NationStates

There will always be this line or some variation of this thrown in somewhere in every police issue thread. I have been thinking about the bunch for a while now.

Earlier I watched this video of a group of cops surrounding a car while one cop decides to start lying to the driver that he couldnt flim them because of a new law that was passed, now the driver knew he was lying because he was an attorney. In the end only the one cop got demoted. After the heat died down, he was reinstated and promoted right before he quit so he collected the backpay and retired at a higher grade.

Now that in itself is frustrating as this is public money they are using to fund this guys retirement.

But what about the other cops that were milling around but said nothing? They werent reprimanded for not calling out the guy for bold face lying to the attorney. Nobody ever said anything about these guys keeping silent. And thats how I see the majority of the police officers. Guilt by association as they are so fond of using to get their civil forfeiture scams going on.

Does anyone else feel as frustrated about this? Do you have a solution?

This is why I have to chuckle when I hear people say that there are some bad apples in the bunch and that we shouldnt toss them all because its only a small percentage. Well if we start including the silent majority then it suddenly stops becoming a small percentage and the idealized image of the police becomes something sinister.

There are definitely more than a few bad apples. If a police department was literally a bag full of apples being sold in a grocery store all together, there would be enough bad apples that you wouldn't buy the bag.

One problem is that our society justifies things that cops do, like shooting an unarmed person who maybe, potentially, possibly though probably not had been reaching for something that might have been a gun or not by saying "he feared for his life."

It is not unreasonable for a person to want to prioritize their own life even at the expense of others, millions of years of evolution have built our survival instincts, but we should not sign up for duties we aren't fit for. If I'm inside a burning building I will get the fuck out of there, but I know that and therefore I don't try to work as a firefighter because I know I'm not suitable for that kind of job. But sometimes people who are not remotely capable of staying calm and rational in tense situations become cops and that gets people killed.

The same goes for police mercilessly beating people. If someone pisses me off I may want to beat the shit out of them but I am responsible for controlling that urge, and someone who wants to be a cop must be a master of self-control. Or when cops detain and arrest people without just cause, most people cut corners at work in one way or another but being a cop is a job only suited for the people who don't do that.

Police should be the best of the best. Training should be much, much harder and standards should be far higher.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/s ... c-violence

There's a disturbing correllation between police and domestic abuse, would anyone care to explain?

"A bad apple spoils the barrel"

There aren't good cops and bad cops in a department.there's thugs who abuse the rights of civilians and the cowards who look the other way.

A recent study by the Plainview project of several police departments revealed that 24% of their officers posted violent or racist material online. That's almost a quarter. It isn't a few bad apples. It's a handful of crooks and the rest don't have the manhood to call out their corrupt colleagues

Crysuko wrote:https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2019-05-01/police-perpetrators-domestic-violence

There's a disturbing correllation between police and domestic abuse, would anyone care to explain?

A job as a cop is likely to attract someone with sociopathic tendencies, because it's a job that gives a person control that they normally wouldn't have. The authority and prestige basically allows someone to be above the law. Imagine being a power hungry meglomaniac, but you aren't rich enough to be a politician. The next best thing is to be a cop. My family as a whole doesn't trust them. My grandmother doesn't like them. My mom doesn't trust them. I don't either.

It isn't only all about these poor civilians that're screwed over by police personel that're closet or open authoritarians. What about the fact that it is a thankless job that is burdensome to qualify for in a lot of cases, such as needing an expensive criminal justice degree? When plenty of people can probably do well enough in that role through an apprenticeship model? Or the fact that if you aren't sufficiently corrupt or turn a blind eye to certain things, that you're penalized for that within a lot of police departments?

This Baltimore cop from what I remember, was fired for not shooting someone as a first resort. It was perhaps a risk where he could've been gunned down, but he still decided to take that risk and it paid off in a non-violent arrest or deescalation occuring as opposed to a violent incident. That is, it paid off up until higher ups decided- "no, he endangered all of us in not shooting that civilian, lets get rid of him."

