Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

[Techocracy101010]

Why do people want to be able to have large weapons of war like 50cal machine guns, grenade launchers and the like.
You loose no ability to self defense by not being able to be better equipped than the millitary.

I gain the right to bargain collectively by being better armed then the Pinkertons.

[Sordhau]

What do people think would be ways to reduce the violence and gun deaths and mass shootings without restricting guns ?

Removing the stress factors in society that contribute to the degradation of one's mental health is probably the best long-term solution possible.

Stop overworking people, stop underpaying people, remove the stigma surrounding mental health treatment, make sure people have access to their every day needs without arbitrary restrictions and obstacles, reduce pointless bureaucracy that inhibits social mobility, invest in institutions, infrastructure, policies, and programs that actually provide help for people in need, ensure universal access to high quality education and healthcare, etc. Basically make society livable for ordinary, every-day people and criminal violence will decrease exponentially. It is our callous, self-centered, individualist society that leads to these incidents of mass violence. When society teaches people to only care for themselves and then leaves them to die when they need help the most it creates an environment that breeds bitter, aggressive, and psychopathic behaviors as it propagates misanthropy and sociopathy. It happens in the home setting, at the workplace, at school, in general public, and even in politics.

Our society is constructed along the lines of the simple mentality of "Dog Eat Dog", "Kill or Be Killed", "Every Man for Himself", or my personal favorite "Fuck You, I Got Mine" and as a result this creates friction and conflict where it doesn't need to exist. High quality of life and a generally more empathic and compassionate society will do more to stem the tide of mass violence than any amount of gun control.

[Gun Manufacturers]

What do people think would be ways to reduce the violence and gun deaths and mass shootings without restricting guns ?

If there is no other way, to what extent would you accept a limited restriction to save lives?

Personally, I think the biggest problem is that is that handguns in particular are so accessible. A large share of guns deaths are suicides, and it’s easier to conceal a small gun than a large gun.
(I also think a limitation of ammo ownership can stop mass shootings)


I believe in as much freedom as possible, but at what cost?
Is it really worth it?
Can there be another way?

What amount of ammunition would you set as a limit? How would you enforce it?

[Dylar]

What do people think would be ways to reduce the violence and gun deaths and mass shootings without restricting guns ?

Removing the stress factors in society that contribute to the degradation of one's mental health is probably the best long-term solution possible.

Stop overworking people, stop underpaying people, remove the stigma surrounding mental health treatment, make sure people have access to their every day needs without arbitrary restrictions and obstacles, reduce pointless bureaucracy that inhibits social mobility, invest in institutions, infrastructure, policies, and programs that actually provide help for people in need, ensure universal access to high quality education and healthcare, etc. Basically make society livable for ordinary, every-day people and criminal violence will decrease exponentially. It is our callous, self-centered, individualist society that leads to these incidents of mass violence. When society teaches people to only care for themselves and then leaves them to die when they need help the most it creates an environment that breeds bitter, aggressive, and psychopathic behaviors as it propagates misanthropy and sociopathy. It happens in the home setting, at the workplace, at school, in general public, and even in politics.

Our society is constructed along the lines of the simple mentality of "Dog Eat Dog", "Kill or Be Killed", "Every Man for Himself", or my personal favorite "Fuck You, I Got Mine" and as a result this creates friction and conflict where it doesn't need to exist. High quality of life and a generally more empathic and compassionate society will do more to stem the tide of mass violence than any amount of gun control.

but sordhau that's communism

[Sordhau]

Removing the stress factors in society that contribute to the degradation of one's mental health is probably the best long-term solution possible.

Stop overworking people, stop underpaying people, remove the stigma surrounding mental health treatment, make sure people have access to their every day needs without arbitrary restrictions and obstacles, reduce pointless bureaucracy that inhibits social mobility, invest in institutions, infrastructure, policies, and programs that actually provide help for people in need, ensure universal access to high quality education and healthcare, etc. Basically make society livable for ordinary, every-day people and criminal violence will decrease exponentially. It is our callous, self-centered, individualist society that leads to these incidents of mass violence. When society teaches people to only care for themselves and then leaves them to die when they need help the most it creates an environment that breeds bitter, aggressive, and psychopathic behaviors as it propagates misanthropy and sociopathy. It happens in the home setting, at the workplace, at school, in general public, and even in politics.

Our society is constructed along the lines of the simple mentality of "Dog Eat Dog", "Kill or Be Killed", "Every Man for Himself", or my personal favorite "Fuck You, I Got Mine" and as a result this creates friction and conflict where it doesn't need to exist. High quality of life and a generally more empathic and compassionate society will do more to stem the tide of mass violence than any amount of gun control.

but sordhau that's communism

:gigachad:

[Grinning Dragon]

What do people think would be ways to reduce the violence and gun deaths and mass shootings without restricting guns ?

