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Greta Thunberg: Enviromental Activist or Forced Puppet?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is Greta Thunberg a genuine environment activist or a puppet?

Genuine Activist
182
49%
Puppet controlled by Left Wing/ her parents
100
27%
Annoying environmental activist
56
15%
Lizard people
33
9%
 
Total votes : 371

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:12 pm

Kirina wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
It's real by every conceivable metric - only through pure and complete ignorance or malice can someone claim otherwise.

And shit, if it isn't, we'd still be creating a better tomorrow.


Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.

This is simply so beyond wrong that I can't even determine whether are you trying to satirize climate change deniers, or whether are you so misinformed that you believe that scientists predicted "global cooling" in the 1950s. It has been known since 1896 that CO2 has an warming effect on the Earth's climate, ever since Svante Arrhenius first documented the greenhouse effect in a laboratory experiment, and no scientific literature related to global cooling was published in the 50s. Hell, an documentary published in 1958 (The high time of Eisenhower-style conservatism) featured a climatologist postulating as to what the effects of a warming Earth as a result of increased CO2 emissions would be, and is available here:
https://youtu.be/m-AXBbuDxRY

And the vast majority of scientific papers published in the 1970s predicted global warming, and were proven very right once the temperature data started coming in and the puzzle pieces came together, thus discrediting the minority of scientists who predicted global cooling:
Mainstream Media
"What was the scientific consensus in the 1970s regarding future climate? The most cited example of 1970s cooling predictions is a 1975 Newsweek article "The Cooling World" that suggested cooling "may portend a drastic decline for food production."

"Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend… But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century."

A 1974 Time magazine article Another Ice Age? painted a similarly bleak picture:

"When meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe, they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age."

Peer-Reviewed Literature
However, these are media articles, not scientific studies. A survey of peer reviewed scientific papers from 1965 to 1979 show that few papers predicted global cooling (7 in total). Significantly more papers (42 in total) predicted global warming (Peterson 2008). The large majority of climate research in the 1970s predicted the Earth would warm as a consequence of CO2. Rather than 1970s scientists predicting cooling, the opposite is the case.
Image
Figure 1: Number of papers classified as predicting global cooling (blue) or warming (red). In no year were there more cooling papers than warming papers (Peterson 2008).

Scientific Consensus
In the 1970s, the most comprehensive study on climate change (and the closest thing to a scientific consensus at the time) was the 1975 US National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council Report. Their basic conclusion was "…we do not have a good quantitative understanding of our climate machine and what determines its course. Without the fundamental understanding, it does not seem possible to predict climate…"

This is in strong contrast with the current position of the US National Academy of Sciences: "...there is now strong evidence that significant global warming is occurring... It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities... The scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action." This is in a joint statement with the Academies of Science from Brazil, France, Canada, China, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United Kingdom.

In contrast to the 1970s, there are now a number of scientific bodies that have released statements affirming man-made global warming:
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Environmental Protection Agency
NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies
American Geophysical Union
American Institute of Physics
National Center for Atmospheric Research
American Meteorological Society
The Royal Society of the UK
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
American Association for the Advancement of Science

Reasoning Behind Cooling Predictions
Quite often, the justification for the few global cooling predictions in the 1970s is overlooked. Probably the most famous such prediction was Rasool and Schneider (1971):

"An increase by only a factor of 4 in global aerosol background concentration may be sufficient to reduce the surface temperature by as much as 3.5°K."

Yes, their global cooling projection was based on a quadrupling of atmospheric aerosol concentration. This wasn't an entirely unrealistic scenario - after all, sulfur dioxide (SO2) emissions were accelerating quite rapidly up until the early 1970s (Figure 2). These emissions caused various environmental problems, and as a result, a number of countries, including the USA, enacted SO2 limits through Clean Air Acts. As a result, not only did atmospheric aerosol concentrations not quadruple, they declined starting in the late 1970s:
Image
Figure 2: Global sulfur dioxide emissions by source (PNNL)

Similarly, if we now limit CO2 emissions, we can also eventually get global warming under control.

