Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

[Grinning Dragon]

Sure, never mind all the evidence that gun grabbers are the ones who have to cherrypick data and resort to emotional arguments to push their agenda because they don't have a leg to stand on otherwise...

Don’t use accusation in mirror... and try to rationalize mass killings, please don’t.

[American Legionaries]

Expecting violence to increase alongside, ain’t no one gonna fooled by the “self defense” argument.

Especially, since guns (and weapons) in general, are and always will be associated and attributed to violence and crime (rather it’s civilian or military).

---

“Facts and data” , since all sources listed in this thread (and the other one; thus far and for the most part, are either willful misinterpreted (confirmation bias and cherry picking) or outright biased (all the gun sites)!

Sure, never mind all the evidence that gun grabbers are the ones who have to cherrypick data and resort to emotional arguments to push their agenda because they don't have a leg to stand on otherwise...

There really is no point trying to talk to these people.

[The Two Jerseys]

Sure, never mind all the evidence that gun grabbers are the ones who have to cherrypick data and resort to emotional arguments to push their agenda because they don't have a leg to stand on otherwise...

Don’t use accusation in mirror... and try to rationalize mass killings, please don’t.

Like I said, nothing but lies and emotional arguments...

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

Don’t use accusation in mirror... and try to rationalize mass killings, please don’t.

Like I said, nothing but lies and emotional arguments...

”Triggering the libs? Am I right guys?”. Appeal to emotions (Special pleading and Kafkatrapping)

[Grinning Dragon]

Like I said, nothing but lies and emotional arguments...

”Triggering the libs? Am I right guys?”. Appeal to emotions (Special pleading and Kafkatrapping)

If going strictly by facts and data and dismissing emotive pleas is triggering, well that's a you problem.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

”Triggering the libs? Am I right guys?”. Appeal to emotions (Special pleading and Kafkatrapping)

If going strictly by facts and data and dismissing emotive pleas is triggering, well that's a you problem.

Sure... of only the “data” in question was credible & reliable...

[Grinning Dragon]

If going strictly by facts and data and dismissing emotive pleas is triggering, well that's a you problem.

Sure... of only the “data” in question was credible & reliable...

Then we are back to square one. You think the bullshit peddled by anti gun groups is factual, while actual factual figures along with text, history and tradition by another group is seen by you as suspect.

[Greater Cesnica]

... and try to rationalize mass killings, please don’t.

????????

If going strictly by facts and data and dismissing emotive pleas is triggering, well that's a you problem.

Sure... of only the “data” in question was credible & reliable...

Point out how precisely it is unreliable.

[Grinning Dragon]

... and try to rationalize mass killings, please don’t.

????????

Sure... of only the “data” in question was credible & reliable...

Point out how precisely it is unreliable.

He can't. I'm sure he's going by the "Well the media says this or that" and then goes on to use made up data sets from an anti gun org.

[American Legionaries]

... and try to rationalize mass killings, please don’t.

????????

Sure... of only the “data” in question was credible & reliable...

Point out how precisely it is unreliable.

Silly Canadian, it supports people's rights. Can't trust those people who support rights, they just want to trigger liberals.

[Greater Cesnica]

????????

Point out how precisely it is unreliable.

He can't. I'm sure he's going by the "Well the media says this or that" and then goes on to use made up data sets from an anti gun org.

Shit like this is why a background in stats should be essential for progressing into adulthood.

????????

Point out how precisely it is unreliable.

Silly Canadian, it supports people's rights. Can't trust those people who support rights, they just want to trigger liberals.

Human rights is when mass shootings, according to the grabbers.

[Grinning Dragon]

He can't. I'm sure he's going by the "Well the media says this or that" and then goes on to use made up data sets from an anti gun org.

Shit like this is why a background in stats should be essential for progressing into adulthood.

Silly Canadian, it supports people's rights. Can't trust those people who support rights, they just want to trigger liberals.

Human rights is when mass shootings, according to the grabbers.

Last year or the year before the RAND Corp and by no means a friend to firearm rights/owners, took to task the 10s of thousands of anti gun briefs, studies, etc., and concluded that 99% of them were bullshit and only about 1% of those where acceptable, then chastised the media for running with stories on the more outlandish data sets while ignoring the ones that were mostly acceptable. Then just a few months ago, a multi group of statisticians took the ones that the RAND Corp deemed acceptable and reran the data and each group kept coming up with different outcomes and could not achieve the stated original data output. That group came to the conclusion that those deemed acceptable by the RAND Corp failed due to data repeatability issues and therefore should be tossed as well as that data was made up or massaged to favor a certain outcome.

Then just last month, an anti gun group somehow got the CDC to pull their defensive firearm data, because they said such data being available is hurting the anti gun push narrative and making it difficult for state legislatures to pass gun control. Pretty pathetic that the only way anti gun groups can win is by eliminating data the counters their bullshit lies.

