What if.. Britain decided to join Germany in WW1

[Slavakino]

That is impossible to happen.

[Neanderthaland]

What happens? Germany and Britain win. No contest. It’s likely that the war would’ve ended before the US would get involved if that happened.

Is it likely? Hell no, because Britain has nothing to gain by siding with a Reich hungry for influence and Prussia had squabbles with Britain here and there before Germany ever became a reality.

The future effects? Well, France and Russia would’ve likely been thrown into the state of mid-20s Germany, and its possible communism still would’ve taken over Russia. Hitler likely never would’ve happened and same goes for WW2, but as a result technological development is delayed and we likely wouldn’t be where we are today until the mid 2030s.

So WW2 wouldn't have happened... the way it did in our timeline.

But it's important to remember that even with the example of WW1 (being horrible, and bloody, and pointless), we still fought another one. Now we're talking about a timeline in which a World War resulted in easy victory, and presumably large benefits, for the victors. Of course they'd want to do it again.

[Costa Fierro]

It would have been a much shorter war, as with the assistance of the British the Schlieffen Plan would have likely succeeded in capturing Paris within a matter of weeks. After that, Russia would have been knocked out of the war perhaps a few months later.

It's amusing you think the Russians would have been knocked out. They'd have done what they have always done, just retreat into the vastness that is the Russian Empire and draw on the massive population to grind and wear down the German Army until it eventually became too overstretched to fight back.

Plus the Germans weren't the only ones fighting in the east in the Great War, the Austro-Hungarians were also. And their forces were substantially weaker than even those of Russia, so all Russia would have to do is keep up attacks in the southwest to draw German forces south.

[Costa Fierro]

I suspect that if Franz Ferdinand was not assassinated that Austria-Hungary would have found another cause for war anyway.

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

A victim of its own making.

[Kowani]

I suspect that if Franz Ferdinand was not assassinated that Austria-Hungary would have found another cause for war anyway.

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

After Serbia’s response to the ultimatum (that they purposely made to be impossible), they lose their victim card.

[North German Realm]

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

A victim of its own making.

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

After Serbia’s response to the ultimatum (that they purposely made to be impossible), they lose their victim card.

Not really. The only way it wouldn't be a victim is if it had been able to do exactly what it wanted to Serbia. And even then, they would just be even.

[Novus America]

It would have been a much shorter war, as with the assistance of the British the Schlieffen Plan would have likely succeeded in capturing Paris within a matter of weeks. After that, Russia would have been knocked out of the war perhaps a few months later.

It's amusing you think the Russians would have been knocked out. They'd have done what they have always done, just retreat into the vastness that is the Russian Empire and draw on the massive population to grind and wear down the German Army until it eventually became too overstretched to fight back.

Plus the Germans weren't the only ones fighting in the east in the Great War, the Austro-Hungarians were also. And their forces were substantially weaker than even those of Russia, so all Russia would have to do is keep up attacks in the southwest to draw German forces south.

Umm the Russians were knocked out IRL.
The Germans in WWI were much smarter than in WWII.

Sure Russia can retreat, like they did. Germany then just seizes Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltics and calls it a day. Like what actually happened.

Still wins. You do not need to more of it than you can control.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

That is impossible to happen.

No it wasn't

[Kubra]

And leave a strong Germany on the continent? I think *not*.

[Risottia]

I suspect that if Franz Ferdinand was not assassinated that Austria-Hungary would have found another cause for war anyway.

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

Victim? AH issued an ultimatum which was impossible for any independent country to meet.
AH's government exploited the murder of Franz Ferdinand as a pretext to justify their invasion of Serbia. When in 1898 Kaiserin Elisabeth was killed in Geneva by an Italian, AH didn't even try to issue any kind of ultimatum against Italy - knowing well that they were totally unprepared for a war against Italy. Serbia merely looked like an easier target.

[National Republic of Antagoria]

The Central Powers would probably win unless they are fighting every country in the world (VERY unlikely). So more colonies for Britain and France

[Bears Armed]

I wonder whether Japan makes a land-grab in Russia's "far east"?

One earlier event that could have led to a better relationship between Germany and Britain would have been a significantly longer reign for Kaiser Frederick III, Wilhelm II's father, who died of cancer in RL after reigning for only 99 days… but then that might have made war with France in 1914 less likely as well, anyway.