Summary
So global cooling predictions in the 70s amounted to media and a handful of peer reviewed studies. The small number of papers predicting cooling were outweighed by a much greater number of papers predicting global warming due to the warming effect of rising CO2. Today, an avalanche of peer reviewed studies and overwhelming scientific consensus endorse man-made global warming. To compare cooling predictions in the 70s to the current situation is both inappropriate and misleading. Additionally, we reduced the SO2 emissions which were causing global cooling. The question remains whether we will reduce the CO2 emissions causing global warming.

Intermediate rebuttal written by John Cook."
Source: https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-pr ... ediate.htm
And just in case you thought climate change was "made up" by Al Gore, here is another round of debunking for you:
Global Warming vs. Climate Change

"Both of the terms in question are used frequently in the scientific literature, because they refer to two different physical phenomena. As the name suggests, 'global warming' refers to the long-term trend of a rising average global temperature, which you can see here: Image

'Climate change', again as the name suggests, refers to the changes in the global climate which result from the increasing average global temperature. For example, changes in precipitation patterns, increased prevalence of droughts, heat waves, and other extreme weather, etc.
These projections of future global precipitation changes from the 2007 IPCC report are an example of climate change:

Image

Thus, while the physical phenomena are causally related, they are not the same thing. Human greenhouse gas emissions are causing global warming, which in turn is causing climate change. However, because the terms are causally related, they are often used interchangeably in normal daily communications.

Both Terms Have Long Been Used

The argument "they changed the name" suggests that the term 'global warming' was previously the norm, and the widespread use of the term 'climate change' is now. However, this is simply untrue. For example, a seminal climate science work is Gilbert Plass' 1956 study 'The Carbon Dioxide Theory of Climatic Change' (which coincidentally estimated the climate sensitivity to a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide at 3.6°C, not far off from today's widely accepted most likely value of 3°C).

Barrett and Gast published a letter in Science in 1971 entitled simply 'Climate Change'. The journal 'Climatic Change' was created in 1977 (and is still published today). The IPCC was formed in 1988, and of course the 'CC' is 'climate change', not 'global warming'. There are many, many other examples of the use of the term 'climate change' many decades ago. There is nothing new whatsoever about the usage of the term. In fact, according to Google Books, the usage of both terms in books published in the United States has increased at similar rates over the past 40 years:
Image: https://skepticalscience.com/pics/CCvGW.bmp

And a Google Scholar search reveals that the term 'climate change' was in use before the term 'global warming', and has always been the more commonly-used term in scientific literature:
Image
No Reason to Change the Term
Those who perpetuate the "they changed the name" myth generally suggest two reasons for the supposed terminology change. Either because (i) the planet supposedly stopped warming, and thus the term 'global warming' is no longer accurate, or (ii) the term 'climate change' is more frightening.

The first premise is demonstrably wrong, as the first figure above shows the planet is still warming, and is still accumulating heat. Quite simply, global warming has not stopped.

The second premise is also wrong, as demonstrated by perhaps the only individual to actually advocate changing the term from 'global warming' to 'climate change', Republican political strategist Frank Luntz in a controversial memo advising conservative politicians on communicating about the environment:

It’s time for us to start talking about “climate change” instead of global warming and “conservation” instead of preservation.

“Climate change” is less frightening than “global warming”. As one focus group participant noted, climate change “sounds like you’re going from Pittsburgh to Fort Lauderdale.” While global warming has catastrophic connotations attached to it, climate change suggests a more controllable and less emotional challenge.

Summary
So to sum up, although the terms are used interchangeably because they are causally related, 'global warming' and 'climate change' refer to different physical phenomena. The term 'climate change' has been used frequently in the scientific literature for many decades, and the usage of both terms has increased over the past 40 years. Moreover, since the planet continues to warm, there is no reason to change the terminology. Perhaps the only individual to advocate the change was Frank Luntz, a Republican political strategist and global warming skeptic, who used focus group results to determine that the term 'climate change' is less frightening to the general public than 'global warming'. There is simply no factual basis whatsoever to the myth "they changed the name from global warming to climate change".

Basic rebuttal written by GPWayne."
Source: https://skepticalscience.com/climate-ch ... arming.htm
Last edited by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia on Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Thepeopl
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Postby Thepeopl » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:43 am


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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:49 am

Thepeopl wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

It really has been a concern

Yeah, for a time it was hypothesized, but was quickly rendered moot once the temperature data clearly indicated a warming anomaly, not a cooling anomaly.

