RWC 19

[Costa Fierro]

As it stands, due to the bonus point, Italy are topping Pool B with 5 points to NZ in 2nd at 4 points, and their next match is against Canada so they could easily remain there for the next week or two.

Depends on whether or not they get more bonus points against Canada or New Zealand doesn't do the same against Canada also. Interesting that the Canadians haven't played yet and then they play Italy and then New Zealand in five days.

Wouldn't want to be them.

[The Archregimancy]

<Sigh>
Now I'm not sure we'll even get out of the group so we can enjoy our traditional ceremonial thrashing at the hands of the All Blacks.

We're in for a steamrolling at the hands of both All Blacks and Springboks. Without even having to get out of the group! O wonderful luck!

So jealous.

[The Archregimancy]

No its pretty good. It's the rugby tune. Though that could be because UK broadcasters play it during every ad break...

Oh it's the I Vow to Thee knock off.

Just to be pedantic, while it uses the same tune as the traditional hymn I Vow To Thee My Country, both A World in Union and I Vow To Thee My Country are knock-offs of the central section of Jupiter from Gustav Holst's The Planets suite.

Go to the 2:54 mark here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz0b4STz1lo

[Chestaan]

Japan has beaten the Springboks before so there's every chance Italy will.

It's entirely possible that Japan are better than Italy.

And possibly even better than Scotland

[The Blaatschapen]

It's entirely possible that Japan are better than Italy.

And possibly even better than Scotland

Maybe even better than Netherlands.

Despite Netherlands not losing a single match during this RWC (not counting qualifications)

[The Archregimancy]

Georgia are showing in this second half why they deserve more chances against Tier 1 nations.

I'm typing this with about 6-7 minutes left in the match, and Georgia are currently winning the second half 14-7.

Now, they did have a dismal opening spell, with Wales 22-0 up after 22 minutes; which is why the actual score is 36-14. But Georgia haven't given up, have dug in their heels, and have had an excellent second half, including two tries and not conceding any points while one of their players was sin-binned for 10 minutes.

Rugby really needs to find a way of giving more encouragement to the leading Tier 2 nations. We would benefit from a broader pool of competitive nations, including the likes of Georgia and Fiji.


And I clearly cursed Georgia; while I've been writing this Wales have scored a try. The basic point stands, though.

[The Blaatschapen]

Georgia are showing in this second half why they deserve more chances against Tier 1 nations.

I'm typing this with about 6-7 minutes left in the match, and Georgia are currently winning the second half 14-7.

Now, they did have a dismal opening spell, with Wales 22-0 up after 22 minutes; which is why the actual score is 36-14. But Georgia haven't given up, have dug in their heels, and have had an excellent second half, including two tries and not conceding any points while one of their players was sin-binned for 10 minutes.

Rugby really needs to find a way of giving more encouragement to the leading Tier 2 nations. We would benefit from a broader pool of competitive nations, including the likes of Georgia and Fiji.


And I clearly cursed Georgia; while I've been writing this Wales have scored a try. The basic point stands, though.

Isn't it your unwanted running gag that every country you support on NSG in a world cup (regardless of sport), loses?

[Bombadil]

Georgia are showing in this second half why they deserve more chances against Tier 1 nations.

I'm typing this with about 6-7 minutes left in the match, and Georgia are currently winning the second half 14-7.

Now, they did have a dismal opening spell, with Wales 22-0 up after 22 minutes; which is why the actual score is 36-14. But Georgia haven't given up, have dug in their heels, and have had an excellent second half, including two tries and not conceding any points while one of their players was sin-binned for 10 minutes.

Rugby really needs to find a way of giving more encouragement to the leading Tier 2 nations. We would benefit from a broader pool of competitive nations, including the likes of Georgia and Fiji.


And I clearly cursed Georgia; while I've been writing this Wales have scored a try. The basic point stands, though.

Not to disagree that Georgia should get more games but their showing in the 2nd half is possibly predicated on Wales winning the first half, as their captain notes..

“We’re probably a bit disappointed with the second half, to be honest. It’s a good result but there is plenty to work on. We took our foot off the gas a bit.”

[Wopruthien]

Georgia are showing in this second half why they deserve more chances against Tier 1 nations.

I'm typing this with about 6-7 minutes left in the match, and Georgia are currently winning the second half 14-7.

