California loses right to set emissions standards.

[Sangamonia]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

[San Lumen]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

They only care when its convenient

[Alta Californians]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1055811

So, Trump has axed California's ability to set their own emissions standards after they rolled out standards that required zero emissions.

Personally this is a good move. We should slowly cut any and every hold California has on this nation beyond the most basic of influences.

so if a state want's to protect the enviroment even if the federal government has denied climate change and seeks to kill the earth, they should be prevented from doing so?

[The Emerald Legion]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

[Alta Californians]

Both New York and California are actually majority Red or Conservative states geographically. But because both states have major population centers or for New York- NYC. Because it is winner take all, those big cities make those states Blue or Liberal by default immediately.

yes, but how is that a problem? Why should the 30% Rule over the other 70%?

[Neutraligon]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

Except for one thing, car companies can and do release two different cars for the to different standards. Plus, Cali is not the only state to follow those standards. Finally I thought that it was a good thing that companies did what would make them the most money, like selling cars that a large market share can buy.

[San Lumen]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

Why is that a bad thing? Its the largest state in the union. Why is protecting the environment a bad thing?

[Farnhamia]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1055811

So, Trump has axed California's ability to set their own emissions standards after they rolled out standards that required zero emissions.

Personally this is a good move. We should slowly cut any and every hold California has on this nation beyond the most basic of influences.

so if a state want's to protect the enviroment even if the federal government has denied climate change and seeks to kill the earth, they should be prevented from doing so?

The Clean Air Act of the 1970s said that the Federal government will set emission standards and that the individual states may not set standards that are better than those set by the Feds. California, which had a huge pollution and smog problem, was given an exemption. Trump is now rolling back the Federal standards set under Obama and is declaring that California can no loger have that exemption. You can look this stuff up, really.

[San Lumen]

Both New York and California are actually majority Red or Conservative states geographically. But because both states have major population centers or for New York- NYC. Because it is winner take all, those big cities make those states Blue or Liberal by default immediately.

yes, but how is that a problem? Why should the 30% Rule over the other 70%?

We have a thread for this. this is not it.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=472214&start=525

[Sangamonia]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

Corporations aren't the government though lol. If you're against states' rights, just admit it and spare us the trouble.

[Neutraligon]

so if a state want's to protect the enviroment even if the federal government has denied climate change and seeks to kill the earth, they should be prevented from doing so?

The Clean Air Act of the 1970s said that the Federal government will set emission standards and that the individual states may not set standards that are better than those set by the Feds. California, which had a huge pollution and smog problem, was given an exemption. Trump is now rolling back the Federal standards set under Obama and is declaring that California can no loger have that exemption. You can look this stuff up, really.

Trump actually does not have the right to do that, the EPA does, and only under a limited situation

[San Lumen]

so if a state want's to protect the enviroment even if the federal government has denied climate change and seeks to kill the earth, they should be prevented from doing so?

The Clean Air Act of the 1970s said that the Federal government will set emission standards and that the individual states may not set standards that are better than those set by the Feds. California, which had a huge pollution and smog problem, was given an exemption. Trump is now rolling back the Federal standards set under Obama and is declaring that California can no loger have that exemption. You can look this stuff up, really.

and very few in California want to go back to the smog filled skies of Los Angeles hence why they are taking them to court and will likely prevail.

Elections have consequences. This is why it matters who won statewide in California

[Farnhamia]

The Clean Air Act of the 1970s said that the Federal government will set emission standards and that the individual states may not set standards that are better than those set by the Feds. California, which had a huge pollution and smog problem, was given an exemption. Trump is now rolling back the Federal standards set under Obama and is declaring that California can no loger have that exemption. You can look this stuff up, really.

Trump actually does not have the right to do that, the EPA does, and only under a limited situation

True, the EPA has to approve the California standards. The president cannot do it by executive order, though he can order the EPA to simply deny all proposed standards from California. I don't know if they can order California to roll back previously approved standards.