If there is no other way, to what extent would you accept a limited restriction to save lives?

Personally, I think the biggest problem is that is that handguns in particular are so accessible. A large share of guns deaths are suicides, and it’s easier to conceal a small gun than a large gun.
(I also think a limitation of ammo ownership can stop mass shootings)


I believe in as much freedom as possible, but at what cost?
Is it really worth it?
Can there be another way?

What amount of ammunition would you set as a limit? How would you enforce it?

Well if they had it their way. 1 rd. and it would have to be placed in a lock box, in a vault, inside an active volcano.
Enforcement-wise, "Hi we are from the govt and we are here to help"
So I guess, enumerated right infringements to achieve their wondrous utopia of authoritarianism.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

What do people think would be ways to reduce the violence and gun deaths and mass shootings without restricting guns ?

Removing the stress factors in society that contribute to the degradation of one's mental health is probably the best long-term solution possible.

Stop overworking people, stop underpaying people, remove the stigma surrounding mental health treatment, make sure people have access to their every day needs without arbitrary restrictions and obstacles, reduce pointless bureaucracy that inhibits social mobility, invest in institutions, infrastructure, policies, and programs that actually provide help for people in need, ensure universal access to high quality education and healthcare, etc. Basically make society livable for ordinary, every-day people and criminal violence will decrease exponentially. It is our callous, self-centered, individualist society that leads to these incidents of mass violence. When society teaches people to only care for themselves and then leaves them to die when they need help the most it creates an environment that breeds bitter, aggressive, and psychopathic behaviors as it propagates misanthropy and sociopathy. It happens in the home setting, at the workplace, at school, in general public, and even in politics.

Our society is constructed along the lines of the simple mentality of "Dog Eat Dog", "Kill or Be Killed", "Every Man for Himself", or my personal favorite "Fuck You, I Got Mine" and as a result this creates friction and conflict where it doesn't need to exist. High quality of life and a generally more empathic and compassionate society will do more to stem the tide of mass violence than any amount of gun control.

Thank Conservatives and Reactionaries for keeping it and up and going... (plus perpetrating it further and further!)

[Haganham]

but sordhau that's communism

No it's not. It's called not being a twat.

[Diopolis]

What do people think would be ways to reduce the violence and gun deaths and mass shootings without restricting guns ?

Mass shooters should be subjected to damnatio memorae.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

but sordhau that's communism

No it's not. It's called not being a twat.

Mass shootings could be regarded as being a twat for being twatted upon.

Twattery only begets more twattery.

[Gun Manufacturers]

What amount of ammunition would you set as a limit? How would you enforce it?

Well if they had it their way. 1 rd. and it would have to be placed in a lock box, in a vault, inside an active volcano.
Enforcement-wise, "Hi we are from the govt and we are here to help"
So I guess, enumerated right infringements to achieve their wondrous utopia of authoritarianism.

I've actually said that while delivering people's mail and parcels.

As to the ammo limit: I seriously doubt its Constitutionality, I was just curious how far FJR would push the idea.

[Dylar]

but sordhau that's communism

No it's not. It's called not being a twat.

(it was a joke)

[Grinning Dragon]

Not really all that big a surprise, seeing as how the PLCAA in play along with mexico really doesn't have a leg to stand on as it isn't American firearm manufacturers fault for the violence in mexico. Said violence is laid bare at the feet of the mexican govt.
Federal Court Dismisses $10B Mexican Lawsuit Against US Firearms Manufacturers

From the AP.

MEXICO CITY (AP) — A U.S. federal judge on Friday dismissed a lawsuit brought by the Mexican government against U.S. gun manufacturers arguing their commercial practices has led to bloodshed in Mexico.

Judge F. Dennis Saylor in Boston ruled Mexico’s claims did not overcome the broad protection provided to gun manufacturers by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act passed in 2005.

The law shields gun manufacturers from damages “resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse” of a firearm.

“While the court has considerable sympathy for the people of Mexico, and none whatsoever for those who traffic guns to Mexican criminal organizations, it is duty-bound to follow the law,” Saylor wrote.

Mexico’s Foreign Affairs Ministry said it would appeal the decision “and continue insisting that the sale of guns be responsible, transparent and accountable, and that the negligent way in which they are sold in the United States facilitates criminals’ access to them.”

Mexico was seeking at least $10 billion in compensation, but legal experts had viewed the lawsuit as a long shot.

The Mexican government argued that the companies know their practices contribute to the trafficking of guns into Mexico and facilitate it. Mexico wants compensation for the havoc the guns have wrought on its people.