Now, they did have a dismal opening spell, with Wales 22-0 up after 22 minutes; which is why the actual score is 36-14. But Georgia haven't given up, have dug in their heels, and have had an excellent second half, including two tries and not conceding any points while one of their players was sin-binned for 10 minutes.

Rugby really needs to find a way of giving more encouragement to the leading Tier 2 nations. We would benefit from a broader pool of competitive nations, including the likes of Georgia and Fiji.


And I clearly cursed Georgia; while I've been writing this Wales have scored a try. The basic point stands, though.

They were very good second half, but Wales had definitely taken their foot off the gas and very much switched off.

Saying that, Italy played Georgia in 2018 and won 28-17. You are right that both Georgia, Japan and Fiji deserve more games against Tier 1 nations, but I really don't like the idea of an Annual World Rugby competition thing (to replace the 6 nations and the Rugby Championship). Pretty much replaces the world cup as well.

What I'd like to see the best Tier 2 nation in Europe (most likely Georgia) plays the wooden spoon in the 6 nations for chance to replace them next season. Same with the Rugby Championship for Fiji/Japan/Other. Though the Rugby Championship could easily incorporate Fiji and Japan and rather than play everyone twice do alternate years home and away on a similar format to the 6 nations.

[The Archregimancy]

Not to disagree that Georgia should get more games but their showing in the 2nd half is possibly predicated on Wales winning the first half, as their captain notes..

“We’re probably a bit disappointed with the second half, to be honest. It’s a good result but there is plenty to work on. We took our foot off the gas a bit.”

They were very good second half, but Wales had definitely taken their foot off the gas and very much switched off.

Perhaps, but there are plenty of 'lesser' rugby nations who would have wilted regardless through a combination of lack of top-level skill and lack of fitness. If Wales did relax somewhat, then at least Georgia had both the skill and the fitness to take advantage.

Saying that, Italy played Georgia in 2018 and won 28-17.

In Rome; I would have liked to have seen a return leg in Tbilisi.

Scotland are the only Tier 1 nation to have travelled to Georgia - this year, as a World Cup warm-up. Scotland also won 44-10 (and then 36-9 in the return match in Edinburgh). So the last three matches Georgia have played against Six Nations sides that aren't Italy have ended in 44-10, 36-9, and 43-14 losses at home, away, and neutral venues respectively. Those aren't results that scream for Georgia's inclusion in the Six Nations, but they're caught in a bind; far too good for the second-level Rugby Europe Championship - which they've won 7 out of the last 8 editions, going undefeated 4 out of the last 5 - and obviously not quite good enough for the Six Nations. And the Six Nations is a closed shop; rugby considerations aside, Italy bring in more revenue than Georgia ever would. It's a shame that's what it comes down to, but it's worth recognising the reality.

There's no easy answer to the Georgia problem; but at the very least at least one Tier 1 nation should go to Tbilisi once a year. It's nothing short of a scandal that it took until 2019 for any Tier 1 nation to make the trip.

[Bombadil]

There's no easy answer to the Georgia problem; but at the very least at least one Tier 1 nation should go to Tbilisi once a year. It's nothing short of a scandal that it took until 2019 for any Tier 1 nation to make the trip.

Can go back to the 5 Nations format but Italy, Scotland and Georgia play a round robin initially to see who's included.

[Costa Fierro]

I don't see why the six nations can't include Georgia. After all, Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship always omitted Argentina from both respective competitions, and once they were included, Argentina improved massively, to the extent now that they've beaten both Australia and South Africa on more than one occasion. And while this year they failed to win a match, they weren't completely trounced (unlike us at the first match of the Bledisloe Cup in Perth where Australia won 47-26) and only lost by a few points.

Being exposed to better sides more often gives them learning opportunities and improvements to how they play, to the point where they start to become competitive. If Italy can be given a run for their money by a team with hardly any professional players (Namibia), Georgia shouldn't be a problem.

[The Archregimancy]

I don't see why the six nations can't include Georgia.

If it were solely a rugby question, you'd be absolutely right.

Unfortunately, it isn't. The Six Nations is a private organisation run by Six Nations Rugby Ltd. Organisationally and administratively it has nothing to do with World Rugby or the other European competitions. It's a closed shop run for commercial profit for the participating unions and the administrators, and none of the participants have any commercial incentive to include Georgia and either add a weekend in Tbilisi to the schedule, or replace a weekend in Rome with a weekend in Tbilisi. Now, Tbilisi happens to be an amazing city that's well worth a visit; but it's not remotely as easy to get to as Rome is, nor does it offer the same commercial opportunities.