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Thepeopl
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Postby Thepeopl » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:54 am

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:
Thepeopl wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

It really has been a concern

Yeah, for a time it was hypothesized, but was quickly rendered moot once the temperature data clearly indicated a warming anomaly, not a cooling anomaly.


True. Just wanted to point out that scientists in 1950 really thought this, though they were a minority. More scientists in 1950 warned for global warming.

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:32 am

Thepeopl wrote:
Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:Yeah, for a time it was hypothesized, but was quickly rendered moot once the temperature data clearly indicated a warming anomaly, not a cooling anomaly.


True. Just wanted to point out that scientists in 1950 really thought this, though they were a minority.

A very tiny minority, so tiny in fact that only really dedicated observers could single them out.

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:27 am

Kirina wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
It's real by every conceivable metric - only through pure and complete ignorance or malice can someone claim otherwise.

And shit, if it isn't, we'd still be creating a better tomorrow.


Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


Stop lying.
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Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

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Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:57 am

The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile wrote:?
Yeah, no. Being autistic doesn't make you easily manipulated. Rather the opposite, in fact.

Really? Are you speaking from personally experience, or just out of thin air?

Here is an article from someone with Asperger's which details the "traps and manipulations" autistic people may find themselves caught up in.


Neurotypical (non-autistic) behavior can be confusing to autistics and in that way they can feel to be 'manipulated' but it's a two-way street; autistic behavior is also confusing to neurotypicals. Autistic people are not fundamentally more vulnerable to manipulation. As an autistic myself, I love looking through various news sources to see how they manipulate their audience with small changes in their wording, which synonyms they use etc.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Estanglia
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Postby Estanglia » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:14 pm

Kirina wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
It's real by every conceivable metric - only through pure and complete ignorance or malice can someone claim otherwise.

And shit, if it isn't, we'd still be creating a better tomorrow.


Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


Everything else aside, how the hell does "climate change" limit responsibility?
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:52 am

Estanglia wrote:
Kirina wrote:
Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


Everything else aside, how the hell does "climate change" limit responsibility?

It restricts our freedom to fuck other people over. :^)
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Tombradyonia
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Postby Tombradyonia » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:46 am

Kirina wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
It's real by every conceivable metric - only through pure and complete ignorance or malice can someone claim otherwise.

And shit, if it isn't, we'd still be creating a better tomorrow.


Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


A straight copy/paste from some conservative forums, where ignorance reigns supreme as it does in so many of them (not all, I'm not saying that).

And as for limiting responsibility, I think you'll find its the right wing that wants to duck human responsibility and place profits über alles.
And your freedom is already limited, since you don't have the freedom to kill another person, nor does another person have the freedom to kill you.

Meanwhile, the right wing is busy limiting people's freedoms just about every day, and seeking to impose their religious nonsense on us all. But that's off topic.

I've posted elsewhere that the Global Ecological Footprint was estimated in 2014 to be 1.7 (meaning we consume 70% more resources every year than the planet is able to generate).
https://www.footprintnetwork.org/our-wo ... footprint/
https://www.overshootday.org/newsroom/c ... hoot-days/

This 1.7 is for the planet as a whole. Most western countries (except Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland) are way over 2 and in many cases even way over 3.
So, besides the world as a whole using up resources faster than the earth can generate them, the western world (along with much of the Middle Eastern oil countries) uses disproportionately even more than the average.

How much wealth has to be surrendered in order to get the number back to 1.0? The answer is: so much, no party proposing it would have even an outside chance at an outside chance at an outside chance of winning any election at any level.

No one is gonna vote for that. Not even the progressive graduates because they really don't want to give up on "travelling the world" before they start their careers. Because that would be a personal sacrifice and we can't have that, can we?
Last edited by Tombradyonia on Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Page
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Postby Page » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:58 am

Kirina wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
It's real by every conceivable metric - only through pure and complete ignorance or malice can someone claim otherwise.

And shit, if it isn't, we'd still be creating a better tomorrow.


Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


If we wanted to "limit responsibility", we wouldn't care about climate change - it is a responsibility to mitigate the severity of climate change for the sake of all people. Someone who doesn't believe in responsibility would be apathetic to carbon emissions and pollution.

