by Arumdaum » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:28 am
by Loben The 2nd » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:46 am
by Thepeopl » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:19 am
by Napkizemlja » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:25 am
by Thepeopl » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:10 am
Num Vent wrote:From my understandind despite the attrocities the Japnese comiteed in Korea they also build a lot of infrastructure there like schools, roads and an economy. Korean national indenitity is also new and developed only in the last 100 years. Korea is something like Belgium or Ukraine. The Korean president was also serving in the Japanese army, which is another proof.
by GlobalControl » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:30 am
Arumdaum wrote:https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/3016980/japan-south-korea-trade-war-has-tokyo-shot-itself-foot
https://www.undispatch.com/japan-and-so ... lications/
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 99616.html
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190725000414
This has been going on for a while and you can probably find several articles on it.
For about a month, Korea and Japan have been engaged in a trade war, again from issues stemming back to WWII. Back in June, the Korean Supreme Court ruled that forced laborers during WWII could sue Japanese corporations they were conscripted to work for, such as Mitsubishi and Japan Iron and Steel Co., and ruled in favor of the plaintiffs in a case lasting a decade.
Prime Minister Abe's government told the corporations to ignore the court ruling, arguing that everything relating to the colonial era was settled in the 1965 Normalization Agreement under the dictatorship of Park Chung-hee, a former officer of the Imperial Japanese Army. Korea's position is that while it ruled that the Korean government can no longer seek claims from Japan, that the agreement never applied to individuals making claims. In response, the Korean government announced that it would seize assets of these companies in order to enforce the court ruling. In turn, Japan removed Korea from its trade whitelist and restricted the export of key chemicals required to produce semiconductors, which is Korea's largest export. The value of the won has since dropped a decent amount. As trade restrictions are not allowed by the WTO apart from security reasons, Japan's official argument has been that the restrictions are due to the possibility that Japanese exports to South Korea could end up in North Korea, where it may be used to build weapons, thus posing a security risk. However, this is a pretty shaky argument most recognize that the real reason for Japan's trade restrictions are due to the court ruling.
This has resulted in a boycott of Japanese products in Korea that most people in the country are participating in and Korea in turn removing Japan from its own trade whitelist. Furthermore, Korea has chosen not to renew its participation in GSOMIA, an intelligence sharing agreement between Korea and Japan which was heavily encouraged by the US. The US strongly seeks to deepen ties between SK and Japan to use them as a balance against China, but to the chagrin of many Koreans, generally always takes the side of Japan in disputes.
--
Personally, I take the side of Korea. In 1965, Japan refused to acknowledge that the money and loans (provided at preferential rates) were reparations, arguing that it was simply economic aid. Furthermore, there is nothing the current Moon administration can do to overrule the Supreme Court due to the system of separation of powers in place. If Japan refuses to allow its corporations to provide compensation to living forced laborers for the forced labor provided for those corporations, then it'll become even more difficult to resolve once all those laborers, now very elderly, pass away.
While Korea has taken a lot of shit from the US for withdrawing from GSOMIA, I don't think it changes much. GSOMIA was in place for less than three years, and from what I've read there were several problems in its implementation anyway. Furthermore, I don't see why SK should be sharing sensitive intelligence with Japan if Japan is placing trade restrictions on inputs critical for the Korean economy for reasons of security risk, even though it seems more like Trump placing trade restrictions on Canada after declaring them a national security risk, despite that not really being the case.
Thepeopl wrote:Num Vent wrote:From my understandind despite the attrocities the Japnese comiteed in Korea they also build a lot of infrastructure there like schools, roads and an economy. Korean national indenitity is also new and developed only in the last 100 years. Korea is something like Belgium or Ukraine. The Korean president was also serving in the Japanese army, which is another proof.
Wow!! So wrong...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Korea
by The Chuck » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:36 am
GlobalControl wrote:Arumdaum wrote:https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/3016980/japan-south-korea-trade-war-has-tokyo-shot-itself-foot
https://www.undispatch.com/japan-and-so ... lications/
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 99616.html
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190725000414
This has been going on for a while and you can probably find several articles on it.
For about a month, Korea and Japan have been engaged in a trade war, again from issues stemming back to WWII. Back in June, the Korean Supreme Court ruled that forced laborers during WWII could sue Japanese corporations they were conscripted to work for, such as Mitsubishi and Japan Iron and Steel Co., and ruled in favor of the plaintiffs in a case lasting a decade.