Saiwania wrote:It isn't only all about these poor civilians that're screwed over by police personel that're closet or open authoritarians. What about the fact that it is a thankless job that is burdensome to qualify for in a lot of cases, such as needing a criminal justice degree? When plenty of people can probably do well enough in that role through an apprenticeship model? Or the fact that if you aren't sufficiently corrupt or turn a blind eye to certain things, that you're penalized for that within a lot of police departments?

This Baltimore cop from what I remember, was fired for not shooting someone as a first resort. It was perhaps a risk where he could've been gunned down, but he still decided to take that risk and it paid off in a non-violent arrest or deescalation occuring as opposed to a violent incident. That is, it paid off up until higher ups decided- "no, he endangered all of us in not shooting that civilian, lets get rid of him."

This is the issue with the system. The system is based on violence and aggression. Deescalation isn't really a thing in a lot of departments and in too many, the public stops being the people you protect and starts being a potential enemy.

At day's end, the police are the thin blue line between the elite and the commoner anyhow, so in a plutocracy like our own, they increasingly protect only certain people, like when the mayor of Baltimore gave the rioters "room to burn" in the poor West side, but then called in all forces when violence migrated into the business district

Saiwania wrote:It isn't only all about these poor civilians that're screwed over by police personel that're closet or open authoritarians. What about the fact that it is a thankless job that is burdensome to qualify for in a lot of cases, such as needing an expensive criminal justice degree? When plenty of people can probably do well enough in that role through an apprenticeship model? Or the fact that if you aren't sufficiently corrupt or turn a blind eye to certain things, that you're penalized for that within a lot of police departments?

This Baltimore cop from what I remember, was fired for not shooting someone as a first resort. It was perhaps a risk where he could've been gunned down, but he still decided to take that risk and it paid off in a non-violent arrest or deescalation occuring as opposed to a violent incident. That is, it paid off up until higher ups decided- "no, he endangered all of us in not shooting that civilian, lets get rid of him."

oh woe is me, i'm relied upon to uphold the law and not make an ass of myself. Truly the burden is too much.

Crysuko wrote:

Saiwania wrote:It isn't only all about these poor civilians that're screwed over by police personel that're closet or open authoritarians. What about the fact that it is a thankless job that is burdensome to qualify for in a lot of cases, such as needing an expensive criminal justice degree? When plenty of people can probably do well enough in that role through an apprenticeship model? Or the fact that if you aren't sufficiently corrupt or turn a blind eye to certain things, that you're penalized for that within a lot of police departments?

This Baltimore cop from what I remember, was fired for not shooting someone as a first resort. It was perhaps a risk where he could've been gunned down, but he still decided to take that risk and it paid off in a non-violent arrest or deescalation occuring as opposed to a violent incident. That is, it paid off up until higher ups decided- "no, he endangered all of us in not shooting that civilian, lets get rid of him."

oh woe is me, i'm relied upon to uphold the law and not make an ass of myself. Truly the burden is too much.

The job doesn't turn them evil. They were out of control from the start and took the job to satisfy their desires for power and violence

Rojava Free State wrote:

Crysuko wrote:oh woe is me, i'm relied upon to uphold the law and not make an ass of myself. Truly the burden is too much.

The job doesn't turn them evil. They were out of control from the start and took the job to satisfy their desires for power and violence

it would seem a worrying amount of sociopaths are drawn to law enforcement

Crysuko wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
The job doesn't turn them evil. They were out of control from the start and took the job to satisfy their desires for power and violence

it would seem a worrying amount of sociopaths are drawn to law enforcement

There wouldn't be so many in law enforcement if many police departments didn't have a revolving door policy, where an officer fired for misconduct from one can still get a job in another. There's also the blue wall of silence, where cops refuse to turn in troublemakers among their ranks.

Rojava Free State wrote:There aren't good cops and bad cops in a department.there's thugs who abuse the rights of civilians and the cowards who look the other way.

