Gay Person Punched, Pinned Down By Oklahoma Congregation

[-Ocelot-]

Can you name one that is pro-LGBT rights?

ELCA, PCUSA, Episcopals (well, most of them), etc.

However, retaining an orthodox view of sexuality does not equal violating a person's dignity in this way. I certainly would never support this kind of behavior, let alone participate in it.

What's their stance on the bible saying homosexuality is an abomination? Do they ignore that part? Major branches of Christianity are very critical of the LGBT and they never miss a chance to point out it's the bible condemning it.

[Thermodolia]

Don’t really give a shit.

And yet another reason why you wouldn't be in power. Or be very successful.

Says you. Changing how things are run isn’t banned or illegal. Don’t know why you junk that

The law exists for a reason, people expect people to abide by it. It's how society works, you can't always get what you want. And to attempt to force your way against the law, against the expectations of society, is tyranny.

And I think that reason is bullshit and needs to be changed. Though I’m not exactly sure why you think that telling an authoritarian that something is tyranny.

[Crockerland]

Don’t really give a shit.

And yet another reason why you wouldn't be in power. Or be very successful.

The law exists for a reason, people expect people to abide by it. It's how society works, you can't always get what you want. And to attempt to force your way against the law, against the expectations of society, is tyranny.

Free my boy Graham Capill, victim of tyranny

[San Lumen]

And yet another reason why you wouldn't be in power. Or be very successful.

Says you. Changing how things are run isn’t banned or illegal. Don’t know why you junk that

The law exists for a reason, people expect people to abide by it. It's how society works, you can't always get what you want. And to attempt to force your way against the law, against the expectations of society, is tyranny.

And I think that reason is bullshit and needs to be changed. Though I’m not exactly sure why you think that telling an authoritarian that something is tyranny.

The law exists for a reason. You dont just get to bend it or ignore it because its inconvenient or doesnt suit your ideology or narrative.

Should we just lock these people up with no trial by jury or right to consul either?

[Ethel mermania]

So far one person attributes this to Christianity as a whole rather than a specific church, and nobody has asked if there's any problems with Christian teachings.

And there would certainly be a lot more people patrolling the thread suspiciously looking for subtle signs of phobia in the chorus of condemnations if it happened in a mosque.

This is all fascinating, but can we skip to the grand revelation you're seeking to get out of this hypothetical, and reveal why shoehorning Islam into a conflict between a church and a gay individual was necessary?

Because we must always be wary of oppressing muslims even when there are no muslims to be oppressed.

[Gormwood]

And there would certainly be a lot more people patrolling the thread suspiciously looking for subtle signs of phobia in the chorus of condemnations if it happened in a mosque.

This is all fascinating, but can we skip to the grand revelation you're seeking to get out of this hypothetical, and reveal why shoehorning Islam into a conflict between a church and a gay individual was necessary?

Because we must always be wary of oppressing muslims even when there are no muslims to be oppressed.

Or pointing out that most people are not attributing this incident to Christianity as a whole or turning the thread into a soapbox on how Christianity is incompatible with the West. Double standards.

[The of Korea]

Because we must always be wary of oppressing muslims even when there are no muslims to be oppressed.

Or pointing out that most people are not attributing this incident to Christianity as a whole or turning the thread into a soapbox on how Christianity is incompatible with the West. Double standards.

both Christianity and Islam have issues with fundamentalism/extremism, though Islam seems to have a bigger problem with it.

[Proctopeo]

Because we must always be wary of oppressing muslims even when there are no muslims to be oppressed.

Or pointing out that most people are not attributing this incident to Christianity as a whole or turning the thread into a soapbox on how Christianity is incompatible with the West. Double standards.

It seems like you care more about Muslims who aren't involved than you are about a gay person who was. Why is that?

Anyway, terrible thing, persecute those responsible, don't shut down the church itself (it might die due to the shame/controversy, no need for Big Brother to get involved in it)

[Ethel mermania]

Because we must always be wary of oppressing muslims even when there are no muslims to be oppressed.