Prime Minister Abe's government told the corporations to ignore the court ruling, arguing that everything relating to the colonial era was settled in the 1965 Normalization Agreement under the dictatorship of Park Chung-hee, a former officer of the Imperial Japanese Army. Korea's position is that while it ruled that the Korean government can no longer seek claims from Japan, that the agreement never applied to individuals making claims. In response, the Korean government announced that it would seize assets of these companies in order to enforce the court ruling. In turn, Japan removed Korea from its trade whitelist and restricted the export of key chemicals required to produce semiconductors, which is Korea's largest export. The value of the won has since dropped a decent amount. As trade restrictions are not allowed by the WTO apart from security reasons, Japan's official argument has been that the restrictions are due to the possibility that Japanese exports to South Korea could end up in North Korea, where it may be used to build weapons, thus posing a security risk. However, this is a pretty shaky argument most recognize that the real reason for Japan's trade restrictions are due to the court ruling.
This has resulted in a boycott of Japanese products in Korea that most people in the country are participating in and Korea in turn removing Japan from its own trade whitelist. Furthermore, Korea has chosen not to renew its participation in GSOMIA, an intelligence sharing agreement between Korea and Japan which was heavily encouraged by the US. The US strongly seeks to deepen ties between SK and Japan to use them as a balance against China, but to the chagrin of many Koreans, generally always takes the side of Japan in disputes.
--
Personally, I take the side of Korea. In 1965, Japan refused to acknowledge that the money and loans (provided at preferential rates) were reparations, arguing that it was simply economic aid. Furthermore, there is nothing the current Moon administration can do to overrule the Supreme Court due to the system of separation of powers in place. If Japan refuses to allow its corporations to provide compensation to living forced laborers for the forced labor provided for those corporations, then it'll become even more difficult to resolve once all those laborers, now very elderly, pass away.
While Korea has taken a lot of shit from the US for withdrawing from GSOMIA, I don't think it changes much. GSOMIA was in place for less than three years, and from what I've read there were several problems in its implementation anyway. Furthermore, I don't see why SK should be sharing sensitive intelligence with Japan if Japan is placing trade restrictions on inputs critical for the Korean economy for reasons of security risk, even though it seems more like Trump placing trade restrictions on Canada after declaring them a national security risk, despite that not really being the case.
I side more with Japan, but I can understand the Korean side as well.
Frankly though I don't see why people are suing Japanese corporations in Korea 80 years later. It seems kinda like there isn't really much of a point to it other than just the money, but I can and probably am wrong in that regard, and it could be something like PTSD and some form of justice to the person who sued.
It is a bit unfair to the Japanese, given that being forced to pay reparations to people who won't be alive much longer frankly, but at the same time these corporations did take people as forced laborers and use them throughout the 1930s and on, likely earlier. So there probably should be some reparations paid.
I also don't care if the money was or wasn't labeled reparations, its been like 50 years since the agreement and that sum of money was rendered and it should in some manner count for reparations, at least as far as I think.
You seem like a great person to debate with.
That is sarcasm, take it badly if you want.
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by GlobalControl » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:41 am
The Chuck wrote:GlobalControl wrote:
I side more with Japan, but I can understand the Korean side as well.
Frankly though I don't see why people are suing Japanese corporations in Korea 80 years later. It seems kinda like there isn't really much of a point to it other than just the money, but I can and probably am wrong in that regard, and it could be something like PTSD and some form of justice to the person who sued.
It is a bit unfair to the Japanese, given that being forced to pay reparations to people who won't be alive much longer frankly, but at the same time these corporations did take people as forced laborers and use them throughout the 1930s and on, likely earlier. So there probably should be some reparations paid.
I also don't care if the money was or wasn't labeled reparations, its been like 50 years since the agreement and that sum of money was rendered and it should in some manner count for reparations, at least as far as I think.
You seem like a great person to debate with.
That is sarcasm, take it badly if you want.
Pride and honor is something that is still held in high regard across most of Asia. The Korea - Japan conflict isn't just about forced labor but also the atrocities committed against Koreans by the Japanese during/around WW2 including the issue of forced conscription of Koreans into the military and the "comfort women battalions" of Asian sex slaves for the Japanese. These scars run deep but I'm certain Korea will hash something out with the Japanese eventually. China and NoKo are to big of a threat to ignore for either of them.
by Aclion » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:46 am
by Thepeopl » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:10 pm
GlobalControl wrote:
You seem like a great person to debate with.