[Hammer Britannia]

It wouldn't be remembered as the Great War, but rather the time the great powers of the world united to fuck over France and Russia.

[Erythrean Thebes]

It would have been a much shorter war, as with the assistance of the British the Schlieffen Plan would have likely succeeded in capturing Paris within a matter of weeks. After that, Russia would have been knocked out of the war perhaps a few months later.

It's amusing you think the Russians would have been knocked out. They'd have done what they have always done, just retreat into the vastness that is the Russian Empire and draw on the massive population to grind and wear down the German Army until it eventually became too overstretched to fight back.

Plus the Germans weren't the only ones fighting in the east in the Great War, the Austro-Hungarians were also. And their forces were substantially weaker than even those of Russia, so all Russia would have to do is keep up attacks in the southwest to draw German forces south.

I'm not so sure. Stalin and his Communist Party government of Russia were not the same kind of people making the decision to sue for peace or not as Tsar Nicholas II and his cabinet of pro-Western aristocrats..

[Novus America]

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

Victim? AH issued an ultimatum which was impossible for any independent country to meet.
AH's government exploited the murder of Franz Ferdinand as a pretext to justify their invasion of Serbia. When in 1898 Kaiserin Elisabeth was killed in Geneva by an Italian, AH didn't even try to issue any kind of ultimatum against Italy - knowing well that they were totally unprepared for a war against Italy. Serbia merely looked like an easier target.

The killing of Franz was hardly the only thing Serbia was doing. Serbia was hell bent on driving AH out of the Balkans. Serbia and AH could not coexist as they were, war was inevitable.

[Harmonic Empire]

Partition of French and Ottoman Empire
Russian Revolution will be eliminated

There is too much what if

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

I do not think he means literally completely destroyed as a country. IRL Russia got crushed on the battlefield.
Obviously they still would.

But the Germans would still stop at the same point is they did IRL. They did not need or want more. Controlling Eastern Europe through Belarus and Ukraine was enough for them.

And would allow them to counteract any UK blockade.

But this is a problem for the UK. A victorious Germany would be a threat to the UK in the future, the UK would be unable to effectively combat it.

To be fair "We'll let future Britain and future Germany deal with that" wouldn't be too out of character for either Empire.

...So a possible Anglo-German Cold War analogue?

[Harmonic Empire]

To be fair "We'll let future Britain and future Germany deal with that" wouldn't be too out of character for either Empire.

...So a possible Anglo-German Cold War analogue?

Yeah, i think it is really possible. after they dismantled French, Russia, and Ottoman. The cold war might happen, the chance is pretty high in "What If"

[Ayytaly]

Brits would've dominated the entire petromarket via BP.

[DARGLED]

things

[Ethel mermania]

I'm not actually sure how it's possible for the first World War to even come into place if an Anglo-German rivalry wasn't in place to be quite honest.

The germans still had it in for the french, and the Serbs and Austrians were not very fond of each other.

[Totally Not OEP]

H L Mencken on World War I
Baltimore Evening Sun, Nov. 11, 1931, "A Bad Guess," H. L. Mencken

Most of England's appalling troubles today are due to a bad guess: she went into the war on the wrong side in 1914. The theory of her statesmen, in those days, was that, by joining France and Russia, she would give a death-blow to a dangerous rival, Germany, and so be free to run the world. But the scheme failed to work; moreover, it had unexpected and almost fatal results. Not only did Germany come out of the mess a dangerous rival still; France also became a rival, and a very formidable one. Worse, the United States was pumped up to immense proportions, and began to challenge England's control of the world's markets. The results are now visible: England has three competitors instead of one, and is steadily going downhill. If she had gone into the war on the German side she'd be in a much better situation today. The Germans would be grateful for the help and willing to pay for it (while the French are not); the French would be down and out, and hence unable to menace the peace of Europe; Germany would have Russia in Europe and there would be no Bolshevik [communist] nuisance; England would have all of Siberia and Central Asia, and there would be no Japanese threat and no Indian revolt; and the United States would still be a docile British colony, as it was in 1914. . . .

[Nazis in Space]

It's amusing you think the Russians would have been knocked out. They'd have done what they have always done, just retreat into the vastness that is the Russian Empire and draw on the massive population to grind and wear down the German Army until it eventually became too overstretched to fight back.

