Why do we sanction North Korea?

[Neanderthaland]

My great aunt used to live and work in The U.S.S.R so I've had a secondhand experience with this.
It still doesn't change my view though that sanctions on NK are hypocritical

So they're hypocritical.

But they're not undeserved.

[The New California Republic]

Maybe it's because of the dictator who threatens to nuke everyone. Just a thought.

They've explicitly stated that they will only use them in self defense.

This is coming from the same regime that claims that it never started the Korean War and that it won the Korean War. Can you see why people have problems with believing what they say?

[Vivolkha]

They've explicitly stated that they will only use them in self defense.

This is coming from the same regime that claims that it never started the Korean War and that it won the Korean War. Can you see why people have problems with believing what they say?

Is that the first example that crossed through your mind? How about just about anything they say about their own human rights record?
Also, they have an entire museum dedicated to fake American atrocities in the Korean War.

[The New California Republic]

This is coming from the same regime that claims that it never started the Korean War and that it won the Korean War. Can you see why people have problems with believing what they say?

Is that the first example that crossed through your mind?

Why not? They are the earliest examples of their lying and the longest running ones, and they are directly related to warfare, so they are the most pertinent examples...

[Arumdaum]

They've explicitly stated that they will only use them in self defense.

This is coming from the same regime that claims that it never started the Korean War and that it won the Korean War. Can you see why people have problems with believing what they say?

There's a difference between necessary, strategic defense calculations and propaganda, just saying.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

My great aunt used to live and work in The U.S.S.R so I've had a secondhand experience with this.
It still doesn't change my view though that sanctions on NK are hypocritical

The North Korean, Venezuelan and Cuban governments eternal undemocratic revolutions need to be overthrown one way or another, whatever it takes.

Let North Korea reunite with South Korea and Make Korea Great Again.

Make Venezuela and Cuba Great Again, I visited Venezuela about a year and a half before Chavez took power, to help my Cuban family members who emigrated to Venezuela legally the right way, just explaining my knowledge and connection to Venezuela and the Venezuelan People.

I have added my previous thread related post to my new post adding and contributing an extra statement above to the thread, I am not breaking any NS rules, just saying just in case.
Like I said:
lol, I'm a native Cuban, I used to work with 2 North Koreans, a Vietnamese Lady and a Nicaraguan Lady, on our hour long break we used to talk in English and share stories about our nations and we found out we had a lot in common, the dictatorship, the so called volunteer labor, the revolutions and no freedoms. The Vietnamese Lady's favorite saying is what I love most about America is the freedoms and that in America we are all Americans. The Nicaraguan Lady was a young university student in Nicaragua during the Sandinista Communist government, supported by the leftist Liberal Democrats in congress at the time, and Bernie Sanders, she was sent to Cuba by the Sandinista Communists to work on a Cuban government farm as so called voluntary labor, she had to sing and chant revolutionary songs and slogans like No Pasaran, they shall not Pass, she lost her 3 brothers fighting for the Contras in Nicaragua, lol.

[Vivolkha]

This is coming from the same regime that claims that it never started the Korean War and that it won the Korean War. Can you see why people have problems with believing what they say?

There's a difference between necessary, strategic defense calculations and propaganda, just saying.

Spending a disproportionate amount of your limited budget (>25% iirc) on the army and on WMDs in particular are not "necessary strategic calculations".

[The New California Republic]

This is coming from the same regime that claims that it never started the Korean War and that it won the Korean War. Can you see why people have problems with believing what they say?

There's a difference between necessary, strategic defense calculations and propaganda, just saying.

Not really. The lies are in the same basic area, i.e. warfare. If I repeatedly told lies about, say, the weather forecast, would it be reasonable to ever believe what I say on that subject?

[Arumdaum]

There's a difference between necessary, strategic defense calculations and propaganda, just saying.

Spending a disproportionate amount of your limited budget (>25% iirc) on the army and on WMDs in particular are not "necessary strategic calculations".

The large military focus in North Korea is a way to deter any invasion from any of its neighbors. This became particularly apparent for North Korea following the US invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya, events which caused North Korea to pursue their attainment of nuclear weapons even more quickly.