That is sarcasm, take it badly if you want.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:58 pm
Arumdaum wrote:https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/3016980/japan-south-korea-trade-war-has-tokyo-shot-itself-foot
https://www.undispatch.com/japan-and-so ... lications/
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 99616.html
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190725000414
This has been going on for a while and you can probably find several articles on it.
For about a month, Korea and Japan have been engaged in a trade war, again from issues stemming back to WWII. Back in June, the Korean Supreme Court ruled that forced laborers during WWII could sue Japanese corporations they were conscripted to work for, such as Mitsubishi and Japan Iron and Steel Co., and ruled in favor of the plaintiffs in a case lasting a decade.
Prime Minister Abe's government told the corporations to ignore the court ruling, arguing that everything relating to the colonial era was settled in the 1965 Normalization Agreement under the dictatorship of Park Chung-hee, a former officer of the Imperial Japanese Army. Korea's position is that while it ruled that the Korean government can no longer seek claims from Japan, that the agreement never applied to individuals making claims. In response, the Korean government announced that it would seize assets of these companies in order to enforce the court ruling. In turn, Japan removed Korea from its trade whitelist and restricted the export of key chemicals required to produce semiconductors, which is Korea's largest export. The value of the won has since dropped a decent amount. As trade restrictions are not allowed by the WTO apart from security reasons, Japan's official argument has been that the restrictions are due to the possibility that Japanese exports to South Korea could end up in North Korea, where it may be used to build weapons, thus posing a security risk. However, this is a pretty shaky argument most recognize that the real reason for Japan's trade restrictions are due to the court ruling.
This has resulted in a boycott of Japanese products in Korea that most people in the country are participating in and Korea in turn removing Japan from its own trade whitelist. Furthermore, Korea has chosen not to renew its participation in GSOMIA, an intelligence sharing agreement between Korea and Japan which was heavily encouraged by the US. The US strongly seeks to deepen ties between SK and Japan to use them as a balance against China, but to the chagrin of many Koreans, generally always takes the side of Japan in disputes.
--
Personally, I take the side of Korea. In 1965, Japan refused to acknowledge that the money and loans (provided at preferential rates) were reparations, arguing that it was simply economic aid. Furthermore, there is nothing the current Moon administration can do to overrule the Supreme Court due to the system of separation of powers in place. If Japan refuses to allow its corporations to provide compensation to living forced laborers for the forced labor provided for those corporations, then it'll become even more difficult to resolve once all those laborers, now very elderly, pass away.
While Korea has taken a lot of shit from the US for withdrawing from GSOMIA, I don't think it changes much. GSOMIA was in place for less than three years, and from what I've read there were several problems in its implementation anyway. Furthermore, I don't see why SK should be sharing sensitive intelligence with Japan if Japan is placing trade restrictions on inputs critical for the Korean economy for reasons of security risk, even though it seems more like Trump placing trade restrictions on Canada after declaring them a national security risk, despite that not really being the case.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Kowani » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:09 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Arumdaum wrote:https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/3016980/japan-south-korea-trade-war-has-tokyo-shot-itself-foot
https://www.undispatch.com/japan-and-so ... lications/
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 99616.html
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190725000414
This has been going on for a while and you can probably find several articles on it.
For about a month, Korea and Japan have been engaged in a trade war, again from issues stemming back to WWII. Back in June, the Korean Supreme Court ruled that forced laborers during WWII could sue Japanese corporations they were conscripted to work for, such as Mitsubishi and Japan Iron and Steel Co., and ruled in favor of the plaintiffs in a case lasting a decade.
Prime Minister Abe's government told the corporations to ignore the court ruling, arguing that everything relating to the colonial era was settled in the 1965 Normalization Agreement under the dictatorship of Park Chung-hee, a former officer of the Imperial Japanese Army. Korea's position is that while it ruled that the Korean government can no longer seek claims from Japan, that the agreement never applied to individuals making claims. In response, the Korean government announced that it would seize assets of these companies in order to enforce the court ruling. In turn, Japan removed Korea from its trade whitelist and restricted the export of key chemicals required to produce semiconductors, which is Korea's largest export. The value of the won has since dropped a decent amount. As trade restrictions are not allowed by the WTO apart from security reasons, Japan's official argument has been that the restrictions are due to the possibility that Japanese exports to South Korea could end up in North Korea, where it may be used to build weapons, thus posing a security risk. However, this is a pretty shaky argument most recognize that the real reason for Japan's trade restrictions are due to the court ruling.
