Ooh this is interesting: A mass shooting, but in SELF-DEF???

[The Emerald Legion]

Honestly we need to go back to Early America where you could have whatever you could afford.

Cannon equipped war ships included. There was a time where people came to America to arm themselves before returning to their home nations to fight tyrants.

Did they really? Sounds like an awful lot of effort.

Well... When the Americans are willing to sell just about anyone military grade weapons that aren't easily gotten elsewhere.

Sadly it is now against the law to arm and equip foreign troops at war with someone we are at peace with.

[Ifreann]

Did they really? Sounds like an awful lot of effort.

Well... When the Americans are willing to sell just about anyone military grade weapons that aren't easily gotten elsewhere.

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

[Ethel mermania]

Well... When the Americans are willing to sell just about anyone military grade weapons that aren't easily gotten elsewhere.

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

We are going to build some muskets and the French are going to pay for it. --- Ben Franklin

[Ifreann]

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

We are going to build some muskets and the French are going to pay for it. --- Ben Franklin

That does sound like something he'd say.

[Ethel mermania]

We are going to build some muskets and the French are going to pay for it. --- Ben Franklin

That does sound like something he'd say.

Pretty much what happened. Louie bankrupted himself supporting the american revolution.

But he didnt send his best muskets... need to work than into Benny's speech.

[Diopolis]

There are occasionally stand your ground situations that shouldn’t be considered justified. This is not one of them.

[Diopolis]

Can't say I feel much sympathy for the teens. They were stupid enough to burglarize a house, and they should have known this might happen.

Unless you live in western europe or east asia, you ought to know that there's a major chance the house you broke into has an armed owner and that you might get shot. If you're too dumb to realize that or too crazy to care, there isn't much else we can do for you

They didn't burglarise.. is that a word, isn't burgle a thing.. they approached three people outside their home at 4am in the morning.

I'm perfectly happy to accept this was self-defence and etc., but it all sounds dodgy as hell. Three 16 year olds at 4am in a garden with three other people, all with guns.

Frankly I'm awaiting further details before making any judgment.

Crime tends to happen at odd hours.

[Greed and Death]

I really dislike the bringing up of stand your ground in this.

All stand your ground means is you do not have run away when there is a reasonable opportunity to do so.

In this case there is no reasonable opportunity to retreat because you cannot outrun bullets.

[Kernen]

Well... When the Americans are willing to sell just about anyone military grade weapons that aren't easily gotten elsewhere.

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

[The Blaatschapen]

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

Another tradition stolen from the Dutch

[Greed and Death]

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

And by the 1900s we started civil wars to sell more to both sides.

[Kernen]

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

Another tradition stolen from the Dutch

You snooze, you lose, Dutch Empire!

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

And by the 1900s we started civil wars to sell more to both sides.

This country can be just So. Damn. Beautiful.

[Chan Island]

About as clear a case of selfdefense as you'd get. I say the owner shouldn't be charged.

[Ifreann]

Spending months crossing the Atlantic on a wooden sail ship vs take your horse to the next kingdom over and pick up some muskets

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

---

About as clear a case of selfdefense as you'd get. I say the owner shouldn't be charged.

Personally I'd be a bit dubious about accepting something as self-defence when all the people who might say otherwise are dead. It's very easy to say the dead guy started it.

[Loben The 2nd]

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

---

About as clear a case of selfdefense as you'd get. I say the owner shouldn't be charged.

Personally I'd be a bit dubious about accepting something as self-defence when all the people who might say otherwise are dead. It's very easy to say the dead guy started it.

They were on his property and were armed.

[The Emerald Legion]

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

---

About as clear a case of selfdefense as you'd get. I say the owner shouldn't be charged.

Personally I'd be a bit dubious about accepting something as self-defence when all the people who might say otherwise are dead. It's very easy to say the dead guy started it.

And they did. By coming to America for guns.

[Chan Island]

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

---

About as clear a case of selfdefense as you'd get. I say the owner shouldn't be charged.

Personally I'd be a bit dubious about accepting something as self-defence when all the people who might say otherwise are dead. It's very easy to say the dead guy started it.

The 3 dead guys were on his property and fired a gun on that place. Seems pretty clearcut to me.

[Ifreann]

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

---

Personally I'd be a bit dubious about accepting something as self-defence when all the people who might say otherwise are dead. It's very easy to say the dead guy started it.

They were on his property and were armed.

If they were alive, maybe they'd have a different version of events.

[The Emerald Legion]

They were on his property and were armed.

If they were alive, maybe they'd have a different version of events.

What, are you implying he planted the gun?

[Gormwood]

They were on his property and were armed.

If they were alive, maybe they'd have a different version of events.

That's the problem with Stand Your Ground. Encourages people to kill each other instead of backing down so they can say the dead one threatened them.

[Ifreann]

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

---

Personally I'd be a bit dubious about accepting something as self-defence when all the people who might say otherwise are dead. It's very easy to say the dead guy started it.

The 3 dead guys were on his property and fired a gun on that place. Seems pretty clearcut to me.

According to the guy who shot them and his friends.

I'm not saying the kids were definitely innocent or anything. Going around in masks at 4 in the morning is pretty sketchy. I'm just advocating a general principle of scepticism when the person who did all the killing claims self defence.

[Ifreann]

If they were alive, maybe they'd have a different version of events.

What, are you implying he planted the gun?

That doesn't seem likely. But someone having a gun doesn't necessarily mean that killing them was self defence.

[Thermodolia]

What, are you implying he planted the gun?

That doesn't seem likely. But someone having a gun doesn't necessarily mean that killing them was self defence.

But being shot at generally does

[Kernen]

The next kingdom over wouldn't necessarily sell them to you. For example, Simon Bolivar's fourth attempt to throw the Spanish out of Spanish America was supplied, in great amounts, by US merchants, since the British were unwilling to sell arms to their ally's colonies to keep the Fourth Coalition together. Napoleon was a bigger threat.

By the second half of the 1800s, the US was cheerfully selling arms basically worldwide. A proud tradition.

I've been told for years that no matter what restrictions are in place, people will just get guns illegally. I guess that must be a modern phenomenon.

It is fairly modern, since most European arms foundries were state-owned or controlled at the time, and the state wouldn't sell to it's political enemies.

And it was clearly avoidable as a restriction, since the US, free of the political alliance constraints of continental Europe, sold them freely.

Oh, and there's a difference between supplying a military and selling individual arms to individual persons.

I can go on. Should I go on?

[Kernen]

They were on his property and were armed.

If they were alive, maybe they'd have a different version of events.

Possibly, but the emergency requirements of defending oneself supersede the value of a public trial. If police had a perfect record of responding on-time to emergencies, that metric may be different.