O' Canada. 3 providences in canada isn't going to go along with lil trudeau's gun grab.
Canadians Rise Up, Refuse to Comply with Government’s Gun-Surrender Order

The people of Canada are rising up against liberal Prime Minister Coward, Justin Trudeau, by refusing to comply with the federal government’s mandatory gun-surrender order.

As the Canadian government orders authorities to enforce a mandatory gun Buyback (Confiscation) program of “assault-style” firearms, officials from three of Canada’s provinces have declared that they refuse to use police resources for the order.

So far this week, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have informed officials with the Canadian federal government that they will not comply with any such scheme, National Post reported.

[Haganham]

Buy military surplus from Soviets
Sell weapons to cartels under the table
Get murdered by cartels
"fucking Americans"

[Grinning Dragon]

Buy military surplus from Soviets
Sell weapons to cartels under the table
Get murdered by cartels
"fucking Americans"

Pretty much, considering the vast majority of arms comes from mexico's southern border and mexico's own military sells arms to the cartels.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Not really all that big a surprise, seeing as how the PLCAA in play along with mexico really doesn't have a leg to stand on as it isn't American firearm manufacturers fault for the violence in mexico. Said violence is laid bare at the feet of the mexican govt.
Federal Court Dismisses $10B Mexican Lawsuit Against US Firearms Manufacturers

From the AP.

MEXICO CITY (AP) — A U.S. federal judge on Friday dismissed a lawsuit brought by the Mexican government against U.S. gun manufacturers arguing their commercial practices has led to bloodshed in Mexico.

Judge F. Dennis Saylor in Boston ruled Mexico’s claims did not overcome the broad protection provided to gun manufacturers by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act passed in 2005.

The law shields gun manufacturers from damages “resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse” of a firearm.

“While the court has considerable sympathy for the people of Mexico, and none whatsoever for those who traffic guns to Mexican criminal organizations, it is duty-bound to follow the law,” Saylor wrote.

Mexico’s Foreign Affairs Ministry said it would appeal the decision “and continue insisting that the sale of guns be responsible, transparent and accountable, and that the negligent way in which they are sold in the United States facilitates criminals’ access to them.”

Mexico was seeking at least $10 billion in compensation, but legal experts had viewed the lawsuit as a long shot.

The Mexican government argued that the companies know their practices contribute to the trafficking of guns into Mexico and facilitate it. Mexico wants compensation for the havoc the guns have wrought on its people.

O' Canada. 3 providences in canada isn't going to go along with lil trudeau's gun grab.
Canadians Rise Up, Refuse to Comply with Government’s Gun-Surrender Order

The people of Canada are rising up against liberal Prime Minister Coward, Justin Trudeau, by refusing to comply with the federal government’s mandatory gun-surrender order.

As the Canadian government orders authorities to enforce a mandatory gun Buyback (Confiscation) program of “assault-style” firearms, officials from three of Canada’s provinces have declared that they refuse to use police resources for the order.

So far this week, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have informed officials with the Canadian federal government that they will not comply with any such scheme, National Post reported.

I'm glad the court told Mexico to pound sand. I AM surprised that it was a Massachusetts federal district judge, though.

[Sordhau]

Buy military surplus from Soviets
Sell weapons to cartels under the table
Get murdered by cartels
"fucking Americans"

Most of the guns in use by the Mexican Cartels actually do come in from over the border though. The Mexican Government is of course still wrong to point fingers at gun manufacturers. It's not like they're personally selling these weapons to them lmao. It's a very simple exchange: drugs into America, guns into Mexico. Both of which are done illegally and/or with the aid of the CIA who for some reason wants an unstable neighbor on our southern border.

[Grinning Dragon]

Buy military surplus from Soviets
Sell weapons to cartels under the table
Get murdered by cartels
"fucking Americans"

Most of the guns in use by the Mexican Cartels actually do come in from over the border though. The Mexican Government is of course still wrong to point fingers at gun manufacturers. It's not like they're personally selling these weapons to them lmao. It's a very simple exchange: drugs into America, guns into Mexico. Both of which are done illegally and/or with the aid of the CIA who for some reason wants an unstable neighbor on our southern border.

It's actually around 17% that comes from the US and that accounts for all firearms recovered by mexican authorities.

[Sordhau]

Most of the guns in use by the Mexican Cartels actually do come in from over the border though. The Mexican Government is of course still wrong to point fingers at gun manufacturers. It's not like they're personally selling these weapons to them lmao. It's a very simple exchange: drugs into America, guns into Mexico. Both of which are done illegally and/or with the aid of the CIA who for some reason wants an unstable neighbor on our southern border.