This has resulted in a boycott of Japanese products in Korea that most people in the country are participating in and Korea in turn removing Japan from its own trade whitelist. Furthermore, Korea has chosen not to renew its participation in GSOMIA, an intelligence sharing agreement between Korea and Japan which was heavily encouraged by the US. The US strongly seeks to deepen ties between SK and Japan to use them as a balance against China, but to the chagrin of many Koreans, generally always takes the side of Japan in disputes.
--
Personally, I take the side of Korea. In 1965, Japan refused to acknowledge that the money and loans (provided at preferential rates) were reparations, arguing that it was simply economic aid. Furthermore, there is nothing the current Moon administration can do to overrule the Supreme Court due to the system of separation of powers in place. If Japan refuses to allow its corporations to provide compensation to living forced laborers for the forced labor provided for those corporations, then it'll become even more difficult to resolve once all those laborers, now very elderly, pass away.
While Korea has taken a lot of shit from the US for withdrawing from GSOMIA, I don't think it changes much. GSOMIA was in place for less than three years, and from what I've read there were several problems in its implementation anyway. Furthermore, I don't see why SK should be sharing sensitive intelligence with Japan if Japan is placing trade restrictions on inputs critical for the Korean economy for reasons of security risk, even though it seems more like Trump placing trade restrictions on Canada after declaring them a national security risk, despite that not really being the case.
The wounds run deep and I feel that although I understand Korea’s sentiments because a lot happened to them during WWII at the hands of the Japanese, I also understand Japan seeking to protect their companies too. I also understand that this is deeper and more complex than just the trade issues. I have no idea as to what can be done.
One thing that must be remembered however is that the Japanese and Koreans of today are not the same as those in WWII.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:12 pm
Kowani wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
The wounds run deep and I feel that although I understand Korea’s sentiments because a lot happened to them during WWII at the hands of the Japanese, I also understand Japan seeking to protect their companies too. I also understand that this is deeper and more complex than just the trade issues. I have no idea as to what can be done.
One thing that must be remembered however is that the Japanese and Koreans of today are not the same as those in WWII.
The Koreans suing are literally the people who were in WWII.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Kowani » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:14 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:15 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Kowani » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:19 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:28 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by US-SSR » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:36 pm
by Hanafuridake » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:45 pm
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:47 pm
Hanafuridake wrote:South Korea changes its mind too often about preexisting agreements and tears them up when it thinks it can get a better deal. If Abe wasn't known to harbor atrocity denialist conspiracy theories, most people would probably realize how tiresome this is.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Andsed » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:13 pm
by NERVUN » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:48 pm
Arumdaum wrote:Personally, I take the side of Korea. In 1965, Japan refused to acknowledge that the money and loans (provided at preferential rates) were reparations, arguing that it was simply economic aid. Furthermore, there is nothing the current Moon administration can do to overrule the Supreme Court due to the system of separation of powers in place.
by GlobalControl » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:26 pm
US-SSR wrote:As a practical matter what happens in these kinds of situations is that the ROK will pile up some number of its citizens' claims, press them with the Japanese and arrive at some kind of global settlement. It may be nice to think that the courts of one nation can enforce judgements against the nationals of a different nation but there's nothing in international law that compels that at all.
Had the US not been debilitated by allowing the Electoral College to install a narcissistic, infantile sociopath in the Oval Office it could conceivably help its two most important allies in Asia resolve their dispute. But in the event, unless there's some personal benefit to Trump in any of this, it won't get involved, instead growing weaker while its adversaries grow stronger and its allies make plans for a world where the US doesn't count.
by New haven america » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:28 pm
Num Vent wrote:From my understandind despite the attrocities the Japnese comiteed in Korea they also build a lot of infrastructure there like schools, roads and an economy. Korean national indenitity is also new and developed only in the last 100 years. Korea is something like Belgium or Ukraine. The Korean president was also serving in the Japanese army, which is another proof.
by New haven america » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:32 pm
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