Korea-Japan Trade War and Security Repercussions

[Side 3]

It'd be much easier to be on Japan's side if they didn't constantly deny their war time atrocities.

100% on Japan's side on this. Japan is greater than Korea based off the quality of their respective histories, so far as which developed the most first. South Korea should be content with ranking above China in terms of ancestral prestige. That is the Korean people's role in my view. To be a genetic bridge people between Japan and China that keeps both peoples separated out enough. If I consider Japan to be greater than China, I'd say Korea is below Japan but above China.

It'll be a sad day indeed, if I have no choice one of these days, but to acknowledge China as being greater than either. I'd much rather Japan had much of their empire back, than for that to happen, which appears almost inevitable given the world's choice to keep showering China with money to produce everything so cheaply.

China only ever grows more powerful every year, and they really do need a great fall for the world to be in a truly right place from my perspective.

What the hell are you on about?

[Luziyca]

Personally, the southern provinces of Korea should enforce the court ruling to allow the forced laborers to sue Japanese corporations. However, I do feel that maybe the southern provinces of Korea had the right idea in not renewing the GSOMIA agreement, especially with Abe's increasing determination to remilitarize Japan, and what with the USA's words not even worth the paper it is on anymore (*cough* Iran *cough* NAFTA *cough*).

As for the Japanese corporations, while it is really up to them whether to comply (until the authorities in the southern provinces of Korea enforce the ruling), they'd certainly gain a lot of goodwill among Koreans if they apologized and provided compensation to those who were forced to work for them, and their descendants. Also, Japan should undo its trade restrictions with the southern provinces of Korea.

[Rio Cana]

Korea's existed for longer than Japan and is home to the most widely spoken language isolate in the world.

Korea even ruled over large swaths of China at one point.

What is the evidence there was a Korea prior to 20th century?

Also, even North Korean ideology is basically plagiarised from Japanese ideology of World War II.

Answer language. Read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreanic_languages

[Rio Cana]

Korea's existed for longer than Japan and is home to the most widely spoken language isolate in the world.

Korea even ruled over large swaths of China at one point.

What is the evidence there was a Korea prior to 20th century?

Also, even North Korean ideology is basically plagiarised from Japanese ideology of World War II.

You do know the Korean kingdom of Paekche took writing and Buddism to Japan. After the Kingdom fell to the Korean Kingdom of Silla, many citizens of Paekche who had skills fled to Japan. They brought many new tools and ways of doing things to Japan. Proof - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uFdigzjTsc&t=5m37s

[Arumdaum]

Korea's existed for longer than Japan and is home to the most widely spoken language isolate in the world.

Korea even ruled over large swaths of China at one point.

What is the evidence there was a Korea prior to 20th century?

Also, even North Korean ideology is basically plagiarised from Japanese ideology of World War II.

What are you on about?..

If you're talking about a culture and civilization that can be tracked to the past, then you have records on Koreans dating back thousands of years.

If you're talking about modern ideas among the masses regarding national identity, then you could make the same argument about Japan, in which Japanese identity only became a thing among most people following the Meiji Restoration and compulsory education. Also, this argument could be made to stem to virtually every modern country in the world prior to the creation of modern nationalism.

If you mean to discuss recognition that they were fairly different from their neighbors, then Koreans had that when encountering people who spoke different languages, wore different clothes, had different customs, and so on.

If you mean intellectual ideas regarding Korea, then that goes back ages. The Samguk Yusa, a collection of accounts from Korean history published in the 1280s, traces Korean history back to 2333 BCE (likely inaccurate date) with Gojoseon. Joseon kings traced Korea's birth from Wiman Joseon in 194 BCE, when a Chinese general came to Korea, overthrew the native Korean king and "civilized" the country. King Sejong made Hangul in the 1400s as he specifically stated that the people of Korea are distinct from China, and speak a different language. Modern nationalist intellectuals also became a thing in the late 19th century as they encountered ideas from other parts of Asia and the West.

[NERVUN]

It'd be much easier to be on Japan's side if they didn't constantly deny their war time atrocities.

They do and they don't. It's a complicated situation that would be much easier if politicians would keep their mouths shut, but good luck with that. Officially, Japan does not deny it.

[Acitsusima]

100% on Japan's side on this. Japan is greater than Korea based off the quality of their respective histories, so far as which developed the most first. South Korea should be content with ranking above China in terms of ancestral prestige. That is the Korean people's role in my view. To be a genetic bridge people between Japan and China that keeps both peoples separated out enough. If I consider Japan to be greater than China, I'd say Korea is below Japan but above China.

It'll be a sad day indeed, if I have no choice one of these days, but to acknowledge China as being greater than either. I'd much rather Japan had much of their empire back, than for that to happen, which appears almost inevitable given the world's choice to keep showering China with money to produce everything so cheaply.

China only ever grows more powerful every year, and they really do need a great fall for the world to be in a truly right place from my perspective.

that's a bruh momento right there

[Side 3]

It'd be much easier to be on Japan's side if they didn't constantly deny their war time atrocities.

