Why do we champion socialism/communism anyway?

[Pannerstone]

I think he reached into a hat and pulled out the first insult he could find when I dared to call his idealism into question. It's like mad libs but in the middle of a debate

Calling Marxism idealism is pretty hilarious and reveals that you don't have even a basic acquaintance with its philosophy

Marxism is literally idealism!

it's the HOPE that you can transition from a socialist society into a perfect communist one.....

I used to be a Marxist then I figured out that it is literally against human nature.

[Washington Resistance Army]

He's saying that democracy, women's rights and the end of fucking slavery 'didn't work' in most places. How is that not psychotic?

Christ this is why I hate NSG

Because it's true. Much of africa, Asia and South America along with the middle East and eastern Europe have next to no democracy, shitty treatment of women and slavery in the present day. IT doesn't mean I support that behavior. It means I know that most places on earth are full of hardship and struggle

Even in the western world democracy is imploding in on itself.

[Alexiandra]

Calling Marxism idealism is pretty hilarious and reveals that you don't have even a basic acquaintance with its philosophy

Marxism is literally idealism!

it's the HOPE that you can transition from a socialist society into a perfect communist one.....

I used to be a Marxist then I figured out that it is literally against human nature.

Marx was responsible for almost singlehandedly ruining the idealist current in 19th century German philosophy. He was a materialist, not an idealist.

"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence."

------ The German Ideology, 1845

[Rojava Free State]

Because it's true. Much of africa, Asia and South America along with the middle East and eastern Europe have next to no democracy, shitty treatment of women and slavery in the present day. IT doesn't mean I support that behavior. It means I know that most places on earth are full of hardship and struggle

Even in the western world democracy is imploding in on itself.

So obviously I'm not just "psychotic."

[Rojava Free State]

Because it's true. Much of africa, Asia and South America along with the middle East and eastern Europe have next to no democracy, shitty treatment of women and slavery in the present day. IT doesn't mean I support that behavior. It means I know that most places on earth are full of hardship and struggle

Wait, how does the fact that these places lack those things prove that those things don't work?

because we have been talking about democracy for hundreds of years but it's restricted mainly to western Europe and parts of east asia and is shrinking every day in the few strongholds it has

[Rojava Free State]

I think he reached into a hat and pulled out the first insult he could find when I dared to call his idealism into question. It's like mad libs but in the middle of a debate

Calling Marxism idealism is pretty hilarious and reveals that you don't have even a basic acquaintance with its philosophy

Lmao it isn't idealistic? You want a stateless and classless society where everyone will willingly share the resources and get along, something that has never happened in history.if that isn't idealism I don't know what is

[The New California Republic]

I think he reached into a hat and pulled out the first insult he could find when I dared to call his idealism into question.

The materialism that defines Marxism would like a word with you...

[Rojava Free State]

I think he reached into a hat and pulled out the first insult he could find when I dared to call his idealism into question.

The materialism that defines Marxism would like a word with you...

What materialism? Marxism legit thinks it can change society in ways that simply aren't possible, so in my book it's idealistic as hell

[Duvniask]

Calling Marxism idealism is pretty hilarious and reveals that you don't have even a basic acquaintance with its philosophy

Marxism is literally idealism!

it's the HOPE that you can transition from a socialist society into a perfect communist one.....

I used to be a Marxist then I figured out that it is literally against human nature.

Marxism is not about "hope". It is about analysis of the relations of production and their material basis and how these create the conditions upon which the transition to a new type of social order becomes possible. For a supposed former "Marxist" you are surprisingly off the mark.

And "human nature" is all too often used as no more than a bullshit term that people like to hide behind.

[Genivaria]

Calling Marxism idealism is pretty hilarious and reveals that you don't have even a basic acquaintance with its philosophy

Lmao it isn't idealistic? You want a stateless and classless society where everyone will willingly share the resources and get along, something that has never happened in history.if that isn't idealism I don't know what is

I mean I'm pretty sure there were punishments for theft and murder even among hunter/gatherers so not sure what the objection is.

[The New California Republic]

The materialism that defines Marxism would like a word with you...

What materialism? Marxism legit thinks it can change society in ways that simply aren't possible, so in my book it's idealistic as hell

"What materialism" in Marxism he says. Fucking hell.

[Genivaria]

Well I'm sure they said democracy, women's rights, end of slavery etc., couldn't work because of human nature as well.

In most places they didn't

So you're saying that they weren't human?
Human nature can't be a problem for some humans but not for other humans, it's almost like 'human nature' is a bs buzzword that's used in place of anything meaningful.

[Alexiandra]

What materialism? Marxism legit thinks it can change society in ways that simply aren't possible, so in my book it's idealistic as hell

"What materialism" in Marxism he says. Fucking hell.

It's almost impossible to argue with these people. I even provided a fucking quote that they ignored.

[Pannerstone]

Marxism is literally idealism!

it's the HOPE that you can transition from a socialist society into a perfect communist one.....

I used to be a Marxist then I figured out that it is literally against human nature.

Marxism is not about "hope". It is about analysis of the relations of production and their material basis and how these create the conditions upon which the transition to a new type of social order becomes possible. For a supposed former "Marxist" you are surprisingly off the mark.

And "human nature" is all too often used as no more than a bullshit term that people like to hide behind.

You will never achieve a communist society because that requires a classless society, and humans divide THEMSELVES into classes on a constant basis, be it race, religion, sexual orientation, political beliefs,culture, geography, etc etc

[Nakena]

Calling Marxism idealism is pretty hilarious and reveals that you don't have even a basic acquaintance with its philosophy

Marxism is literally idealism!

it's the HOPE that you can transition from a socialist society into a perfect communist one.....