I imagine most people posting in this thread think that's terribly shortsighted from the perspective of developing the sport; but Six Nations Rugby Ltd don't give a flying copulation about developing the sport beyond the six participating unions.


What we want to avoid is a repeat of Romania - competitive through the late 80s, and always the most likely team to be called in to expand the Five Nations up until a combination of the Romanian Revolution (the Ceausescus were strong supporters of the sport) undermining the internal support structures and other countries failing to offer external support in a period of turmoil led to the collapse of Romania as a competitive rugby nation and the rise of Italy as the main European alternative.

[Wopruthien]

I don't see why the six nations can't include Georgia.

If it were solely a rugby question, you'd be absolutely right.

Unfortunately, it isn't. The Six Nations is a private organisation run by Six Nations Rugby Ltd. Organisationally and administratively it has nothing to do with World Rugby or the other European competitions. It's a closed shop run for commercial profit for the participating unions and the administrators, and none of the participants have any commercial incentive to include Georgia and either add weekend in Tbilisi to the schedule, or replace a weekend in Rome with a weekend in Tbilisi. Now, Tbilisi happens to be an amazing city that's well worth a visit; but it's not remotely as easy to get to as Rome is, nor does it offer the same commercial opportunities.

I imagine most people posting in this thread think that's terribly shortsighted from the perspective of developing the sport; but Six Nations Rugby Ltd don't give a flying copulation about developing the sport beyond the six participating unions.


What we want to avoid is a repeat of Romania - competitive through the late 80s, and always the most likely team to be called in to expand the Five Nations up until a combination of the Romanian Revolution (the Ceausescus were strong supporters of the sport) undermining the internal support structures and other countries failing to offer external support in a period of turmoil led to the collapse of Romania as a competitive rugby nation and the rise of Italy as the main European alternative.

Pretty much all of this. I doubt that the 6 nations would want to become 7. It adds an extra weekend, means one of the teams is sitting out every weekend and 6 just works better as a number. I really hope they don't go down the global rugby game that has been proposed, but there does need to be some scope to include teams like Georgia so we don't see a similar to Romania. I'd very much like to see them in a play off with the 6th placed 6 Nations team. However, I cannot see any of the teams agreeing to that. Particularly Italy who will potentially be the ones to lose out.

I've been impressed with Russia, for a team that didn't look like qualifying a few months ago and were handed the position because 3 teams fielded ineligible players they've been mightily impressive. They have had their chances against Samoa, particularly that first half. The Samoan's have just pulled away from them in the 2nd half which is not surprising given majority are part time players and Samoa is such a physically tiring side as are all the pacific islands.

[Costa Fierro]

Big oof for Fiji, suffering their first ever loss to Uruguay 27-30 with the final conversion bouncing off the left post. Uruguay looked like they played a good game so congrats to them.

[Bombadil]

Big oof for Fiji, suffering their first ever loss to Uruguay 27-30 with the final conversion bouncing off the left post. Uruguay looked like they played a good game so congrats to them.

I wonder why it's so hard to translate 7's form into Union. Essentially Fiji should have wonderful backs, and I don't see how it's so hard to have powerful, quick handed forwards.

I really do think it's a matter of experience and game play, as the US coach puts it..

“I do not see our task in this group as daunting but it is difficult,” said Gold. “What is clear is that countries like the US, Georgia, Japan, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga need far greater exposure to tier one countries in between World Cups. The Nations league plan has collapsed: I am not a politician so I do not know why but there is no way the rest of us should be feeding off the scraps that fall from the top table. The schedule needs locking at.”

[Wopruthien]

Big oof for Fiji, suffering their first ever loss to Uruguay 27-30 with the final conversion bouncing off the left post. Uruguay looked like they played a good game so congrats to them.

I wonder why it's so hard to translate 7's form into Union. Essentially Fiji should have wonderful backs, and I don't see how it's so hard to have powerful, quick handed forwards.

I think Fiji looked really tired and not very fluid today. It is only a 4 day turn around after they put everything into playing Australia, and after doing that and still getting beat they just didn't really look they had the fight in them. I don't think they expected Uruguay to have so much heart and effort, or to be anywhere close to as good as they were, and by the time they realised they needed to stop being so complacent they were too far behind.

