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Are teenagers adults, or are they children?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Are teenagers adults, or are they children?

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:20 am

In many ancient societies, teenagers were married off in their teen years. In some of them, this is when hunting or knighthood training started.

Each of these are rites of passage into adulthood. All line up with puberty, or at least the later stages thereof. All point to the same conclusion; like a country drawing its borders at a natural boundary like a river or mountain range, puberty and adulthood were one of a kind for much of history, making modern western society's arbitrary several-year age gap between the end of puberty and the start of adulthood abnormal and unprecedented, and frankly, making one wonder what agenda drove it in the first place.

One prime suspect for this is the imposing of older generations' views on the young. Of all the public services, few seem as innately coercive as K-12 education. Welfare draws from the till of tax dollars taken from everyone else, but leaves up to the individual recipient whether or not to accept it, or how to spend it. (To a point, depending on the jurisdiction.) Firefighting draws from the till; but draws fewer dollars per capita, and doesn't require thousands of hours of teenagers' lives. Cops and soldiers have a lawful level of authority over everyone else, but that's necessary to maintain order. Education imposes upon an entire generation any set of assumptions about our world baked into the curriculum to cater to the whims of any majority of voters; most of whom are, incidentally, not teenagers. (And most teenagers, for that matter, aren't old enough to vote.) So while these teenagers will be old enough to vote, they will be doing so after several' years worth of indoctrination; well into adulthood; in the previous generations' assumptions about the world.

While the idea that an (actual) child might not have had as much need for independence; or more need for a lack thereof; may have appealed to our ancestors, the notion of extending this into teen years seems to be a parasitic theft of an otherwise more reasonable instinct. I don't think it's a coincidence that in the process, they've so blurred the distinction between adult and child that many other adults are now living at home, years into what even today's laws would count as adulthood. But do the rest of us really have any room to speak, after arbitrary extending childhood's natural borders beyond that river?
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2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Varangian Rus
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Postby Varangian Rus » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:22 am

They're neither. That's why they're in a separate category. More independent and self-aware than a child, too dumb and undeveloped to be an adult.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:24 am

Varangian Rus wrote:They're neither. That's why they're in a separate category. More independent and self-aware than a child, too dumb and undeveloped to be an adult.

Only because we've cushioned the natural consequences of bad decisions.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Munkcestrian Republic
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Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:24 am

We teenagers aren’t adults, sorry, no matter what some really old people thought, and I’m thankful I won’t be one for a few years yet

And I’m not sure the whole indoctrination thing you think is the reason for this “arbitrary boundary”’is working given the massive gap between the views of The Oldies and our 8) er views
Last edited by Munkcestrian Republic on Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:25 am

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:We teenagers aren’t adults, sorry, and I’m thankful I won’t be one for a few years yet

And I’m not sure the whole indoctrination thing you think is the reason for this “arbitrary boundary”’is working given the massive gap between the views of The Oldies and our 8) er views

That's like saying gravity doesn't work because an airplane can stay airborne. The gulf might be even wider without it.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Varangian Rus
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Postby Varangian Rus » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:26 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Varangian Rus wrote:They're neither. That's why they're in a separate category. More independent and self-aware than a child, too dumb and undeveloped to be an adult.

Only because we've cushioned the natural consequences of bad decisions.


No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

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Munkcestrian Republic
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Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:27 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Munkcestrian Republic wrote:We teenagers aren’t adults, sorry, and I’m thankful I won’t be one for a few years yet

And I’m not sure the whole indoctrination thing you think is the reason for this “arbitrary boundary”’is working given the massive gap between the views of The Oldies and our 8) er views

That's like saying gravity doesn't work because an airplane can stay airborne. The gulf might be even wider without it.

It might, but unfortunately there is no evidence it would
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Munkcestrian Republic
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Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:28 am

Also we are adolescents not teenagers, “teenager” is a label the baby boomers have forced upon us
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Munkcestrian Republic
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Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:29 am

Varangian Rus wrote:too dumb [...] to be an adult.

I mean yeah uh no
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:32 am

Varangian Rus wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Only because we've cushioned the natural consequences of bad decisions.