It's actually around 17% that comes from the US and that accounts for all firearms recovered by mexican authorities.

Manufactured in the US or delivered from the US? I could've swore it was much higher.

[Grinning Dragon]

It's actually around 17% that comes from the US and that accounts for all firearms recovered by mexican authorities.

Manufactured in the US or delivered from the US? I could've swore it was much higher.

The GAO bullshit 90% number?

[Sordhau]

Manufactured in the US or delivered from the US? I could've swore it was much higher.

The GAO bullshit 90% number?

90%? No, that sounds a bit ridiculous. I heard it was around 60-70%.

[Grinning Dragon]

The GAO bullshit 90% number?

90%? No, that sounds a bit ridiculous. I heard it was around 60-70%.

Recalling a stratfor article from a few years ago, from what I remember, say 30K firearms were seized from crims, and information pertaining to say 7200 was submitted to the batfe(arbf), of those 7200 only 4k could be traced. So what the anti gun dipshits is say 80 percent of that 7200 could be reliably known to have come from the US. So basically lying to make it worse that what it is.

[Sordhau]

90%? No, that sounds a bit ridiculous. I heard it was around 60-70%.

Recalling a stratfor article from a few years ago, from what I remember, say 30K firearms were seized from crims, and information pertaining to say 7200 was submitted to the batfe(arbf), of those 7200 only 4k could be traced. So what the anti gun dipshits is say 80 percent of that 7200 could be reliably known to have come from the US. So basically lying to make it worse that what it is.

I mean realistically it could have come from the US, though not necessarily *originated* from the US and obviously not sold by legitimate businesses. Plenty of gunrunners trying to get America's many many firearms out of the country under the radar I'm sure. Plus, y'know, the CIA doing what they do best: support terrorism.

[Grinning Dragon]

Recalling a stratfor article from a few years ago, from what I remember, say 30K firearms were seized from crims, and information pertaining to say 7200 was submitted to the batfe(arbf), of those 7200 only 4k could be traced. So what the anti gun dipshits is say 80 percent of that 7200 could be reliably known to have come from the US. So basically lying to make it worse that what it is.

I mean realistically it could have come from the US, though not necessarily *originated* from the US and obviously not sold by legitimate businesses. Plenty of gunrunners trying to get America's many many firearms out of the country under the radar I'm sure. Plus, y'know, the CIA doing what they do best: support terrorism.

I'm not denying that a small fraction of firearms get smuggled into mexico (fast and furious anyone?).
Argentina has Bersa, Brazil has Taurus, then there is of course the arms that are sold to south american govts / military branches either through the US, Russia, China, etc. So if those arms are getting into the hands of crims and cartels, thats hardly the fault of US firearm laws and the firearm manufacturers or russia, or china, etc.
Brazil has probably the largest underground armorer shops in south america that spits out copy popular firearms, anything from single shot to full auto, which IMO, would be a safe bet the same exists in mexico.

[Grinning Dragon]

Supreme Court Vacates Ruling Upholding Mass. Ban on Gun Purchases by Those Convicted of Gun Misdemeanors

Massachusetts effectively blocks anyone convicted of a non-violent misdemeanor involving a firearm from purchasing handguns. A recent First District Court of Appeals ruling upheld the prohibition in Morin v. Lyver. Today the supreme court vacated the ruling and remanded the case back to the district court and told them to try again, using the Bruen standard.

The First District Court of Appeals tried to weasel their way around the Bruen decision by using intermediate scrutiny when the precedent in Bruen clearly ended that practice. The First District’s ruling applied “logic” stating that while a person convicted of a gun-related misdemeanor can’t purchase a handgun, they can possess one if it’s left to them in a will. Therefore, as the court seemed to think, Massachusetts’ law wasn’t a ban on handgun ownership.

Uh huh.

The Supreme Court granted cert in the case, vacated the First District ruling, and returned it for reconsideration.

From the Epoch Times:

The Supreme Court reversed a federal appeals court decision on Oct. 3 that upheld one of Massachusetts’ tough gun laws, months after the high court expanded Second Amendment rights.

The Massachusetts law in question, the constitutionality of which is now in doubt, imposed a lifetime ban on purchasing handguns—but not possessing them—on anyone convicted of a non-violent misdemeanor that involved the possession or use of guns.

The high court remanded the case, Morin v. Lyver (court file 21-1160), to the U.S Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit “for further consideration in light of” the Supreme Court’s landmark June 23 decision in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen.

Massachusetts was previously added to Morin v. Lyver as an intervenor to defend the constitutionality of the state law.

The order was unsigned and no justices indicated they were dissenting from it. The justices did not explain why they granted the order.