As for "human freedom", lots of people are going to lose that freedom over the next few centuries because they'll be dead from severe hurricanes, wildfires, drought and all the wars that are going to be fought over water. You can't be free if you're dead.
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State of Turelisa
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Postby State of Turelisa » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:07 am

I formerly knew so little about her, and, looking through publicised information about her personal life, I was astonished to learn she is a distant relative of Svante Arrhenius.
Svante Arrhenius was a Swedish scientist who was one of the founders of the science of physical chemistry, and he used the basic principles of his pioneering science to conclude human-caused CO2 emissions were contributing to global warming.

Science has proven that the massive consumption of fossil fuels in the last two centuries, and the steady increase of global temperatures during that time are concomitant.
We're now at an existential point where blissful ignorance has been replaced with an equally dangerous disingenousness and fatalistic apathy which denies our collective responsibility for the wrecking and spoilage of the Earth. The Earth is a gift which we inherit for a short lease, and we are expected to treat with reverence.
Last edited by State of Turelisa on Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:40 am, edited 5 times in total.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:42 am

State of Turelisa wrote:I formerly knew so little about her, and, looking through publicised information about her personal life, I was astonished to learn she is a distant relative of Svante Arrhenius.
Svante Arrhenius was a Swedish scientist who was one of the founders of the science of physical chemistry, and he used the basic principles of his pioneering science to conclude human-caused CO2 emissions were contributing to global warming.

That's a pretty odd coincidence, to the point where it may not be a coincidence at all...
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Postby BeatsMe » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:07 am

It is sad that the symbol for environment is mentally challenged girl, that:
1. has not earned a dime in her life
2. spends large amount of money to travel for weaks on the nice boat or travels on 1st class trains with supporters (compared to cheap flights), and lives in nice hotels.
3. generally only thing she does is travel around. She does not attend the school.
4. by the way she is 16 years old, - she neither looks nor acts as such.
5. and all her message is:- YOU all must spend more of your money on environment, and no, me personaly NEVER ever gona earn any or pay any taxes. I plan for state, charities and not taxable environment funds to provide for me all my life.

Even in rich countries most people can afford the lifestyle this girl lives. Not to mention poorer countries.

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Postby Albrenia » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:36 am

BeatsMe wrote:It is sad that the symbol for environment is mentally challenged girl, that:
1. has not earned a dime in her life
2. spends large amount of money to travel for weaks on the nice boat or travels on 1st class trains with supporters (compared to cheap flights), and lives in nice hotels.
3. generally only thing she does is travel around. She does not attend the school.
4. by the way she is 16 years old, - she neither looks nor acts as such.
5. and all her message is:- YOU all must spend more of your money on environment, and no, me personaly NEVER ever gona earn any or pay any taxes. I plan for state, charities and not taxable environment funds to provide for me all my life.

Even in rich countries most people can afford the lifestyle this girl lives. Not to mention poorer countries.


None of which has anything to do with her message, least of all point 5.

The only one which has any merit at all is that she should probably be going to school. Seems that her family and Greta herself don't think so, though.

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Postby Antityranicals » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:43 am

Page wrote:
Kirina wrote:
Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


If we wanted to "limit responsibility", we wouldn't care about climate change - it is a responsibility to mitigate the severity of climate change for the sake of all people. Someone who doesn't believe in responsibility would be apathetic to carbon emissions and pollution.

As for "human freedom", lots of people are going to lose that freedom over the next few centuries because they'll be dead from severe hurricanes, wildfires, drought and all the wars that are going to be fought over water. You can't be free if you're dead.

None of these things you list are worse than the consequences of ceasing to use fossil fuels.
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Postby Antityranicals » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:45 am

Tombradyonia wrote:
Kirina wrote:
Actually in the 1950s the big scare was “global cooling”. Exact opposite of today. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.

And no we would not. Americans are being disfigured in accidents every day that they might have escaped unscathed were it not for idiotic regulations on metal. Not cool.

“Climate change” is just one of the many, many ways the cunning Left attempts to limit responsibility and human freedom.


A straight copy/paste from some conservative forums, where ignorance reigns supreme as it does in so many of them (not all, I'm not saying that).