They do and they don't. It's a complicated situation that would be much easier if politicians would keep their mouths shut, but good luck with that. Officially, Japan does not deny it.

True, but they also officially scrub their history books of it, and their prime minister officially believes that comfort women weren't forced into sex slavery. Furthermore, his party is pretty much the most powerful one in Japan. Denying their atrocities may not be their official stance, but it's pretty damn close to it.

[NERVUN]

They do and they don't. It's a complicated situation that would be much easier if politicians would keep their mouths shut, but good luck with that. Officially, Japan does not deny it.

True, but they also officially scrub their history books of it, and their prime minister officially believes that comfort women weren't forced into sex slavery. Furthermore, his party is pretty much the most powerful one in Japan. Denying their atrocities may not be their official stance, but it's pretty damn close to it.

No they don't. It's still in the books. And no he doesn't. Officially, Abe has not renounced or stated that he rejects any of the past statements or conclusions that Japan did.

What his private thoughts are is anyone's guess. He's stated things in the past, but has stated something else since becoming PM again. I don't like Abe, but he ain't stupid.

[Nogodia]

100% on Japan's side on this. Japan is greater than Korea based off the quality of their respective histories, so far as which developed the most first. South Korea should be content with ranking above China in terms of ancestral prestige. That is the Korean people's role in my view. To be a genetic bridge people between Japan and China that keeps both peoples separated out enough. If I consider Japan to be greater than China, I'd say Korea is below Japan but above China.

It'll be a sad day indeed, if I have no choice one of these days, but to acknowledge China as being greater than either. I'd much rather Japan had much of their empire back, than for that to happen, which appears almost inevitable given the world's choice to keep showering China with money to produce everything so cheaply.

China only ever grows more powerful every year, and they really do need a great fall for the world to be in a truly right place from my perspective.

Ah yes, the idiot can always be relied on for bad history and a dose of blood pressure.
And I even oppose Chinese policies...

Korea's existed for longer than Japan and is home to the most widely spoken language isolate in the world.

Korea even ruled over large swaths of China at one point.

What is the evidence there was a Korea prior to 20th century?

Also, even North Korean ideology is basically plagiarised from Japanese ideology of World War II.

I literally just had an aneurysm because of this.
How fucking stupid can you be as to not know or look up the fact that Japan colonized the Korean Empire, proclaimed in 1897, which was the direct successor state of the Joseon Dynasty, which was founded in 1392.
You wanna go back even further? Joseon was founded out of Goryeo, which was founded in 918 CE. Goryeo was overthrown in an internal coup, so there's no "foreigners conquered it" excuse.

Korean nations existed long before the 20th century.
End of story, no denial.

INB4 someone says: "But Nog, you're Korean, you must be biased!"
No. I'm only interjecting here because the two above individuals clearly have no idea about Korea and needed a verbal ass-whooping. I would have no qualms about getting the same treatment if I fucked up on writing about any other country.

[Totally Not OEP]

From a geopolitical standpoint, Japan ought to get the two Koreas to go at it and then do again what they did before 1910. A reunited Koreas under Japan would give them an economy twice as large, and thus in a position to challenge not only China but also the United States in the long run.

[Nogodia]

From a geopolitical standpoint, Japan ought to get the two Koreas to go at it and then do again what they did before 1910. A reunited Koreas under Japan would give them an economy twice as large, and thus in a position to challenge not only China but also the United States in the long run.

That's 75 million people who immensely dislike Japanese colonialism, who are about to be stuck back under Japan's foot.
Unless you want to see some kind of mass riot in the Koreas/Korea, this is a terrible idea.

One thing I've noticed from this thread is a clean-cut lack of understanding about Korea by people.
We're not Japanese.
We're not Chinese.
We have (almost always been) and will now almost always be an independent nation with its own language (yes, it's related to Chinese), culture, ethnicity (yes, we are related to the Chinese, Turks, and Japanese), and economy.

Fusing us with Japan is one of the dumbest ideas possible. Economic and military community? Sure. Same nation? Not until the Japanese issue a good apology, and maybe about 3 decades of continuous good ties afterward.

[Arumdaum]

From a geopolitical standpoint, Japan ought to get the two Koreas to go at it and then do again what they did before 1910. A reunited Koreas under Japan would give them an economy twice as large, and thus in a position to challenge not only China but also the United States in the long run.

That's 75 million people who immensely dislike Japanese colonialism, who are about to be stuck back under Japan's foot.
Unless you want to see some kind of mass riot in the Koreas/Korea, this is a terrible idea.

One thing I've noticed from this thread is a clean-cut lack of understanding about Korea by people.
We're not Japanese.
We're not Chinese.
We have (almost always been) and will now almost always be an independent nation with its own language (yes, it's related to Chinese), culture, ethnicity (yes, we are related to the Chinese, Turks, and Japanese), and economy.

Fusing us with Japan is one of the dumbest ideas possible. Economic and military community? Sure. Same nation? Not until the Japanese issue a good apology, and maybe about 3 decades of continuous good ties afterward.

The Korean language, despite having a large amount of loanwords from Chinese, has no genetic relation to Chinese...