No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

Then explain the rest of history.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Vegaslovakia
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Postby Vegaslovakia » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:37 am

Varangian Rus wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Only because we've cushioned the natural consequences of bad decisions.


No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.


This guy is right. There are RARE exceptions, but most people are 25 years old, maybe a little older, when their brains become fully developed.
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Varangian Rus
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Postby Varangian Rus » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:38 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Varangian Rus wrote:
No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

Then explain the rest of history.


Explain what? All you say is:

In many ancient societies, teenagers were married off in their teen years. In some of them, this is when hunting or knighthood training started.

Yes, in many ancient societies, adolescents were often being thrust into positions they were unprepared for. They were often being married off by families who either couldn't support them or found more use for them in a productive marriage.

And adolescents today are often taught to hunt or given the preliminary training for some trade or craft.

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Stagnant Axon Terminal
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Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Varangian Rus wrote:
No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

Then explain the rest of history.

Shorter lifespans and the necessity to have children younger/begin manual labor younger. This isn't a secret.
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Postby Totenborg » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Varangian Rus wrote:
No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

Then explain the rest of history.

Shorter lifespans, societal necessity for labor and solders, and perverts trying to marry younguns. There you go. Explained.
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Postby Totenborg » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am

Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Then explain the rest of history.

Shorter lifespans and the necessity to have children younger/begin manual labor younger. This isn't a secret.

Exactly.
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VoVoDoCo
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Postby VoVoDoCo » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:43 am

I would argue I wasn't an adult till I was 20.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:43 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Varangian Rus wrote:
No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

Then explain the rest of history.


Different societies had different traditions that were abandoned in favor of certain standardized procedures, focussed on aquiring formal theoretical education and that leave a lot of gaps unfilled but with assumptions.

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Postby Juristonia » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:43 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Varangian Rus wrote:
No. It's because they're brains are still not fully developed. They're not done growing yet, despite how they feel about it.

Then explain the rest of history.

Here, I'll explain history.

The past was largely pretty shitty.

There ya go.

VoVoDoCo wrote:I would argue I wasn't an adult till I was 20.

I'm 37 and I barely think I qualify now.
Last edited by Juristonia on Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:46 am

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:In many ancient societies...

Who cares?
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Postby Agarntrop » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 am

As a teenager I can state they are the worst of both.
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Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:49 am

Imagine being upset and/or confused that CHILDREN these days are not married off or going to war because we value education during critical years of brain development and not demanding 12 year olds give birth.
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Postby Galloism » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:50 am

Juristonia wrote:
VoVoDoCo wrote:I would argue I wasn't an adult till I was 20.

I'm 37 and I barely think I qualify now.

We don't consider the prefrontal cortex fully developed until around 25.
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VoVoDoCo
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Postby VoVoDoCo » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:53 am

Galloism wrote:
Juristonia wrote:I'm 37 and I barely think I qualify now.

We don't consider the prefrontal cortex fully developed until around 25.

Well to me, I don't really Define adulthood in the biological context. To me it's more like a role. My stepmother moved out when she was 16 to get away from a Troublesome household. Her brain was less developed, but she was paying bills and working multiple jobs. In the context of being a role, I would argue she was an adult at 16.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:54 am

Galloism wrote:
Juristonia wrote:I'm 37 and I barely think I qualify now.

We don't consider the prefrontal cortex fully developed until around 25.

So that's why you can't rent a car until you're 25...


I don't know how we're doing shit artificially. There's a world of difference between a twelve year old and a twenty year old. We didn't make that shit up, that just happens.
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Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:56 am

VoVoDoCo wrote:
Galloism wrote:We don't consider the prefrontal cortex fully developed until around 25.

Well to me, I don't really Define adulthood in the biological context. To me it's more like a role. My stepmother moved out when she was 16 to get away from a Troublesome household. Her brain was less developed, but she was paying bills and working multiple jobs. In the context of being a role, I would argue she was an adult at 16.

No, she was a minor with an undue burden. A child forced to leave home due to an abusive house doesn't turn into an adult because they have a job, they're an abused, displaced child.
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The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.

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