There have also been arguments that North Korea's pursuit of nuclear weapons are also a way to spend reduce spending on its massive conventional military.

[Arumdaum]

There's a difference between necessary, strategic defense calculations and propaganda, just saying.

Not really. The lies are in the same basic area, i.e. warfare. If I repeatedly told lies about, say, the weather forecast, would it be reasonable to ever believe what I say on that subject?

The Korean War was in the past and its claims of both initial US aggression and NK's own victory are a way to paint the US as an aggressor and to help legitimize the current regime's rule. In other words, it's mostly about history and legitimacy, even though the subject is what happened during a war.

Nuclear weapons, on the other hand, are a sensitive topic with significant international consequences.

One is meant for an internal audience. The other, while still having internal propaganda value, is primarily for external reasons. They're different.

[Anostas]

This has led to sanctions being imposed:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2w&ampcf=1


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 0G&ampcf=1



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... sIdsn-28qR


For the same reason, Afghanistan, occupied Kosovo, Iraq and Libya were destroyed because of damn American belligerent imperialism.

[Vivolkha]

My great aunt used to live and work in The U.S.S.R so I've had a secondhand experience with this.
It still doesn't change my view though that sanctions on NK are hypocritical

The North Korean, Venezuelan and Cuban governments eternal undemocratic revolutions need to be overthrown one way or another, whatever it takes.

It's not that easy, and the US and most of Latin America have wasted the opportunity to militarily overthrow Maduro.
Also, there are a lot more governments that deserve to be on that list - without leaving America, there's Ortega's Nicaragua as well.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

My great aunt used to live and work in The U.S.S.R so I've had a secondhand experience with this.
It still doesn't change my view though that sanctions on NK are hypocritical

So they're hypocritical.

But they're not undeserved.

I agree they are not undeserved.

The problem with overthrowing North Korea are the nuclear arms and a crazy evil leader, even anti government rebels might cause the crazy evil dictator to use them against South Korea, if he really is as crazy in an evil way as his reputation is, the evil dictator part is natural.

[Arumdaum]

This has led to sanctions being imposed:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2w&ampcf=1


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 0G&ampcf=1



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... sIdsn-28qR


For the same reason, Afghanistan, occupied Kosovo, Iraq and Libya were destroyed because of damn American belligerent imperialism.

I think it's only fairly recently this was found out, and American aggression toward North Korea started well before this. The bigger reason appears to be the prevention of nuclear proliferation and the excuse that North Korea provides the US to have troops and missile systems placed near China, which the US sees as a threat.

[-Ocelot-]

My great aunt used to live and work in The U.S.S.R so I've had a secondhand experience with this.
It still doesn't change my view though that sanctions on NK are hypocritical

The USSR had 25-30 million slaves at any time during its existence. At least the "hypocritical" west doesn't have 10% of it's population in work camps and the rest 1 order away from execution.

[Arumdaum]

That's all nice and well but you people are not answering the OP's question. He did not say that the DPRK was a good place to live. Just that on paper it seems no more shitty than many of the places the west gleefully calls their ally.

The mistake people are making here is that the sanctions are due to human rights abuses... In general and perhaps unfortunately, the world isn't concerned with this enough to take strong action against it.

[Vivolkha]

My great aunt used to live and work in The U.S.S.R so I've had a secondhand experience with this.
It still doesn't change my view though that sanctions on NK are hypocritical

The USSR had 25-30 million slaves at any time during its existence. At least the "hypocritical" west doesn't have 10% of it's population on work camps and the rest 1 order away from execution.

No. The figure is correct for the Stalinist era, but afterwards the number was much less. The USSR had better ways to get rid of "undesirable" people, for example punitive psychiatry. Arguably, the conditions that every Soviet worker faced already made them slaves.

So they're hypocritical.

But they're not undeserved.

I agree they are not undeserved.

The problem with overthrowing North Korea are the nuclear arms and a crazy evil leader, even anti government rebels might cause the crazy evil dictator to use them against South Korea, if he really is as crazy in an evil way as his reputation is, the evil dictator part is natural.

