NationStates

Proctopeo wrote:

Liriena wrote:Which is literally the whole point that Thunberg and most climate activists are trying to make??? That there are policies that could solve or at least mitigate these problems but not enough is being done to implement them??

A big thing everyone seems to miss is, you need to pressure more than just Europe and America.
The United States, the European Union, Canada, and Japan together barely stack up to China's emissions alone. Not only that, but America and the EU have seen a decrease in emissions since 1990; Canada and Japan saw a small increase, and China has gone up by almost a factor of five. In under thirty years, China went from half to double the US's emissions.

If you want to reduce global carbon emissions, a major source of global warming, something will have to be done about Chinese industry. Constantly ragging on America and Europe to do more will only get you so far.
Maybe talk to India, too, though more for the trash in their rivers, which as with greenhouse gas emissions, China is the worst offender for.

Kowani wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:A big thing everyone seems to miss is, you need to pressure more than just Europe and America.
The United States, the European Union, Canada, and Japan together barely stack up to China's emissions alone. Not only that, but America and the EU have seen a decrease in emissions since 1990; Canada and Japan saw a small increase, and China has gone up by almost a factor of five. In under thirty years, China went from half to double the US's emissions.

If you want to reduce global carbon emissions, a major source of global warming, something will have to be done about Chinese industry. Constantly ragging on America and Europe to do more will only get you so far.
Maybe talk to India, too, though more for the trash in their rivers, which as with greenhouse gas emissions, China is the worst offender for.

You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

Kowani wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:A big thing everyone seems to miss is, you need to pressure more than just Europe and America.
The United States, the European Union, Canada, and Japan together barely stack up to China's emissions alone. Not only that, but America and the EU have seen a decrease in emissions since 1990; Canada and Japan saw a small increase, and China has gone up by almost a factor of five. In under thirty years, China went from half to double the US's emissions.

If you want to reduce global carbon emissions, a major source of global warming, something will have to be done about Chinese industry. Constantly ragging on America and Europe to do more will only get you so far.
Maybe talk to India, too, though more for the trash in their rivers, which as with greenhouse gas emissions, China is the worst offender for.

You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

Kowani wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:A big thing everyone seems to miss is, you need to pressure more than just Europe and America.
The United States, the European Union, Canada, and Japan together barely stack up to China's emissions alone. Not only that, but America and the EU have seen a decrease in emissions since 1990; Canada and Japan saw a small increase, and China has gone up by almost a factor of five. In under thirty years, China went from half to double the US's emissions.

If you want to reduce global carbon emissions, a major source of global warming, something will have to be done about Chinese industry. Constantly ragging on America and Europe to do more will only get you so far.
Maybe talk to India, too, though more for the trash in their rivers, which as with greenhouse gas emissions, China is the worst offender for.

You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:

Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

I have a new entry for my signature.

Loben The 2nd wrote:

Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

no matter how you kick and scream at the end of the day its still their fault.

Bear Stearns wrote:Another charlatan of the Romanist con-artists sent to bring down America and submit us to a tyrannical Marian rule, enslaved by cardinals and archbishops.

Farnhamia wrote:

Bear Stearns wrote:Another charlatan of the Romanist con-artists sent to bring down America and submit us to a tyrannical Marian rule, enslaved by cardinals and archbishops.

Knock it off with the anti-Catholic trolling/spam or you'll be more than *** warned for trolling. ***

Torrocca wrote:Ah, gotta love that spineless """morality""". You know your ideology's depraved as hell when you've gotten to the point where you're gaslighting and publicly harassing a child for the most heinous crime of wanting to protect our one and only planet from environmental collapse. At least equally depraved - if not moreso - is how some of these fuckers have had the gall to insinuate that raping a child is morally equivalent to a child speaking out about climate change.