[Greater Cesnica]

Shit like this is why a background in stats should be essential for progressing into adulthood.

Human rights is when mass shootings, according to the grabbers.

Last year or the year before the RAND Corp and by no means a friend to firearm rights/owners, took to task the 10s of thousands of anti gun briefs, studies, etc., and concluded that 99% of them were bullshit and only about 1% of those where acceptable, then chastised the media for running with stories on the more outlandish data sets while ignoring the ones that were mostly acceptable. Then just a few months ago, a multi group of statisticians took the ones that the RAND Corp deemed acceptable and reran the data and each group kept coming up with different outcomes and could not achieve the stated original data output. That group came to the conclusion that those deemed acceptable by the RAND Corp failed due to data repeatability issues and therefore should be tossed as well as that data was made up or massaged to favor a certain outcome.

Then just last month, an anti gun group somehow got the CDC to pull their defensive firearm data, because they said such data being available is hurting the anti gun push narrative and making it difficult for state legislatures to pass gun control. Pretty pathetic that the only way anti gun groups can win is by eliminating data the counters their bullshit lies.

Public opinion is turning against the grabbers. After all, the largest demographic of new gun owners are women and ethnic minorities - the very people the anti-gunners desperately need on their side.

[Grinning Dragon]

Last year or the year before the RAND Corp and by no means a friend to firearm rights/owners, took to task the 10s of thousands of anti gun briefs, studies, etc., and concluded that 99% of them were bullshit and only about 1% of those where acceptable, then chastised the media for running with stories on the more outlandish data sets while ignoring the ones that were mostly acceptable. Then just a few months ago, a multi group of statisticians took the ones that the RAND Corp deemed acceptable and reran the data and each group kept coming up with different outcomes and could not achieve the stated original data output. That group came to the conclusion that those deemed acceptable by the RAND Corp failed due to data repeatability issues and therefore should be tossed as well as that data was made up or massaged to favor a certain outcome.

Then just last month, an anti gun group somehow got the CDC to pull their defensive firearm data, because they said such data being available is hurting the anti gun push narrative and making it difficult for state legislatures to pass gun control. Pretty pathetic that the only way anti gun groups can win is by eliminating data the counters their bullshit lies.

Public opinion is turning against the grabbers. After all, the largest demographic of new gun owners are women and ethnic minorities - the very people the anti-gunners desperately need on their side.

Well I can see why it would be turning against them, when you have so called "experts" like Col. Tucker who at the request of Cali AG Bonta to help save their unconstitutional awb. Behold this gem from the Colonel USMC Ret.

...both the AR-15 and the M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble upon impact...

I should note that all of the idiots Bonta has thrown together to argue in favor of saving the awb law, they are still arguing on an interests balancing, which got shot down in Bruen and instead must use, text, history and tradition. Guess old gun grabbin' habits are hard to kick.

[American Legionaries]

Public opinion is turning against the grabbers. After all, the largest demographic of new gun owners are women and ethnic minorities - the very people the anti-gunners desperately need on their side.

Well I can see why it would be turning against them, when you have so called "experts" like Col. Tucker who at the request of Cali AG Bonta to help save their unconstitutional awb. Behold this gem from the Colonel USMC Ret.

...both the AR-15 and the M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble upon impact...

The guy's just not good at keeping promises, my man.

[Techocracy101010]

Public opinion is turning against the grabbers. After all, the largest demographic of new gun owners are women and ethnic minorities - the very people the anti-gunners desperately need on their side.

Well I can see why it would be turning against them, when you have so called "experts" like Col. Tucker who at the request of Cali AG Bonta to help save their unconstitutional awb. Behold this gem from the Colonel USMC Ret.

...both the AR-15 and the M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble upon impact...

I should note that all of the idiots Bonta has thrown together to argue in favor of saving the awb law, they are still arguing on an interests balancing, which got shot down in Bruen and instead must use, text, history and tradition. Guess old gun grabbin' habits are hard to kick.

You missed the best parts about him training to use the ar for offense and a m9 for defense dude thinks you swap to a pistol in defense lol. Also claiming the ar 15 blows folk in half was hilarious dude is out to fantasy land

[The Two Jerseys]

Well I can see why it would be turning against them, when you have so called "experts" like Col. Tucker who at the request of Cali AG Bonta to help save their unconstitutional awb. Behold this gem from the Colonel USMC Ret.


I should note that all of the idiots Bonta has thrown together to argue in favor of saving the awb law, they are still arguing on an interests balancing, which got shot down in Bruen and instead must use, text, history and tradition. Guess old gun grabbin' habits are hard to kick.

You missed the best parts about him training to use the ar for offense and a m9 for defense dude thinks you swap to a pistol in defense lol. Also claiming the ar 15 blows folk in half was hilarious dude is out to fantasy land

Please tell me he actually said "switching to your secondary is faster than reloading"...

