[POLL] How willing are you to forgive certain actions?

[Panggaea]

I saw a similar poll carried out by the BBC in the United Kingdom earlier this year, and I thought about recreating it to see what the NS community thinks. This above poll is basically asking, if you knew someone who committed one of the ten acts listed, how hard would it be for you to forgive them? i.e. which of the acts listed would it be impossible or extremely difficult for you to forgive? You can pick as many or as little options as you want in the poll. Choose an option if you think it's impossible/difficult to forgive, and leave an option blank if you think it's relatively easier to forgive.

Personally, while all the acts listed are of various degrees of bad, I would find it very much more difficult to forgive someone for child abuse, murder, and sexual abuse. I would find it relatively easy to forgive someone for lying, swearing, and verbal abuse. Meanwhile, my thoughts regarding abuse on social media, discrimination, infidelity, and stealing sit in a grey area, in that I wouldn't say its extremely difficult or impossible to forgive, but I also wouldn't say it would be as easy as forgiving someone for lying, swearing, or verbal abuse.

Let us know what you think after voting.

[Pacomia]

I don’t really know as I’ve never really thought about this, but child abuse and sexual abuse are probably the big ones. Hell, I might even forgive murder. Probably not. Maybe.

[Beatitas]

I don’t really know as I’ve never really thought about this, but child abuse and sexual abuse are probably the big ones. Hell, I might even forgive murder. Probably not. Maybe.

I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

[Infected Mushroom]

I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

[Rojava Free State]

I only forgive people who admit they were wrong.

[Beatitas]

I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

[Nogodia]

I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Well, they're dead, and therefore unable to be understood. I think pulling a strawman like "Hitler & Stalin" (don't you forget Mao) was NOT the best way to initiate discussion.

I personally wouldn't forgive the obvious ones that hurt me, and would very much find it difficult to forgive child abuse. Infidelity is also a no go. I already have that contract in my head: Cheat on me, and unless you can justify it (coerced by a threat, were handicapped in a way that couldn't have been avoided/isn't your fault) it's an instant breakup/divorce.

[-Astoria]

I only forgive people who admit they were wrong.

This, in a nutshell.

[Beatitas]

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Well, they're dead, and therefore unable to be understood. I think pulling a strawman like "Hitler & Stalin" (don't you forget Mao) was NOT the best way to initiate discussion.

I personally wouldn't forgive the obvious ones that hurt me, and would very much find it difficult to forgive child abuse. Infidelity is also a no go. I already have that contract in my head: Cheat on me, and unless you can justify it (coerced by a threat, were handicapped in a way that couldn't have been avoided/isn't your fault) it's an instant breakup/divorce.

So what you're saying is that as long as they have a good reason, then they are forgivable? That makes sense.

[Cappuccina]

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Well, they're dead, and therefore unable to be understood. I think pulling a strawman like "Hitler & Stalin" (don't you forget Mao) was NOT the best way to initiate discussion.

I personally wouldn't forgive the obvious ones that hurt me, and would very much find it difficult to forgive child abuse. Infidelity is also a no go. I already have that contract in my head: Cheat on me, and unless you can justify it (coerced by a threat, were handicapped in a way that couldn't have been avoided/isn't your fault) it's an instant breakup/divorce.

That's a good idea, remember cheaters are never sorry and it's not "an accident". Don't fall for that.

Also, child abusers are some of the worst pieces of shit in the universe.

[Pacomia]

I don’t really know as I’ve never really thought about this, but child abuse and sexual abuse are probably the big ones. Hell, I might even forgive murder. Probably not. Maybe.

I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

[Cappuccina]

I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

Anything? Nothing at all?

[Beatitas]

I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

That's an interesting stand. My question though, is why it's easier to forgive.

I'm sorry for using the word "sin". I come from a religious background. By saying that nothing is intrinsically bad or good, then is what you're saying is that morality is subjective?

[Infected Mushroom]

I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

[Beatitas]

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

In that case, I'm not sure, since the past cannot be altered and their lives cannot be given back. But then again, because the past is past their mistakes are past too.

[Pacomia]

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

That's an interesting stand. My question though, is why it's easier to forgive.

I'm sorry for using the word "sin". I come from a religious background. By saying that nothing is intrinsically bad or good, then is what you're saying is that morality is subjective?

Yeah, I guess so. To the people that did 9/11, they were doing the world a service and saw it as a good thing. To the Nazis, the Holocaust was also a good thing. Different people see different things as good, morality isn’t objective. Of course, if society in general sees something as good or bad, it really just becomes good or bad, which is why it’s generally accepted that 9/11 and the Holocaust were bad. But some people will always disagree.

[Cappuccina]

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

They didn't.

[Beatitas]

That's an interesting stand. My question though, is why it's easier to forgive.

I'm sorry for using the word "sin". I come from a religious background. By saying that nothing is intrinsically bad or good, then is what you're saying is that morality is subjective?

