enough. I’m not against conservation at all, the panda is just not the one to be spending billions on


"I'm not against conservation but I don't want to spend money saving a creature that would go extinct without the conservation we spend on them, which is the whole point of conservation".

Probably best to quit while you're ahead OP. Also, of all the myriad ways the West hands money over to the PRC on a plate, this is probably one of the least objectionable.

Billions of dollars on a species that was going to die out anyways? Versus species that actually need saving but barely get attention? Is that not conservation?
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:32 pm

Mettaton-EX wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:Natural selection has been proven over and over again by science, ever since Darwin first theorized evolution

the existence of natural selection doesn't mean other selection factors don't exist...?


Adding to that the fact that humans have been bending and twisting the rules of biology for a while now, with science and technology. That only proves that "natural selection" is not a finite concept and can in fact be made a thing of the past.
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Confederate Norway
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Postby Confederate Norway » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:38 pm

I so disagree. I guess by that logic we should let all domestic pets go into the wild and die because of natural selection. Pandas give humans joy like dogs and because humans like them they should be saved.

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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:39 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
Cedoria wrote:
"I'm not against conservation but I don't want to spend money saving a creature that would go extinct without the conservation we spend on them, which is the whole point of conservation".

Probably best to quit while you're ahead OP. Also, of all the myriad ways the West hands money over to the PRC on a plate, this is probably one of the least objectionable.

Billions of dollars on a species that was going to die out anyways? Versus species that actually need saving but barely get attention? Is that not conservation?


Then I ask you your own question: why should taxpayers spend money on your healthcare bills etc if you're going to die one day anyway as well? Or would you prefer that, since we have the ability to help/treat you, we should?
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:01 pm

They could at least put a bit of effort in themselves.
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Das Zweite Deutsche Kaiserreich
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Postby Das Zweite Deutsche Kaiserreich » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:07 pm

Yes because we can not let another animal species go extinct

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Kragholm Free States
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:09 pm

Das Zweite Deutsche Kaiserreich wrote:Yes because we can not let another animal species go extinct


Bad news for you, quite a few already have today. And yesterday. And the day before that. That's just life.

Well, it's just death, but you know what I mean. Might as well make the best of it and eat pandas.
Last edited by Kragholm Free States on Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Das Zweite Deutsche Kaiserreich
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Postby Das Zweite Deutsche Kaiserreich » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:12 pm

And also according to the WWF Giant pandas help to keep their mountain forests healthy by spreading seeds in their droppings, which helps vegetation to thrive.

The panda’s forest environment is also important for local people – for food, income, and fuel for cooking and heating. Giant pandas live in the mountain catchment areas of the Yangtze and Yellow rivers, whose river basins are the economic heart of China, home to over half a billion people.

Panda habitat rivals the highest biodiversity of any ecosystem in the world. It's also vitally important for other threatened and endangered species, including golden snub-nosed monkeys, takins, red pandas and snow leopards.

By protecting pandas we’re helping conserve the wider environment, for the people and wildlife that depend on it.

Source: https://www.wwf.org.uk/wildlife/giant-pandas

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The San Diego Zoo
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Postby The San Diego Zoo » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Yes! Save the pandas!

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Kragholm Free States
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:18 pm

The San Diego Zoo wrote:Yes! Save the pandas!

Have you been waiting here since 2013 to post that? :p
Last edited by Kragholm Free States on Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Maple Sryup
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Postby Maple Sryup » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:21 pm

It is very much worth saving!
Even if they would have died out without us, they are still worth saving.
Us humans have killed so many species, we should at least save some right?

and they are FLUFFY

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Dytarma
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Postby Dytarma » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:25 pm

Of course not, they're so lazy they don't want to mate, they only eat one food which they can't digest, and their fur isn't even soft and fluffy. I could make a VvC with their species and a species worth saving.
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Temporarrium
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Postby Temporarrium » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:26 pm

I don't question whether a species is worth saving since I am not even legally obligated to spend my time and resources on the efforts. If there are people who want to spend their moolah on conservation instead of using it for "truly important things", then let them do it.

Maybe the other endangered species just need more media exposure and campaigns, yes?
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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:55 pm

Maple Sryup wrote:It is very much worth saving!
Even if they would have died out without us, they are still worth saving.
Us humans have killed so many species, we should at least save some right?

and they are FLUFFY

Because they’re fluffy? That’s worth billions of dollars?

The San Diego Zoo wrote:Yes! Save the pandas!

Why? (Also is this an official zoo account? :p)
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:14 pm

Kragholm Free States wrote:
The San Diego Zoo wrote:Yes! Save the pandas!

Have you been waiting here since 2013 to post that? :p


Probably a puppet who doesn't want to come on the radar of the anti-Panda movement.
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The Lune
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Postby The Lune » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:10 pm

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Hehe, perhaps :p
It's noted that the description on what the meat tastes like is very rare, though:



Let's just see :p


All the more reason to find out, and document it properly


I love that people on here are discussing what panda tastes like.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:28 pm

No.
Not for the OP’s reasons, but no.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:29 pm

Kowani wrote:No.
Not for the OP’s reasons, but no.

Death to pandas! :p

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:31 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Kowani wrote:No.
Not for the OP’s reasons, but no.

Death to pandas! :p

Don’t hunt them, either.
Just let it happen.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:31 pm

Kowani wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Death to pandas! :p

Don’t hunt them, either.
Just let it happen.

No, I want to eat one.

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GLDF
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Postby GLDF » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:00 pm

Given problems in the wild, they should just be collected for captivity and bred until they are in high demand. Increase the population and possibly add some anti-animal cruelty measures for zoos and it's a perfect compromise.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:58 am

Aureumterra wrote:
Maple Sryup wrote:It is very much worth saving!
Even if they would have died out without us, they are still worth saving.
Us humans have killed so many species, we should at least save some right?

and they are FLUFFY

Because they’re fluffy? That’s worth billions of dollars?

The San Diego Zoo wrote:Yes! Save the pandas!

Why? (Also is this an official zoo account? :p)


You keep repeating the same lines over and over again, but I haven't seen you respond to my counter-question. So, to mimic you, I am going to repeat myself:

If your life was on the line, if your health was threatened, would you want someone to ask "is Aureumterra worth saving, I mean it will cost the taxpayer a lot" or, since we have the ability and means, would you prefer to be treated? Because if you truly believe in "natural selection", if you truly believe that survival of the fittest is the rule, I honestly expect you to decline medical attention or any form of help throughout your entire life. Because otherwise you're a hypocrite of mastodontic proportions and honestly, your arguments have absolutely no value at all.

And the same goes for everyone here saying "oh yeah kill the pandas, eat them". I expect all of you to be tough, living off the land, hunting and foraging, letting your body heal itself without any medical aid should the need arise, no welfare, no help from any organisation or person. Because otherwise, you're just a bunch of hypocrites with a severe lack of empathy, if you ask me.
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