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Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Your thoughts on pistol braces? (See top of OP for information)

Ban modern sporting rifles
114
15%
Pistol braces should be outlawed and current restrictions on SBRs remain in place
86
11%
Pistol braces should be outlawed but current restrictions on SBRs should be removed
30
4%
Pistol braces should be allowed and current restrictions on SBRs should remain
102
13%
Pistol braces should be allowed but current restrictions on SBRs should be removed
454
58%
 
Total votes : 786

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Grinning Dragon
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Posts: 10403
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:30 am

Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.

*Stasi intensifies*

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The Two Jerseys
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Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:32 am

Thomasi wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I bet you think the Gun Trace Task Force were the good guys...


It doesn't need to be a task force, traffic cops can do it.

If the point was any more over your head it would have "Boeing" written on the side.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
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Thomasi
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Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Thomasi » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:42 am

Grinning Dragon wrote:
Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.

*Stasi intensifies*


Supreme court allows pretextual stops so why not, They can choose to stop owning a gun and stop being a state sanctioned target.

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72260
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:45 am

Thomasi wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:*Stasi intensifies*


Supreme court allows pretextual stops so why not, They can choose to stop owning a gun and stop being a state sanctioned target.

I'm glad I live in a state where owning a gun would actually result in fewer stops in such an eventuality, because that's the way it is here.

Remember: every discretionary bad behavior can be used against you
Last edited by Galloism on Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Grinning Dragon
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Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:45 am

Thomasi wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:*Stasi intensifies*


Supreme court allows pretextual stops so why not, They can choose to stop owning a gun and stop being a state sanctioned target.

Not a big fan of terry stops, screams "Minority Report".
Cops could just also stop being fucking cunts and respect that a person has enumerated rights and let the person be on their way unmolested.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:49 am

Amusing that our liberal friend doesn't see how police would use this system to harass and kill even more black people lol
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American Legionaries
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Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:50 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Imperium of Texas wrote:The founding fathers intended for me to own a buckshot cannon in my house you cannot take it away from me ye oppressive red coat lovers!


If one could afford to buy, maintain, man and equip them, even Ballistic missile nuclear subs qualify as "arms".

Here is my ONLY compromise on the Second Amendment: I am willing to limit the rights to keep and bear arms to only those arms that can be carried and used by one person and be precisely targeted to one person.


TIL Jim is basically Mike Bloomberg...

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American Legionaries
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:52 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Amusing that our liberal friend doesn't see how police would use this system to harass and kill even more black people lol


>Thomasi
>Liberal

Dude's just a wannabe cop who's mad that the people he wants to hurt have a constitution as far as I can tell.

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Big Jim P
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Ex-Nation

Postby Big Jim P » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:05 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Thomasi wrote:
It doesn't need to be a task force, traffic cops can do it.

If the point was any more over your head it would have "Boeing" written on the side.


More like "Apollo"
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The Two Jerseys
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Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:28 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Amusing that our liberal friend doesn't see how police would use this system to harass and kill even more black people lol

He sees, he just wants to be a Baltimore cop.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

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Thomasi
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Posts: 918
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Thomasi » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:31 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Amusing that our liberal friend doesn't see how police would use this system to harass and kill even more black people lol

He sees, he just wants to be a Baltimore cop.

Nah I'm looking towards state troopers.

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American Legionaries
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Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:50 am

Thomasi wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:He sees, he just wants to be a Baltimore cop.

Nah I'm looking towards state troopers.


Almost as bad.

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76345
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:55 am

Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.

Well they can’t pull us all over. And besides if we all removed our plates than they won’t know whose who
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Thermodolia
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Posts: 76345
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:58 am

American Legionaries wrote:
Thomasi wrote:Nah I'm looking towards state troopers.


Almost as bad.

Especially in NJ, uniform design looks like it’s out of 1930s Germany
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Informed Consent
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Posts: 456
Founded: Apr 13, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Informed Consent » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:44 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Imperium of Texas wrote:The founding fathers intended for me to own a buckshot cannon in my house you cannot take it away from me ye oppressive red coat lovers!


If one could afford to buy, maintain, man and equip them, even Ballistic missile nuclear subs qualify as "arms".

Here is my ONLY compromise on the Second Amendment: I am willing to limit the rights to keep and bear arms to only those arms that can be carried and used by one person and be precisely targeted to one person.

My only problem with this is that the primary purpose of the second amendment is to give the people a vehicle of protection from a belligerent government, with the other protections we draw being ancillary to that, so limiting the scope of civilian arms violates that spirit for me.

Even though my favorite theme park is a privately run tank range, I am not real big on big on irresponsible neighbors roving around in after market Apaches and Abrams, or Los Angeles class attack subs.
So I am all about licensing and mandatory instruction for equipment that reaches a certain obvious scale of "this is definitely military grade ordinance with only battlefield application", but excluding the basic field scale items entirely seems nefarious to me.
Call me quaint.
Last edited by Informed Consent on Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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they do not thereafter believe in nothing.
They then become capable of believing in anything."

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Gun Manufacturers
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Founded: Jan 23, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gun Manufacturers » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:13 pm

Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.