Your sense of humour seems questionable. Primarily because Russia could not, in fact, do that. Its industry and population was concentrated in the west. If it gave those territories away, Russia would lose its ability to wage war.

Russia had to fight close to the border. Once its army disintegrated and Germany planted boots on - amongst other places - Crimea, it yielded.

Plus the Germans weren't the only ones fighting in the east in the Great War, the Austro-Hungarians were also. And their forces were substantially weaker than even those of Russia, so all Russia would have to do is keep up attacks in the southwest to draw German forces south.

And here, it is worth noting that when Russia drew German forces south (by Romania joining in on the entente‘s side), Russian forces got tangled up in the mess and crushed. Russian military leadership went so far as to specifically complain and demanding that Romania not be welcomed amongst the entente, foreseeing the disaster, but they were overruled by the diplomats.

I mean, the war was inevitable, but given Austria-Hungary was the victim in the crisis that triggered the July Crisis, I resent that comment.

Victim? AH issued an ultimatum which was impossible for any independent country to meet.
AH's government exploited the murder of Franz Ferdinand as a pretext to justify their invasion of Serbia. When in 1898 Kaiserin Elisabeth was killed in Geneva by an Italian, AH didn't even try to issue any kind of ultimatum against Italy - knowing well that they were totally unprepared for a war against Italy. Serbia merely looked like an easier target.

Was the Italian government also compromised by the assassin's backers to the point of forming a shadow government hellbent on provoking a war with AH and counting on Russia bailing them out?

AH's ultimatum didn't come from a vacuum. It was the consequence of there being precisely zero chance that Serbia would actually try a meaningful investigation (and I fully expect that any Serb officials who weren't compromised and tried to do a serious one would soon find themselves quite dead by the hands of the Black Hand and its ilk), nor that Serbia would actually stop with its aggressions.

[Greater Galactic Commonwealth]

It would have been a much shorter war, as with the assistance of the British the Schlieffen Plan would have likely succeeded in capturing Paris within a matter of weeks. After that, Russia would have been knocked out of the war perhaps a few months later.

It's amusing you think the Russians would have been knocked out. They'd have done what they have always done, just retreat into the vastness that is the Russian Empire and draw on the massive population to grind and wear down the German Army until it eventually became too overstretched to fight back.

Plus the Germans weren't the only ones fighting in the east in the Great War, the Austro-Hungarians were also. And their forces were substantially weaker than even those of Russia, so all Russia would have to do is keep up attacks in the southwest to draw German forces south.

lol. Russia was smashed because they were more of a developing econome than anything else. They simply couldn't withstand a long-drawn out war. Nobody could, but especially the russians.

[Luziyca]

The war really would have been over by Christmas. France and Russia couldn't have won against the UK, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottomans. It's also most likely that Italy would have remained aligned with Germany and Austria-Hungary rather than jumping alliance, adding a second front for France.

But if I don't speculate on the outcome of that conflict, it's because it's more than likely that the war never would have begun in the first place.

The strategic calculations undertaken in St Petersburg and Paris in the wake of Franz Ferdinand's assassination were heavily dependent on an assumption of British support in a conflict with the Central Powers. That support was often implicit, and Foreign Secretary Edward Grey wasn't frequently gnomic and opaque about what that support entailed, but it's highly unlikely that Russia and France would have reacted to Vienna's ultimatum against Serbia in the same way without the belief that British support would be forthcoming.

So, assuming the same catalyst point - Franz Ferdinand's fatal visit to Sarajevo - the most likely scenario if Britain is in alliance with Germany and Austria-Hungary instead of France and Russia in the summer of 1918 is that Russia and France intervene diplomatically to smooth out the harsher edges of the Austrian ultimatum in order to guarantee continued Serbian independence, while also forcing Serbia to make serious concessions and perhaps even purge Dragutin Dimitrijević's Black Hand organisation from its position of deep state influence within Serbian government structures.

Bombadil's scenario isn't outrageous, by the way. I recommend Christopher Clark's book The Sleepwalkers here. One of Clark's key points is that the alignment of alliances in the summer of 1914 was temporary rather than inevitable and long-term, and there was no reason why a realignment - with the UK engaging in a rapprochement with Germany, for example - might not have occurred in 1915, especially given ongoing British concerns about Russian ambitions in Persia and Central Asia.

Makes a lot of sense, honestly, and I do agree with your points.