Totalitarian governments like this can only be overthrown from above, USSR style. No foreign intervention or popular revolution will do.

[Parhe]

That's all nice and well but you people are not answering the OP's question. He did not say that the DPRK was a good place to live. Just that on paper it seems no more shitty than many of the places the west gleefully calls their ally.

Cause the sanctions have little to do with human rights and more to do with North Korea actively threatening an ally, South Korea (among others), which it also invaded in the 1950s. Regardless, people are largely responding to the claims made in the OP. It is difficult to believe North Korea's claims that it will only use nuclear weapons in self defense when it pretends the Korean War was entirely self defense and make threats to turn Seoul, a civilian target, into a sea of fire. While I don't believe the North Korean regime to be as "stupid" as many other Westerners, I wouldn't be surprised if a desperate enough North Korea used nuclear weapons as a last resort in an offensive war and lie to itself that it was also self defense. The US' invasion of Iraq is irrelevant when North Korea's serious pursuit of nukes predates the USSR's collapse.

[The New California Republic]

Not really. The lies are in the same basic area, i.e. warfare. If I repeatedly told lies about, say, the weather forecast, would it be reasonable to ever believe what I say on that subject?

The Korean War was in the past and its claims of both initial US aggression and NK's own victory are a way to paint the US as an aggressor and to help legitimize the current regime's rule. In other words, it's mostly about history and legitimacy, even though the subject is what happened during a war.

Nuclear weapons, on the other hand, are a sensitive topic with significant international consequences.

One is meant for an internal audience. The other, while still having internal propaganda value, is primarily for external reasons. They're different.

No they aren't. If they repeatedly lie about something related to warfare over a 70 year period, then their credibility is wafer thin in that area.

[Arumdaum]

The Korean War was in the past and its claims of both initial US aggression and NK's own victory are a way to paint the US as an aggressor and to help legitimize the current regime's rule. In other words, it's mostly about history and legitimacy, even though the subject is what happened during a war.

Nuclear weapons, on the other hand, are a sensitive topic with significant international consequences.

One is meant for an internal audience. The other, while still having internal propaganda value, is primarily for external reasons. They're different.

No they aren't. If they repeatedly lie about something related to warfare over a 70 year period, then their credibility is wafer thin in that area.

Why do you think they're so intimately related and why do you think NK would offensively use nuclear weapons?

[Anostas]

What are they missing from Totalitarianism? I am the founder of the Totalitarian Region.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

The USSR had 25-30 million slaves at any time during its existence. At least the "hypocritical" west doesn't have 10% of it's population on work camps and the rest 1 order away from execution.

No. The figure is correct for the Stalinist era, but afterwards the number was much less. The USSR had better ways to get rid of "undesirable" people, for example punitive psychiatry. Arguably, the conditions that every Soviet worker faced already made them slaves.

I agree they are not undeserved.

The problem with overthrowing North Korea are the nuclear arms and a crazy evil leader, even anti government rebels might cause the crazy evil dictator to use them against South Korea, if he really is as crazy in an evil way as his reputation is, the evil dictator part is natural.

Totalitarian governments like this can only be overthrown from above, USSR style. No foreign intervention or popular revolution will do.

Good point internal revolution within the government like in the USSR and a military coup d'état.

[Arumdaum]

What are they missing from Totalitarianism? I am the founder of the Totalitarian Region.

what

[Anostas]

What are they missing from Totalitarianism? I am the founder of the Totalitarian Region.

what

Wrong translation
This is a real translation:

What's wrong with Totalitarianism

[The New California Republic]

No they aren't. If they repeatedly lie about something related to warfare over a 70 year period, then their credibility is wafer thin in that area.

Why do you think they're so intimately related and why do you think NK would offensively use nuclear weapons?

Because they are both closely related to warfare, and they lie repeatedly and over a protracted period. Seriously man, this isn't rocket science (Alright, it actually is, but still...). NK follows the same Soviet-style methodology in warfare, which would not have hesitated to use nuclear weapons to punch holes in the enemy defensive line, and there is a pretty big defensive line facing NK...