Yeah, I guess so. To the people that did 9/11, they were doing the world a service and saw it as a good thing. To the Nazis, the Holocaust was also a good thing. Different people see different things as good, morality isn’t objective. Of course, if society in general sees something as good or bad, it really just becomes good or bad, which is why it’s generally accepted that 9/11 and the Holocaust were bad. But some people will always disagree.

All of that sounds right.

But let's get back to the original question. Why is murder easier to forgive sometimes?

[Pacomia]

Yeah, I guess so. To the people that did 9/11, they were doing the world a service and saw it as a good thing. To the Nazis, the Holocaust was also a good thing. Different people see different things as good, morality isn’t objective. Of course, if society in general sees something as good or bad, it really just becomes good or bad, which is why it’s generally accepted that 9/11 and the Holocaust were bad. But some people will always disagree.

All of that sounds right.

But let's get back to the original question. Why is murder easier to forgive sometimes?

I don’t know. Just seems like more of a nuanced thing, you know? It’s really a case-by-case basis. I can think of no instance where sexual abuse and child abuse is forgivable. I can think of some where murder is forgivable- say, as revenge for an equally bad or worse thing- I would forgive someone for murdering a sexual abuser, for example.

[Beatitas]

Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

They didn't.

Let's just assume that for a moment, Hitler before shooting himself atoned genuinely and Stalin saw that he was wrong.

Would you forgive them then?

[Beatitas]

All of that sounds right.

But let's get back to the original question. Why is murder easier to forgive sometimes?

I don’t know. Just seems like more of a nuanced thing, you know? It’s really a case-by-case basis. I can think of no instance where sexual abuse and child abuse is forgivable. I can think of some where murder is forgivable- say, as revenge for an equally bad or worse thing- I would forgive someone for murdering a sexual abuser, for example.

When I was reading that, something struck me from something I've heard.

"If fire is fought with fire, the whole world will go up in flames."

Another example: The Red Army on the way to Berlin raped innocent German women. I don't know why exactly, but probably in repercussion for what the Germans did. Did the Soviets do right in your eyes?

[Nogodia]

I'm an atheist, but I always thought about this concept:

If a god is all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful, it should seek to always do what is good, and do it immediately. For some of us, certain actions are immoral, while others condone or even engage in them. Whether it's smoking, loving a member of the same sex, or eating pork, we believe certain things are subjectively immoral or moral. Murder and stealing are a big deal in that regard. While almost everyone agrees it's bad to take something that doesn't belong to you or take another life, some justify the actions, whether out of necessity, starvation, self-defense, etc.

The idea I had is, what if an all-knowing god had an idea of what was objectively good, and acted with all their power to ensure it happened. Sure, 100% of the human population could say "X is bad", but do we really know it is? Frankly, we can't answer that question.

Just my little shower-thought.

[Cappuccina]

They didn't.

Let's just assume that for a moment, Hitler before shooting himself atoned genuinely and Stalin saw that he was wrong.

Would you forgive them then?

No. Their deeds were unforgivable. But it isn't me they would be asking for forgiveness.

[Pacomia]

I don’t know. Just seems like more of a nuanced thing, you know? It’s really a case-by-case basis. I can think of no instance where sexual abuse and child abuse is forgivable. I can think of some where murder is forgivable- say, as revenge for an equally bad or worse thing- I would forgive someone for murdering a sexual abuser, for example.

When I was reading that, something struck me from something I've heard.

"If fire is fought with fire, the whole world will go up in flames."

Another example: The Red Army on the way to Berlin raped innocent German women. I don't know why exactly, but probably in repercussion for what the Germans did. Did the Soviets do right in your eyes?

No, they did not. Those women did nothing wrong.

Raping Hitler might actually be worse, though.

[Beatitas]

I'm an atheist, but I always thought about this concept:

If a god is all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful, it should seek to always do what is good, and do it immediately. For some of us, certain actions are immoral, while others condone or even engage in them. Whether it's smoking, loving a member of the same sex, or eating pork, we believe certain things are subjectively immoral or moral. Murder and stealing are a big deal in that regard. While almost everyone agrees it's bad to take something that doesn't belong to you or take another life, some justify the actions, whether out of necessity, starvation, self-defense, etc.

The idea I had is, what if an all-knowing god had an idea of what was objectively good, and acted with all their power to ensure it happened. Sure, 100% of the human population could say "X is bad", but do we really know it is? Frankly, we can't answer that question.

Just my little shower-thought.

I'm Catholic.

I'll just share my religion's view. I'm not saying that it's true or that you should believe it, these are just my thoughts.

What I have been taught is that since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all good, he only does good. The reason why sin exists is because of free will. If there is no free will, then the world is perfect. But God didn't make it that way. He wanted humans to experience choosing him, thus he allowed free will, and along with it, sin. God does not condone sin, but he allows it.

Also, even if a grave sin is committed, then that doesn't matter as long as you repent.

Remember, these are just my thoughts.