And as for limiting responsibility, I think you'll find its the right wing that wants to duck human responsibility and place profits über alles.
And your freedom is already limited, since you don't have the freedom to kill another person, nor does another person have the freedom to kill you.

Meanwhile, the right wing is busy limiting people's freedoms just about every day, and seeking to impose their religious nonsense on us all. But that's off topic.

I've posted elsewhere that the Global Ecological Footprint was estimated in 2014 to be 1.7 (meaning we consume 70% more resources every year than the planet is able to generate).
https://www.footprintnetwork.org/our-wo ... footprint/
https://www.overshootday.org/newsroom/c ... hoot-days/

This 1.7 is for the planet as a whole. Most western countries (except Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland) are way over 2 and in many cases even way over 3.
So, besides the world as a whole using up resources faster than the earth can generate them, the western world (along with much of the Middle Eastern oil countries) uses disproportionately even more than the average.

How much wealth has to be surrendered in order to get the number back to 1.0? The answer is: so much, no party proposing it would have even an outside chance at an outside chance at an outside chance of winning any election at any level.

No one is gonna vote for that. Not even the progressive graduates because they really don't want to give up on "travelling the world" before they start their careers. Because that would be a personal sacrifice and we can't have that, can we?

No one is gonna vote for that, because that means real people starving and dying. Why can't y'all wrap your heads around the fact that the cheap energy which fossil fuels bring literally saves lives?
Last edited by Antityranicals on Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
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Postby BeatsMe » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:53 am

First I believe that climate change should be addressed.
But that must be advocated by reasonable person with reasonable ideas. Or any ideas at all.
As of Greata, only possible employment she can have is board member of some fund, that is (most likely) directly or indirectly (tax refunds to donors) funded by taxpayers.
It is as opposed to doing any usefull job in said fund, because you need education for that. Or doing any usefull manual job, because nobody gona employ housekeeper or shop assistant, that randomly yells at other people (as she did in UN).
So Greatas message to young people actually is: To succeed in life you don’t need education, hard work or even having rudimentary social skills, such as politeness. Quit school, travel in style around, don't work and simply yell at everyone you don’t like. You will be instant press darling and rolemodel. And yes state (other people) will provide for you, because you both are unemployed and disadvantaged.
Last edited by BeatsMe on Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pilipinas and Malaya
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:58 am

Antityranicals wrote:
Tombradyonia wrote:
A straight copy/paste from some conservative forums, where ignorance reigns supreme as it does in so many of them (not all, I'm not saying that).

And as for limiting responsibility, I think you'll find its the right wing that wants to duck human responsibility and place profits über alles.
And your freedom is already limited, since you don't have the freedom to kill another person, nor does another person have the freedom to kill you.

Meanwhile, the right wing is busy limiting people's freedoms just about every day, and seeking to impose their religious nonsense on us all. But that's off topic.

I've posted elsewhere that the Global Ecological Footprint was estimated in 2014 to be 1.7 (meaning we consume 70% more resources every year than the planet is able to generate).
https://www.footprintnetwork.org/our-wo ... footprint/
https://www.overshootday.org/newsroom/c ... hoot-days/

This 1.7 is for the planet as a whole. Most western countries (except Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland) are way over 2 and in many cases even way over 3.
So, besides the world as a whole using up resources faster than the earth can generate them, the western world (along with much of the Middle Eastern oil countries) uses disproportionately even more than the average.

How much wealth has to be surrendered in order to get the number back to 1.0? The answer is: so much, no party proposing it would have even an outside chance at an outside chance at an outside chance of winning any election at any level.

No one is gonna vote for that. Not even the progressive graduates because they really don't want to give up on "travelling the world" before they start their careers. Because that would be a personal sacrifice and we can't have that, can we?

No one is gonna vote for that, because that means real people starving and dying. Why can't y'all wrap your heads around the fact that the cheap energy which fossil fuels bring literally saves lives?