Torrocca wrote:

Aclion wrote:Exaggeration is when you talk about an apocalyptic event that cannot be averted when
1. it's not apocalyptic, just disruptive AF

If vast swathes of the planet become uninhabitable, staples of food sources become untenable, and devastating weather effects like hurricanes and dry spells become much more frequent, then that's not just "disruptive AF". That's literally doom for millions - if not outright billions - of people.

2. we already know how to avert it and

Knowing how to avert it and actually taking the actions necessary to avert it are two entirely different things. Also, that's literally the exact point Thunberg and numerous other activists have been making, so now you're just saying that your own point of people screaming about "doomsday fantasies" is a lie.

3. you ignore that many countries, including the country you're giving you're speech in are already reducing their carbon emissions significantly, and are already below their 2020 targets

Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

You do when China chooses to power it's industry with Coal. Doesn't matter what the nationality of the labor is. What matters is climate policy.



Back your words up with some proof, then, champ, since you seem keen on disregarding the science showing how bad things are getting.

You want to talk to your kids about climate change fine. That's good. But don't exaggerate, don't ignore the work being done, and don't pretend we don't have solutions.

Nobody's fucking exaggerating, except perhaps for you, since you keep trying desperately to downplay the real, devastating effects climate change can and will have on the globe, the beginnings of which we're already starting to see.

Torrocca wrote:Also, there's the fact of the matter that the USA has more than double the per capita emissions of China despite having only like a third of the population of China, and released just under half of what China did in CO2 emissions in 2017. That, coupled with the fact that the USA's making even less effort to curtail emissions than China is, is a huge fucking problem.

Liriena wrote:

Loben The 2nd wrote:
no matter how you kick and scream at the end of the day its still their fault.

It's not their capital and their consumers that's fueling it.

Aclion wrote:The US is consistently #1 in carbon reduction every year, with the last two years, years we've been coming out of a recession the first that we fell out of first place since ww2, meanwhile China has been not only the number on emitter, but number one in increasing emissions for over a decade now. If you want our efforts to mean anything you have to have a way to deal with China's emissions.

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:YOU ARE HERE --> Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, but China and India aren't doing anything — so we don’t have to change anything.

Aclion wrote:

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:The Denialist Staircase:
Not only deny global warming, but insist the opposite is occurring, pushing the degree of denialism to the verge of the delusional.

Simply deny global warming is happening and maintain that no action is necessary — so we don't have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, but it’s not caused by humanity — so we don’t have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, and it is in part caused by humanity, but mostly it's caused by solar activity — so we don't have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, and it is in part caused by humanity, but predicting future emission levels is equivalent to astrology — so we don't have to change anything, Ehrlich!

Global warming is caused by humanity, but it may be a good thing — so we don’t have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it may be a bad thing, but [insert emotional appeal and/or false dichotomy about how doing anything about it would prevent the world's poor from improving their lives] — so we don't have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it may be a bad thing, but there are still more serious crises that deserve higher priority — so we don't have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, but it's just human sin, so outside of worthless praying, we don't have to change anything.

YOU ARE HERE --> Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, but China and India aren't doing anything — so we don’t have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, and maybe China and India are willing to do something, but I've heard about this new energy source/technology that's going to completely solve the problem in 10-20 years — so we don't have to change anything.

Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, but even if China and India do something it’s too late for us to do anything and it would cost us a shitload of dough — so we don’t have to change anything.

Global warming was happening, it was caused by humanity, it is a very bad thing and previous governments could and should have done something, but it's too late now!

And may I remind you that two wrongs don't make a right? Just because China produces high quantities of carbon emissions doesn't suddenly give America or any other country for that matter the right to fill the atmosphere with pollutants and eviscerate its environment as it sees fit. And China along with India have already started transitioning to renewable energy and taking concerted action to reduce their emissions:
Overview of China and India's renewable energy sectors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_India

Sources on China:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdud ... uperpower/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1VK087
https://www.csis.org/east-green-chinas- ... ble-energy
https://phys.org/news/2019-08-china-tra ... goals.html

Sources on India:
https://www.ibef.org/industry/renewable-energy.aspx
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/22/in ... -capacity/
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6278

Except we ARE doing things. In fact we are doing the most.