A recent study by the Plainview project of several police departments revealed that 24% of their officers posted violent or racist material online. That's almost a quarter. It isn't a few bad apples. It's a handful of crooks and the rest don't have the manhood to call out their corrupt colleagues

An important question is: what counts as "violent" and/or "racist"?

Rojava Free State wrote:so in a plutocracy like our own, they increasingly protect only certain people, like when the mayor of Baltimore gave the rioters "room to burn" in the poor West side, but then called in all forces when violence migrated into the business district

This is a legitimate tactic if you don't have or don't want to jeopardise the resources for a full-on attack - dissipating the enemy's energy in a written-off territory.

Your daily reminder that police have no duty to serve the public under US law.

Kowani wrote:Your daily reminder that police have no duty to serve the public under US law.

Really doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand as the OP points to police who abuse their position of authority, some almost Judge Dredd like.
Police do however take an oath to support and defend the constitution.

Grinning Dragon wrote:

Kowani wrote:Your daily reminder that police have no duty to serve the public under US law.

Really doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand as the OP points to police who abuse their position of authority, some almost Judge Dredd like.

I know. My point is that the entire system is built to incentivize these “bad apples.”

Police do however take an oath to support and defend the constitution.

Oaths are worth their weight in gold.

Crysuko wrote:oh woe is me, i'm relied upon to uphold the law and not make an ass of myself. Truly the burden is too much.

This is the most steaming hot (pile of garbage) take I've heard in a while. The boys and girls in blue throughout the world have to see and put up with some of the most horrific shit you could imagine, short of serving in the armed forces. Car crashes, domestic abuse, murder scenes, rapes, pedophilia, the list goes on. Not to mention that most cops from what I've seen get paid peanuts at the junior ranks. Being a cop isn't just sitting around eating donuts all day beating minorities or some shit. Grow up.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:There aren't good cops and bad cops in a department.there's thugs who abuse the rights of civilians and the cowards who look the other way.

A recent study by the Plainview project of several police departments revealed that 24% of their officers posted violent or racist material online. That's almost a quarter. It isn't a few bad apples. It's a handful of crooks and the rest don't have the manhood to call out their corrupt colleagues

An important question is: what counts as "violent" and/or "racist"?

Rojava Free State wrote:so in a plutocracy like our own, they increasingly protect only certain people, like when the mayor of Baltimore gave the rioters "room to burn" in the poor West side, but then called in all forces when violence migrated into the business district

This is a legitimate tactic if you don't have or don't want to jeopardise the resources for a full-on attack - dissipating the enemy's energy in a written-off territory.

"It's a good day for a chokehold" said the guy you trust with a gun and a badge.it's stuff like that. The officers involved are being investigated for these comments which were on their Facebook profiles. Police ought to be held to a higher standard than the public considering the job they do and yet we let them get away with so much shit. Things gotta change.

As for the second part, I didn't know letting part of your city burn down was a legit tactic.I think most would see it simply as the people in power saying "let's get out of here. Let them kill each other, fuck them"

Drongonia wrote:

Crysuko wrote:oh woe is me, i'm relied upon to uphold the law and not make an ass of myself. Truly the burden is too much.

This is the most steaming hot (pile of garbage) take I've heard in a while. The boys and girls in blue throughout the world have to see and put up with some of the most horrific shit you could imagine, short of serving in the armed forces. Car crashes, domestic abuse, murder scenes, rapes, pedophilia, the list goes on. Not to mention that most cops from what I've seen get paid peanuts at the junior ranks. Being a cop isn't just sitting around eating donuts all day beating minorities or some shit. Grow up.

Some cops sure seem to think it is

Drongonia wrote:

Crysuko wrote:oh woe is me, i'm relied upon to uphold the law and not make an ass of myself. Truly the burden is too much.