Wow, that's even more idiotic than the last idea you had. You went from suggesting an unconstitutional process to obtain a NY carry permit, to suggesting a dangerous and unconstitutional process for the police harassing gun owners.
Gun control is like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.

Any accident you can walk away from is one I can laugh at.

DOJ's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment: http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/fi ... -p0126.pdf

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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:28 pm

Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.

And then people wonder why Americans dont like cops.

Frankly we need more Battle of Athens like scenrios if people like you are any indication of the state of American police.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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The Two Jerseys
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Posts: 19624
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:32 pm

Thomasi wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:He sees, he just wants to be a Baltimore cop.

Nah I'm looking towards state troopers.

They wouldn't have you, they're not corrupt.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

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The Two Jerseys
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Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:34 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Almost as bad.

Especially in NJ, uniform design looks like it’s out of 1930s Germany

Col. Schwarzkopf literally copied Reichwehr uniforms.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

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Adamede
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:35 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Almost as bad.

Especially in NJ, uniform design looks like it’s out of 1930s Germany

Rhode Island's ST uniforms are also pretty fashy.
22yo male. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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Grinning Dragon
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Posts: 10403
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:44 pm

Gun Manufacturers wrote:
Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.


Wow, that's even more idiotic than the last idea you had. You went from suggesting an unconstitutional process to obtain a NY carry permit, to suggesting a dangerous and unconstitutional process for the police harassing gun owners.

Well of course he did 'cause duh, only police are capable of responsibly handling firearms, 'cause you know the badge and uniform, automatically adds a +100 boost to firearm professionalism and knowledge, the average Joe is just too dumb to have rights and boom sticks and must be kept under heel like good little chattel. :p
Last edited by Grinning Dragon on Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hurtful Thoughts
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Posts: 7213
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:59 pm

Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.

Yeah, then the police get even more corrupt once they no longer fear overstepping their own jackboots.

Seriously, where did you learn your trade?
Factbook and general referance thread.
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Reverend Norv
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Founded: Jun 20, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:13 pm

Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.


This is, frankly, one key reason gun control has stalled in this country. Much of this country owns guns - as I do. Many of those same Americans also support additional restrictions on gun ownership - again, as I do. Second Amendment absolutists are a minority not only of Americans, but also of American gun owners.

But the loudest voices on the gun control side so often tend to be guys like you and Lumen, guys who know next to nothing about firearms and even less about the law, and the result is that you radicalize everyone on the other side - because you are the sort of men who sound like you'll take a mile if gun owners give an inch. Because you talk about having police harass people - not because they might be dangerous, not because they failed a background check, but strictly because they own a gun. Don't you realize that when you talk like this, all you are confirming for folks like Telconi is that he should never compromise - that all talk of common sense or moderation is just a smokescreen for authoritarianism - and that more moderate and credible gun control proponents can't be trusted either, because they are camouflage for your extremism?

You are poisoning the well. You are undermining the very objectives in which you claim to believe. Think about your values, and ask yourself whether ideas like this actually advance them.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53355
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:16 pm

Reverend Norv wrote:
Thomasi wrote:Time for may issue states to put gun registration status on license plates and have police systematically pull over guns owners daily for even the smallest of infractions on the road. Ticket them and make their lives hell until they turn in their guns and license to the local police.


This is, frankly, one key reason gun control has stalled in this country. Much of this country owns guns - as I do. Many of those same Americans also support additional restrictions on gun ownership - again, as I do. Second Amendment absolutists are a minority not only of Americans, but also of American gun owners.

But the loudest voices on the gun control side so often tend to be guys like you and Lumen, guys who know next to nothing about firearms and even less about the law, and the result is that you radicalize everyone on the other side - because you are the sort of men who sound like you'll take a mile if gun owners give an inch. Because you talk about having police harass people - not because they might be dangerous, not because they failed a background check, but strictly because they own a gun. Don't you realize that when you talk like this, all you are confirming for folks like Telconi is that he should never compromise - that all talk of common sense or moderation is just a smokescreen for authoritarianism - and that more moderate and credible gun control proponents can't be trusted either, because they are camouflage for your extremism?

You are poisoning the well. You are undermining the very objectives in which you claim to believe. Think about your values, and ask yourself whether ideas like this actually advance them.


Tbf Telconi's refusal to compromise isn't based on random forum posts, it's based on the actual history of the debate. The gun rights side has given up a whole lot of inches since the 1930's and we've gotten fuck all for it and the other side still keeps demanding more. At a certain point it was inevitable that people would draw the line and say no more.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Hurtful Thoughts
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7213
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:14 pm

Thomasi wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:*Stasi intensifies*


Supreme court allows pretextual stops so why not, They can choose to stop owning a gun and stop being a state sanctioned target.

And if guns are a part of their religion, then that's a triple-whammy constitutional violation.

Also, stop conflating the federal circuit courts with the supreme court. There are other federal circuits that strongly disagree with this. And even suggesting such actions in those jurisdictions is enough to get blackballed.

When you get around to your firearms-training, there are 2 lessons:

1. Don't be a dumbass.
2. Don't be a dick.

Kinda failing on both.

This is why some states make fun of the law enforcement agencies in other states.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....

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