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:Insufficiently however, given that the IPCC's latest report from 2018 didn't show a large-scale reduction in the projected temperature rise

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:I am not making any illusions America will save the world from a climate crisis.

Aclion wrote:Oh i'm sorry, I didn't realize the US was expected to prevent global warming all on it's own.

Aclion wrote:

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:Insufficiently however, given that the IPCC's latest report from 2018 didn't show a large-scale reduction in the projected temperature rise

Oh i'm sorry, I didn't realize the US was expected to prevent global warming all on it's own.

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:I am not making any illusions America will save the world from a climate crisis.

It absolutely wont. You're right. We need to get everyone to commit to our levels of reduction. The US can't prevent the crisis alone.

Duhon wrote:If the girl has in her hands no new info that can't be provided by an actual expert in climatology or whatelse, why extend her the fifteen minutes of fame that expert can use more profitably?

Duhon wrote:(This, and I must stress this, does not excuse the bullying she has gotten from climate change deniers, who dispute not (just) her role and/or her message, but Greta herself.)

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Salandriagado wrote:
True things, you mean?

But it's not, climate doomerism is a meme. Yeah a 4 degree Celsius change would suck, would lead to more extreme weather patterns, probably cause water shortages in some areas and impact traditional methods of agriculture but that's a far cry from the extinction level nonsense some people cling to. Honestly doomers imo have been the most damaging thing to the climate change movement with the sole exception of anti-nuclear morons.

Meligoland wrote:

Loben The 2nd wrote:
to certain people shes the resurrection of christ.

she's a screaming 16-year old but we're supposed to act like she's a policy expert.

Meligoland wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Are people really acting as if she’s a policy expert? I haven’t heard her act like one. You may be exaggerating a smidge here.

she sure acts like it with all the policy changes she demands.

Meligoland wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
She doesn’t seem like one.

And let me stress that it was wrong to attack Kavanaugh’s family just because he is a public figure. And I think it’s deplorable that grownass adults attack this 16 year old because they disagree with her.

because she's demanding that grown adults radically change the ways they live.

and there's nothing wrong with attacking what she says. everyone has the right to disagree with her. she's not more morally virtuous just because she's an angry kid.

The Lone Alliance wrote:

Imbalistan wrote:Well, let's see where that's gotten us..nowhere now, huh? We don't really have alot of time when it comes to climate change.

Realistically if climate change is going to be as bad as Gretta thinks it is.

Then there literally is nothing we can do but bend over and kiss our butts goodbye cause we're not going to be able to restructure our entire society in a way that won't suck for people.

(And I'm not talking about a Green New Deal because it (Even the Right Wing Strawman version of it that banned all meat and planes)) would have barely made a dent in stopping climate change because even if the US somehow went Carbon neutral EVERYONE ELSE WOULDN'T)

For the actual supposed level of work we'd have to do to really stop climate change, we'd likely have to stick large parts of the world under some sort of massive rationing system where electricity, pollution, and trash production was heavily regulated.

And we'd need a massive surveillance and police state to back such a system up. (And then we'd have to deal in the meat black market and people refusing to comply, likely even violently in some cases)

And even then it wouldn't actually stop climate change because the damage has been done. Yes even if every nation on the planet became carbon neutral by the end of the year climate change is still going to happen and it's still going to suck.

Aclion wrote:

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Again I want to point out today that the Daily Wire is essentially saying "Because she has two mental disabilities, her exercising her right to freedom of speech and freedom of protest is child abuse."

Not what they're saying. What they're saying is "terrifying a child with hysterical doomsday prophesies to the point that they're waking up with nightmares is child abuse." which, yeah, that's fuckin abusive as hell.