Or pointing out that most people are not attributing this incident to Christianity as a whole or turning the thread into a soapbox on how Christianity is incompatible with the West. Double standards.

I think you are getting that in this thread. Granted Christian's are not the ones saying christianity is incompatible with western thought, but that doesnt mean these comments are not being made.

[Thermodolia]

Says you. Changing how things are run isn’t banned or illegal. Don’t know why you junk that


And I think that reason is bullshit and needs to be changed. Though I’m not exactly sure why you think that telling an authoritarian that something is tyranny.

The law exists for a reason. You dont just get to bend it or ignore it because its inconvenient or doesnt suit your ideology or narrative.

Laws can and should be changed. I really don’t understand how I can make my self any clearer. I think the reason it exists is dumb

Should we just lock these people up with no trial by jury or right to consul either?

Yes

[San Lumen]

The law exists for a reason. You dont just get to bend it or ignore it because its inconvenient or doesnt suit your ideology or narrative.

Laws can and should be changed. I really don’t understand how I can make my self any clearer. I think the reason it exists is dumb

Should we just lock these people up with no trial by jury or right to consul either?

Yes

Ok then elect people who will change them but prosecutors such as the District Attorney and judges have to follow the law as written. They can't just set it aside because its annoying or they disagree.

No matter what your crime is you have a right to consul and a fair trial. If you committed a crime would you be ok with being locked up without an attorney or trial?

[Thermodolia]

Laws can and should be changed. I really don’t understand how I can make my self any clearer. I think the reason it exists is dumb


Yes

Ok then elect people who will change them

Get a new catchphrase

but prosecutors such as the District Attorney and judges have to follow the law as written. They can't just set it aside because its annoying or they disagree.

We have a common law system a judge can definitely rule against a law.

No matter what your crime is you have a right to consul and a fair trial. If you committed a crime would you be ok with being locked up without an attorney or trial?

Depends on what I did. Nazis, religious extremists, and others should definitely be locked up indefinitely

[San Lumen]

Ok then elect people who will change them

Get a new catchphrase

but prosecutors such as the District Attorney and judges have to follow the law as written. They can't just set it aside because its annoying or they disagree.

We have a common law system a judge can definitely rule against a law.

No matter what your crime is you have a right to consul and a fair trial. If you committed a crime would you be ok with being locked up without an attorney or trial?

Depends on what I did. Nazis, religious extremists, and others should definitely be locked up indefinitely

How else are you going to get the change you want?

In a criminal trial a juge or DA can't rule a law unconstitutional. That;'s not how the system works.

Again its a good thing your not in charge.

[Crockerland]

ELCA, PCUSA, Episcopals (well, most of them), etc.

However, retaining an orthodox view of sexuality does not equal violating a person's dignity in this way. I certainly would never support this kind of behavior, let alone participate in it.

What's their stance on the bible saying homosexuality is an abomination? Do they ignore that part?

That would be something to ask your local Episcopal minister. Though the Bible doesn't actually say being gay is an abomination, you would have to take verses wildly out of their linguistic, historical, and textual context to come to that conclusion, unless you mean homosexual rapists (as in Sodom and Gomorrah) or the widespread male-male shrine prostitution common among the Canaanites (as in Leviticus 20:13 or Deuteronomy 23:17-19).

Laws can and should be changed. I really don’t understand how I can make my self any clearer. I think the reason it exists is dumb

Should we just lock these people up with no trial by jury or right to consul either?

Yes

[Thermodolia]

Get a new catchphrase


We have a common law system a judge can definitely rule against a law.


Depends on what I did. Nazis, religious extremists, and others should definitely be locked up indefinitely

How else are you going to get the change you want?

I’ve already told you. The fact that you cannot remember it isn’t my problem.

In a criminal trial a juge or DA can't rule a law unconstitutional. That;'s not how the system works.