This is the most steaming hot (pile of garbage) take I've heard in a while. The boys and girls in blue throughout the world have to see and put up with some of the most horrific shit you could imagine, short of serving in the armed forces. Car crashes, domestic abuse, murder scenes, rapes, pedophilia, the list goes on. Not to mention that most cops from what I've seen get paid peanuts at the junior ranks. Being a cop isn't just sitting around eating donuts all day beating minorities or some shit. Grow up.

There is no excuse for shooting defenseless people who have already surrendered. there is no excuse for using your strength to abuse a spouse or children, and there is no excuse for covering up the wrongdoing of others. I could not possibly care less what you do in a day, you are a shit person who should be held accountable if you take the amount of piss the modern police do.

Rojava Free State wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:An important question is: what counts as "violent" and/or "racist"?


This is a legitimate tactic if you don't have or don't want to jeopardise the resources for a full-on attack - dissipating the enemy's energy in a written-off territory.

"It's a good day for a chokehold" said the guy you trust with a gun and a badge.it's stuff like that. The officers involved are being investigated for these comments which were on their Facebook profiles. Police ought to be held to a higher standard than the public considering the job they do and yet we let them get away with so much shit. Things gotta change.

As for the second part, I didn't know letting part of your city burn down was a legit tactic.I think most would see it simply as the people in power saying "let's get out of here. Let them kill each other, fuck them"

What's important is the context and intent of what is said.

Also, letting part of your city burn down is a legit tactic. See Napoleon's army in Moscow.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
"It's a good day for a chokehold" said the guy you trust with a gun and a badge.it's stuff like that. The officers involved are being investigated for these comments which were on their Facebook profiles. Police ought to be held to a higher standard than the public considering the job they do and yet we let them get away with so much shit. Things gotta change.

As for the second part, I didn't know letting part of your city burn down was a legit tactic.I think most would see it simply as the people in power saying "let's get out of here. Let them kill each other, fuck them"

What's important is the context and intent of what is said.

Also, letting part of your city burn down is a legit tactic. See Napoleon's army in Moscow.

Pretty sure the job of the police is to stop any part of the city from burning down. I have yet to see the fire department say "a house is burning down, let's just let the whole block burn and we'll defend the houses on the next street."

as for the context, I don't care what it is. I don't trust a guy who thinks chokeholds or abuse are funny with a gun, nor does anyone else. If the police can't get their shit together then something needs to be done about them. I'm sure there are people far more qualified for the job than the aggressive violent thugs. At day's end, abuse in many police departments is documented and often caught on video, and whether the stress of the job caused it or the guys were just crazy, there is no excuse for the police to act as bad as the local gang members.

Rojava Free State wrote:

Crysuko wrote:it would seem a worrying amount of sociopaths are drawn to law enforcement

There wouldn't be so many in law enforcement if many police departments didn't have a revolving door policy, where an officer fired for misconduct from one can still get a job in another. There's also the blue wall of silence, where cops refuse to turn in troublemakers among their ranks.

Yes I totally agree actually. I wish deescalation of violence is more of a thing in police departments . ie. bringing down a violent person’s anger to a controllable level.Giving the police officers conflict resolution training or mediation of a violent situation would be a great first step. The blue wall of silence stuff is another problem that is worrisome,the police in question won’t step up and turn in the troublemakers in their ranks.

It's not so much that the police department has bad apples in it, it's that it is systematically set up by politicians to be in such a way as to incentivise being one, especially the fact that it's almost impossible for bad cops to get into any serious trouble. We have literally seen them repeatedly get away with murder.

Needs reform. Badly.

Rojava Free State wrote:

Petrolheadia wrote:What's important is the context and intent of what is said.

Also, letting part of your city burn down is a legit tactic. See Napoleon's army in Moscow.

Pretty sure the job of the police is to stop any part of the city from burning down. I have yet to see the fire department say "a house is burning down, let's just let the whole block burn and we'll defend the houses on the next street."

That was legitimately the strategy for fire fighters in post-Earthquake San Francisco. They had few workers, but plenty dynamite.