[Arumdaum]

From a geopolitical standpoint, Japan ought to get the two Koreas to go at it and then do again what they did before 1910. A reunited Koreas under Japan would give them an economy twice as large, and thus in a position to challenge not only China but also the United States in the long run.

why did i make this thread lol

[Kowani]

From a geopolitical standpoint, Japan ought to get the two Koreas to go at it and then do again what they did before 1910. A reunited Koreas under Japan would give them an economy twice as large, and thus in a position to challenge not only China but also the United States in the long run.

I’m sure that wouldn’t spill over, cost them political capital, or backfire at all.

[Totally Not OEP]

From a geopolitical standpoint, Japan ought to get the two Koreas to go at it and then do again what they did before 1910. A reunited Koreas under Japan would give them an economy twice as large, and thus in a position to challenge not only China but also the United States in the long run.

I’m sure that wouldn’t spill over, cost them political capital, or backfire at all.

It just depends. It's not 1941 at least, so they don't have to worry about the Euros or Russians.

[Arumdaum]

Ah, that wasn't Chinese at the time, so sounded misleading.

Referring to Goguryeo as Korea is also extremely anachronistic, especially when there were a bunch of other Korean kingdoms on the peninsula at the time. It's not really relevant to the issues that Joseon Korea faced, with the thousand years time distance between them, but misinformation is annoying.

Anachronistic yes, but in the same way that historical Chinese kingdoms and dynasties were also "Chinese." His point, that Korea existed prior to the 20th century, is still pretty valid.

[Arumdaum]

I’m sure that wouldn’t spill over, cost them political capital, or backfire at all.

It just depends. It's not 1941 at least, so they don't have to worry about the Euros or Russians.

why doesnt iran fuse with turkey

why doesnt poland fuse with germany

why doesnt thailand fuse with india

lmao what are you on about

[Totally Not OEP]

It just depends. It's not 1941 at least, so they don't have to worry about the Euros or Russians.

why doesnt iran fuse with turkey

why doesnt poland fuse with germany

why doesnt thailand fuse with india

lmao what are you on about

Poland and Germany should unite, says Lech Walesa

[Hanafuridake]

Referring to Goguryeo as Korea is also extremely anachronistic, especially when there were a bunch of other Korean kingdoms on the peninsula at the time. It's not really relevant to the issues that Joseon Korea faced, with the thousand years time distance between them, but misinformation is annoying.

Anachronistic yes, but in the same way that historical Chinese kingdoms and dynasties were also "Chinese." His point, that Korea existed prior to the 20th century, is still pretty valid.

No one disputed that there were historical Korean kingdoms, but Korean national identity is relatively new. Before Japan annexed the peninsula, the Joseon kingdom viewed itself as a miniature China.

[Arumdaum]

Anachronistic yes, but in the same way that historical Chinese kingdoms and dynasties were also "Chinese." His point, that Korea existed prior to the 20th century, is still pretty valid.

No one disputed that there were historical Korean kingdoms, but Korean national identity is relatively new. Before Japan annexed the peninsula, the Joseon kingdom viewed itself as a miniature China.

It's new in the sense that all national identities are new and only really emerged beginning in the 19th century, Korea and Japan (both late 19th century) included.

Korea saw itself as a miniature China in a similar manner as to how the Ottoman Empire and Russia saw themselves as a continuation of Rome.

[Risottia]

I think the EU, Russia, America and China should exploit the tensions and sell a YUUUGE lot of weapons to both Japan and SK. It's good for the former countries' economy, and that justifies it. Make Economy Great Again!

[Audioslavia]

*snip*

Ah yes, the idiot can always be relied on for bad history and a dose of blood pressure.
And I even oppose Chinese policies...

*snip*

I literally just had an aneurysm because of this.
How fucking stupid can you be as to not know or look up the fact that Japan colonized the Korean Empire, proclaimed in 1897, which was the direct successor state of ...

This is that *** warning for flaming *** you wanted. No more outbursts, please.

[Andsed]

I’m sure that wouldn’t spill over, cost them political capital, or backfire at all.

It just depends. It's not 1941 at least, so they don't have to worry about the Euros or Russians.

No they just need to worry about China and the US two of the most powerful nations in the world along with most of Korea being united against a common enemy who they have bad blood with.

[Pasong Tirad]

100% on Japan's side on this. Japan is greater than Korea based off the quality of their respective histories, so far as which developed the most first. South Korea should be content with ranking above China in terms of ancestral prestige. That is the Korean people's role in my view. To be a genetic bridge people between Japan and China that keeps both peoples separated out enough. If I consider Japan to be greater than China, I'd say Korea is below Japan but above China.

It'll be a sad day indeed, if I have no choice one of these days, but to acknowledge China as being greater than either. I'd much rather Japan had much of their empire back, than for that to happen, which appears almost inevitable given the world's choice to keep showering China with money to produce everything so cheaply.

China only ever grows more powerful every year, and they really do need a great fall for the world to be in a truly right place from my perspective.

Millions of people were systematically raped, tortured, and massacred because of the Japanese Empire but go off on your whole "quality of their history" tangent I suppose.