When (yes, it’s not a question of “if”) the usage of clean energy proliferates, the prices will eventually get cheaper as the non-renewable sources begin to decline in number. Fossil fuels literally kill people because of the smoke they produce which in turn lowers the rates of air quality, which results in respiratory diseases/conditions. You’re exaggerating the effect of the price raise to quite a high number, and frankly, that’s likely not to happen.
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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:00 am

BeatsMe wrote:First I believe that climate change should be addressed.
But that must be advocated by reasonable person with reasonable ideas. Or any ideas at all.
As of Greata, only possible employment she can have is board member of some fund, that is (most likely) directly or indirectly (tax refunds to donors) funded by taxpayers.
It is as opposed to doing any usefull job in said fund, because you need education for that. Or doing any usefull manual job, because nobody gona employ housekeeper or shop assistant, that randomly yells at other people (as she did in UN).
So Greatas message to young people actually is: To succeed in life you don’t need education, hard work or even having rudimentary social skills, such as politeness. Quit school, travel in style around, don't work and simply yell at everyone you don’t like. You will be instant press darling and rolemodel. And yes state (other people) will provide for you, because you both are unemployed and disadvantaged.


She is 16, why should she be employed?
Anarcho-Communist Against: Bolsheviks, Fascists, TERFs, Putin, Autocrats, Conservatives, Ancaps, Bourgeoisie, Bigots, Liberals, Maoists

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:02 am

While she certainly did yell at people, it was not 'random'.

Also, there's plenty of people with ideas about climate change, it's not like Greta is the only person speaking about it. She's just famous for whatever reason, probably because she managed to trigger some world leaders who take offence to people trying to hold them accountable in even the smallest way.
Last edited by Albrenia on Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BeatsMe
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Founded: Jan 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby BeatsMe » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:09 am

She does not need to employed now. But she can't have any (socialy usefull) employment in future either. Except, of course, beeing a board member in government funded (either directly, international or through tax refunds) institution or via inheriting a wealth.
She will have no education for any job that requires any amount of skill. An no character for any manual job. Dropping from school at age 14 or earlier generally is not associated with useful skills. And a board member she will not be usefull either, she will just take place and pay of some other person, that could actually do something.

By the way, as school dropout she would (socialy) be expected to be employed in less than two years in future (as she will be 18). My bet: she still be traveling..
Last edited by BeatsMe on Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:14 am

BeatsMe wrote:She does not need to employed now. But she can't have any (socialy usefull) employment in future either. Except, of course, beeing a board member in government funded (either directly, international or through tax refunds) institution or via inheriting a wealth.
She will have no education for any job that requires any amount of skill. An no character for any manual job. Dropping from school at age 14 or earlier generally is not associated with useful skills. And a board member she will not be usefull either, she will just take place and pay of some other person, that could actually do something.


That's terrible, I guess?

She wouldn't be alone in making a career doing nothing useful.

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Page
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:15 am

BeatsMe wrote:She does not need to employed now. But she can't have any (socialy usefull) employment in future either. Except, of course, beeing a board member in government funded (either directly, international or through tax refunds) institution or via inheriting a wealth.
She will have no education for any job that requires any amount of skill. An no character for any manual job. Dropping from school at age 14 or earlier generally is not associated with useful skills. And a board member she will not be usefull either, she will just take place and pay of some other person, that could actually do something.


Education isn't a thing with a ticking clock that you get one shot at one time and then is gone forever. She has plenty of options now and in the future. Private tutors, online schooling, these things exist.

I stopped going to high school halfway through my sophomore year. I passed the GED test easily and enrolled in a local college and I have a Bachelor's degree now.
Anarcho-Communist Against: Bolsheviks, Fascists, TERFs, Putin, Autocrats, Conservatives, Ancaps, Bourgeoisie, Bigots, Liberals, Maoists

I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

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Salandriagado
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Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:01 am

BeatsMe wrote:It is sad that the symbol for environment is mentally challenged girl, that:
1. has not earned a dime in her life
2. spends large amount of money to travel for weaks on the nice boat or travels on 1st class trains with supporters (compared to cheap flights), and lives in nice hotels.
3. generally only thing she does is travel around. She does not attend the school.
4. by the way she is 16 years old, - she neither looks nor acts as such.
5. and all her message is:- YOU all must spend more of your money on environment, and no, me personaly NEVER ever gona earn any or pay any taxes. I plan for state, charities and not taxable environment funds to provide for me all my life.

Even in rich countries most people can afford the lifestyle this girl lives. Not to mention poorer countries.


What a remarkable pile of lies.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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