[Fartsniffage]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

I can't wait for you to argue that Texas shouldn't use its size to decide what school textbooks say.

[San Lumen]

Trump actually does not have the right to do that, the EPA does, and only under a limited situation

True, the EPA has to approve the California standards. The president cannot do it by executive order, though he can order the EPA to simply deny all proposed standards from California. I don't know if they can order California to roll back previously approved standards.

Hence why the Attorney General is taking them to court

[Thermodolia]

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

I can't wait for you to argue that Texas shouldn't use its size to decide what school textbooks say.

They shouldn’t

[Diarcesia]

Whoa, so conservatives don't actually care about states' rights and it's just an argument trotted out for abortion, LGBT rights, etc? Who'd have thought?

...And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

I thought capitalism is good?

[Thermodolia]

...And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

I thought capitalism is good?

Only when it benefits your side apparently

[Neutraligon]

Trump actually does not have the right to do that, the EPA does, and only under a limited situation

True, the EPA has to approve the California standards. The president cannot do it by executive order, though he can order the EPA to simply deny all proposed standards from California. I don't know if they can order California to roll back previously approved standards.

Trump can order the EPA to do that, but the EPA is limited in why it refuses to grant the waver.

[The Emerald Legion]

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

Corporations aren't the government though lol. If you're against states' rights, just admit it and spare us the trouble.

So? It doesn't matter that they're not the government. The fact remains that California is using the weight of its market to try and fuck over the whole country. Fuck them.

It's almost like there's a difference with letting a state do what it wants in it's borders... And allowing a state to use it's large market share to dictate terms to corporations thereby effecting all the country.

Why is that a bad thing? Its the largest state in the union. Why is protecting the environment a bad thing?

Because allowing them to use corporations to subvert the rights of other states is wrong. The 'states rights' position is not allowing California to dictate terms to the rest of the USA.

[San Lumen]

True, the EPA has to approve the California standards. The president cannot do it by executive order, though he can order the EPA to simply deny all proposed standards from California. I don't know if they can order California to roll back previously approved standards.

Trump can order the EPA to do that, but the EPA is limited in why it refuses to grant the waver.

This administration has shown no regard for what the law says and the Republican senate looks the other way

[Farnhamia]

True, the EPA has to approve the California standards. The president cannot do it by executive order, though he can order the EPA to simply deny all proposed standards from California. I don't know if they can order California to roll back previously approved standards.

Trump can order the EPA to do that, but the EPA is limited in why it refuses to grant the waver.

"National security."

"What?"

"Take them away."

That's how it works in Farnhamia.

[San Lumen]

Corporations aren't the government though lol. If you're against states' rights, just admit it and spare us the trouble.

So? It doesn't matter that they're not the government. The fact remains that California is using the weight of its market to try and fuck over the whole country. Fuck them.

Why is that a bad thing? Its the largest state in the union. Why is protecting the environment a bad thing?

Because allowing them to use corporations to subvert the rights of other states is wrong. The 'states rights' position is not allowing California to dictate terms to the rest of the USA.

reducing emissions is screwing over the country? In what way?

[Diarcesia]

So? It doesn't matter that they're not the government. The fact remains that California is using the weight of its market to try and fuck over the whole country. Fuck them.

That's more of a function of capitalism. At worst it's monopolistic behavior.

[Neutraligon]

Corporations aren't the government though lol. If you're against states' rights, just admit it and spare us the trouble.

So? It doesn't matter that they're not the government. The fact remains that California is using the weight of its market to try and fuck over the whole country. Fuck them.

Why is that a bad thing? Its the largest state in the union. Why is protecting the environment a bad thing?

Because allowing them to use corporations to subvert the rights of other states is wrong. The 'states rights' position is not allowing California to dictate terms to the rest of the USA.

I will point out again that car companies can and do release two cars of the same make with the only difference being that 1 follows the standards and others do not.