A judge has a wide ability to rule on the law. They can most definitely ignore parts of it as much as they want.

Again its a good thing your not in charge.

Well at least I’d ban Nazis from running for office and keep religious extremists from abusing minorities. Sounds better than the hell hole you’d have us living in

[San Lumen]

How else are you going to get the change you want?

I’ve already told you. The fact that you cannot remember it isn’t my problem.

In a criminal trial a juge or DA can't rule a law unconstitutional. That;'s not how the system works.

A judge has a wide ability to rule on the law. They can most definitely ignore parts of it as much as they want.

Again its a good thing your not in charge.

Well at least I’d ban Nazis from running for office and keep religious extremists from abusing minorities. Sounds better than the hell hole you’d have us living in

A revolution? Go start it then.

Yeah but they can;'t just set aside things they find inconvenient or disagree with in a criminal trial. No matter what you did your entitled to a speedy and fair trial.

If you want to continue the discussion about certain people running for office we can do it the election thread.

[Cekoviu]

That's horrific. I'm not going to say that the church should be shut down, but the perpetrators and accomplices should absolutely be prosecuted.

[Cekoviu]

ELCA, PCUSA, Episcopals (well, most of them), etc.

However, retaining an orthodox view of sexuality does not equal violating a person's dignity in this way. I certainly would never support this kind of behavior, let alone participate in it.

What's their stance on the bible saying homosexuality is an abomination? Do they ignore that part? Major branches of Christianity are very critical of the LGBT and they never miss a chance to point out it's the bible condemning it.

Yes. Not much of a shock, but Christians ignore much of the Bible.

[Salus Maior]

And yet another reason why you wouldn't be in power. Or be very successful.

The law exists for a reason, people expect people to abide by it. It's how society works, you can't always get what you want. And to attempt to force your way against the law, against the expectations of society, is tyranny.

Free my boy Graham Capill, victim of tyranny

I didn't know who that guy was until I just googled him, but considering he's convicted of sex crimes I would say let's not do that.

[Salus Maior]

ELCA, PCUSA, Episcopals (well, most of them), etc.

However, retaining an orthodox view of sexuality does not equal violating a person's dignity in this way. I certainly would never support this kind of behavior, let alone participate in it.

What's their stance on the bible saying homosexuality is an abomination? Do they ignore that part? Major branches of Christianity are very critical of the LGBT and they never miss a chance to point out it's the bible condemning it.

I don't know. If you find one you can ask them.

[San Lumen]

What's their stance on the bible saying homosexuality is an abomination? Do they ignore that part? Major branches of Christianity are very critical of the LGBT and they never miss a chance to point out it's the bible condemning it.

Yes. Not much of a shock, but Christians ignore much of the Bible.

I always direct people to the famous scene from The West Wing.

[Salus Maior]

And yet another reason why you wouldn't be in power. Or be very successful.

Says you. Changing how things are run isn’t banned or illegal. Don’t know why you junk that

The law exists for a reason, people expect people to abide by it. It's how society works, you can't always get what you want. And to attempt to force your way against the law, against the expectations of society, is tyranny.

And I think that reason is bullshit and needs to be changed. Though I’m not exactly sure why you think that telling an authoritarian that something is tyranny.

I'm not saying that changing the law is illegal or impossible, but nobody wants a ruthlessly authoritarian society (aside from a few people who just want their views to be accepted without question, like you).

And no, it's not bullshit to not want a government of tyranny that abolishes their promised rights. And you saying "I don't care" doesn't change that, it just shows that your method of politics is callous, uncompromising, and generally unlikable.

[Geneviev]

This is the Christianity I know and hate.

This is the Christianity I hate, too.

[Salus Maior]

This is the Christianity I know and hate.

This is the Christianity I hate, too.

Well, I'm glad we all established that we don't like it.

[Geneviev]

This is the Christianity I hate, too.

Well, I'm glad we all established that we don't like it.

I think everyone agrees on that.