I used to be a Marxist then I figured out that it is literally against human nature.

Marxism is not orientated on human nature but on the nature and logic of its own flawed theory.

A hellspace prison build upon a false, mundane as self-defeating dead end logic. Its understandable why it was once popular given the time it has been created within.

It is unfortunate enough that this memeplex and it adherents enjoys an enduring popularity among certain circles and overshadow other ideas that might be more original and useful.

Marxism is not about "hope". It is about analysis of the relations of production and their material basis and how these create the conditions upon which the transition to a new type of social order becomes possible. For a supposed former "Marxist" you are surprisingly off the mark.

And "human nature" is all too often used as no more than a bullshit term that people like to hide behind.

Marxism about developing a gargantuan inescapeable logic thoughtbox system pretty much like Incelism thonk it out on why they will never get laid.

[Genivaria]

The materialism that defines Marxism would like a word with you...

What materialism? Marxism legit thinks it can change society in ways that simply aren't possible, so in my book it's idealistic as hell

You seriously need to read of what you're talking about, you just sound ignorant.

[Rojava Free State]

In most places they didn't

So you're saying that they weren't human?
Human nature can't be a problem for some humans but not for other humans, it's almost like 'human nature' is a bs buzzword that's used in place of anything meaningful.

Human nature is inherently tribalistic and violent. Certain governing policies must be put in place to lessen the influence of these behaviors or else tyranny or anarchy will flourish.

[Rojava Free State]

What materialism? Marxism legit thinks it can change society in ways that simply aren't possible, so in my book it's idealistic as hell

You seriously need to read of what you're talking about, you just sound ignorant.

you're legit telling me that an ideology that strives to create a classless and stateless society isn't idealistic? It will never happen! Never. If that isn't idealism then I don't know what is. I'M not ignorant because I can see from miles away that communism isn't based on how societies actually progress or how people behave

[The New California Republic]

What materialism? Marxism legit thinks it can change society in ways that simply aren't possible, so in my book it's idealistic as hell

"What materialism" in Marxism he says. Fucking hell.

It's almost impossible to argue with these people. I even provided a fucking quote that they ignored.

Honestly, someone questioning where the materialism is in Marxism is one of the most downright hilarious things I've heard this month. It's like someone asking where the water is in a glass full of water...

[Pannerstone]

You seriously need to read of what you're talking about, you just sound ignorant.

you're legit telling me that an ideology that strives to create a classless and stateless society isn't idealistic? It will never happen! Never. If that isn't idealism then I don't know what is. I'M not ignorant because I can see from miles away that communism isn't based on how societies actually progress or how people behave

Your talking to Marxists, they already drank the kool-aid

[Alien Overlord]

In most places they didn't

So you're saying that they weren't human?
Human nature can't be a problem for some humans but not for other humans, it's almost like 'human nature' is a bs buzzword that's used in place of anything meaningful.

Human Nature is an overused buzz word in most cases, but it shouldn't be dismissed entirely. To say that humans in general don't have some universal qualities is naive. The reason that Communism always fails-as well as the reason why socialist states tend to be so horrible to live in is the same. The cause is greed. Greed has been prevalent is almost every society on the planet and is indisputably a part of human nature. It's only natural to want more for yourself or your kids, and its why income disparity is present everywhere apart from small tribalistic groups.

[Genivaria]

You seriously need to read of what you're talking about, you just sound ignorant.

you're legit telling me that an ideology that strives to create a classless and stateless society isn't idealistic? It will never happen! Never. If that isn't idealism then I don't know what is. I'M not ignorant because I can see from miles away that communism isn't based on how societies actually progress or how people behave

You don't know what Idealism means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism

You're using 'idealist' as a synonym for 'naive' when we're referring to philosophical idealism.

[Rojava Free State]

It's almost impossible to argue with these people. I even provided a fucking quote that they ignored.

Honestly, someone questioning where the materialism is in Marxism is one of the most downright hilarious things I've heard this month. It's like someone asking where the water is in a glass full of water...

I'm not asking that because I don't know. I'm asking because it has no relevancy as far as I'm concerned. Marxism is idealistic. I don't know how this is so fucking hard to grasp, but that's what we call ideas that are doomed to fail. Tell me when a communist society actually succeeds without turning into a dictatorship and I'll stop calling it idealism

[The New California Republic]

You seriously need to read of what you're talking about, you just sound ignorant.

you're legit telling me that an ideology that strives to create a classless and stateless society isn't idealistic? It will never happen! Never. If that isn't idealism then I don't know what is. I'M not ignorant because I can see from miles away that communism isn't based on how societies actually progress or how people behave

<------The point.














<------You.

[Duvniask]

Marxism is not about "hope". It is about analysis of the relations of production and their material basis and how these create the conditions upon which the transition to a new type of social order becomes possible. For a supposed former "Marxist" you are surprisingly off the mark.

And "human nature" is all too often used as no more than a bullshit term that people like to hide behind.

You will never achieve a communist society because that requires a classless society, and humans divide THEMSELVES into classes on a constant basis, be it race, religion, sexual orientation, political beliefs,culture, geography, etc etc

You were probably never an actual Marxist, just someone who thought it sounded "cool" and went with it despite not understanding it in the least bit.

In Marxian analysis, classes are those groups that share a common relationship to the means of production and have intrinsic interests that differ from other groups (other classes). Classes aren't just any random division between people.