All of that being said, the victory is incredible and should not at all detract from what was a huge shock which was thoroughly deserved. Hope to see more of it in the rest of the world cup. Hopefully start with the USA and then Japan the next few days.

[Bombadil]

I wonder why it's so hard to translate 7's form into Union. Essentially Fiji should have wonderful backs, and I don't see how it's so hard to have powerful, quick handed forwards.

I think Fiji looked really tired and not very fluid today. It is only a 4 day turn around after they put everything into playing Australia, and after doing that and still getting beat they just didn't really look they had the fight in them. I don't think they expected Uruguay to have so much heart and effort, or to be anywhere close to as good as they were, and by the time they realised they needed to stop being so complacent they were too far behind.

All of that being said, the victory is incredible and should not at all detract from what was a huge shock which was thoroughly deserved. Hope to see more of it in the rest of the world cup. Hopefully start with the USA and then Japan the next few days.

Yes, and here's hoping those underdogs Australia manage to beat the valley boys of Wales.

Otherwise the action of bowing after the game, first done by NZ, is taking off..

The show of appreciation – which in other circumstances can be one of contrition – has burnished the All Blacks’ reputation in Japan, where footage of the moment drew an enthusiastic response on social media.

Italy, Samoa, Namibia, Ireland and Wales are among the teams to have bowed at the end of their matches, win or lose.

The USA head coach, Gary Gold, said his side would do the same regardless of the result of their second pool match, against England in Kobe on Thursday evening, according to Kyodo news agency.

Having cleared up after themselves in the football World Cup, Japan surely has the best fans in the world.

[Costa Fierro]

Canada is looking pretty woeful against Italy at the moment, who look set to produce another win to further boost their lead at the top of Group 5.

[Radiatia]

Personally I'll be happy if any team from the northern hemisphere wins - preferably Ireland, but I'm happy if England or Wales get it.

Of course this won't happen.

New Zealand will win, yawn yawn, and there will be another four years of non-stop arrogance from the NZ media about how the sun shines out the All Blacks' asses.

[Costa Fierro]

Italy have thumped Canada 48-7 and England are currently holding the USA scoreless, but not that far ahead. England are up only 19-0 at the beginning of the second half. Really not where I'd expect England to be given Italy, not really considered as competitive as England, were only up 17-0 against Canada at half time.

[Bombadil]

Italy have thumped Canada 48-7 and England are currently holding the USA scoreless, but not that far ahead. England are up only 19-0 at the beginning of the second half. Really not where I'd expect England to be given Italy, not really considered as competitive as England, were only up 17-0 against Canada at half time.

I'm not sure any of the matches so far, other than NZ - SA and shortly Wales - AUS give us any indication of key challenger status.

My guess is SA are weaker than thought and I'm curious as to Wales and France's actual strength. Mainly I think NZ win unless a team like Wales or France are stronger than one expects.

[Costa Fierro]

Italy have thumped Canada 48-7 and England are currently holding the USA scoreless, but not that far ahead. England are up only 19-0 at the beginning of the second half. Really not where I'd expect England to be given Italy, not really considered as competitive as England, were only up 17-0 against Canada at half time.

I'm not sure any of the matches so far, other than NZ - SA and shortly Wales - AUS give us any indication of key challenger status.

My guess is SA are weaker than thought and I'm curious as to Wales and France's actual strength. Mainly I think NZ win unless a team like Wales or France are stronger than one expects.

I'd wager on Ireland being a serious threat.

[Wopruthien]

Italy have thumped Canada 48-7 and England are currently holding the USA scoreless, but not that far ahead. England are up only 19-0 at the beginning of the second half. Really not where I'd expect England to be given Italy, not really considered as competitive as England, were only up 17-0 against Canada at half time.

I'm not sure any of the matches so far, other than NZ - SA and shortly Wales - AUS give us any indication of key challenger status.

My guess is SA are weaker than thought and I'm curious as to Wales and France's actual strength. Mainly I think NZ win unless a team like Wales or France are stronger than one expects.

I'd be very surprised if Wales beat Australia I must admit. I still think we are lacking in attacking, and defensively in (6 nations apart) we have been poor in the warm up matches and even against Georgia.

[Wopruthien]

Only the first half I know, and Ireland have got the class to push on I imagine, but wow what a performance from Japan. They look incredible.