[Grinning Dragon]

You missed the best parts about him training to use the ar for offense and a m9 for defense dude thinks you swap to a pistol in defense lol. Also claiming the ar 15 blows folk in half was hilarious dude is out to fantasy land

Please tell me he actually said "switching to your secondary is faster than reloading"...

Self defense and military combat are different. The weapons and accessories needed in one may or may not be needed or appropriate in the other. For instance, when I was serving in the military. I carried my M4 for offensive combat and a handgun for self defense. Defensive combat is generally up close and very personal. At that range, it is very difficult to use a rifle as a defensive weapon except as a blunt force instrument. My M9 pistol was the self defense weapon of choice, and we were trained to expend only 1-2 shots per adversary in pistol combat

- Col. Craig Tucker USMC Ret.
I'm thinking alot of crayon munchin' has given da Col the stupids.
His whole witness diatribe is chocked full of golden "I don't know a fucking thing about firearms" that is pretty much verbatim out of the anti gunners playbook

[American Legionaries]

Please tell me he actually said "switching to your secondary is faster than reloading"...

Self defense and military combat are different. The weapons and accessories needed in one may or may not be needed or appropriate in the other. For instance, when I was serving in the military. I carried my M4 for offensive combat and a handgun for self defense. Defensive combat is generally up close and very personal. At that range, it is very difficult to use a rifle as a defensive weapon except as a blunt force instrument. My M9 pistol was the self defense weapon of choice, and we were trained to expend only 1-2 shots per adversary in pistol combat

- Col. Craig Tucker USMC Ret.
I'm thinking alot of crayon munchin' has given da Col the stupids.
His whole witness diatribe is chocked full of golden "I don't know a fucking thing about firearms" that is pretty much verbatim out of the anti gunners playbook

Reminder, this clown commanded troops and was put in charge of training more...

[Techocracy101010]

You missed the best parts about him training to use the ar for offense and a m9 for defense dude thinks you swap to a pistol in defense lol. Also claiming the ar 15 blows folk in half was hilarious dude is out to fantasy land

Please tell me he actually said "switching to your secondary is faster than reloading"...

worse actually . The m4 / ar is built for “offense” You only use a pistol for defense.

“The AR-15 is an offensive combat weapon no different in function or purpose than an M4. In my opinion, both weapons are designed to kill as many people as possible, as efficiently as possible, and serve no legitimate sporting or self-defense purpose. Self-defense and military combat are different. The weapons and accessories needed in one may not be needed or appropriate in the other. For instance, when I was serving in the military, I carried my M4 for offensive combat and a handgun for self-defense. Defensive combat is generally up close and very personal. At that range, it is very difficult to use a rifle as a defensive weapon, except as a blunt force instrument. My 9mm pistol was the self-defense weapon of choice, and we were trained to expend only 1-2 rounds per adversary in pistol combat..”- supposed expert

[The Two Jerseys]

Please tell me he actually said "switching to your secondary is faster than reloading"...

Self defense and military combat are different. The weapons and accessories needed in one may or may not be needed or appropriate in the other. For instance, when I was serving in the military. I carried my M4 for offensive combat and a handgun for self defense. Defensive combat is generally up close and very personal. At that range, it is very difficult to use a rifle as a defensive weapon except as a blunt force instrument. My M9 pistol was the self defense weapon of choice, and we were trained to expend only 1-2 shots per adversary in pistol combat

- Col. Craig Tucker USMC Ret.
I'm thinking alot of crayon munchin' has given da Col the stupids.
His whole witness diatribe is chocked full of golden "I don't know a fucking thing about firearms" that is pretty much verbatim out of the anti gunners playbook

I never served a day in my life, yet even I know that if you're using a handgun in combat then things have gone horribly wrong...

[Techocracy101010]

more insanity

“I am familiar with the features, accessories, and capabilities of rifles regulated by Penal Code § 30515(a). The AR-15, like the M4, is an offensive combat weapon system. The only difference is the AR-15 cannot fire on full-auto (continual shots fired in succession so long as the trigger is pulled) or burst (several shots fired in succession with a single pull of the trigger) - a picayune difference that cannot serve to support a non-combat role for the AR-15. In my experience, soldiers are trained to set select-fire weapons to semi-auto mode, so that a single
round is fired with each pull of the trigger. An M4 or M16 on full-automatic is an area fire weapon: the auto rate of fire makes the weapon too difficult to control on a point target. Rifle fire on full automatic is not aimed fire, uses an excessive amo
of ammunition and will damage the weapon if used too often. In fact, in my 14 months of combat, I did not once see an M4 or M16 fired on full auto. Semi-auto function is used almost exclusively in combat. When operated in semi-auto mode, the AR-15 and M4 share the same rates of fire, the same maximum effective range, the same maximum range, use the same magazines designed for combat and the same ammunition. The AR-15 and M4 are both designed to fire a .223 round that
tumbles upon hitting flesh and rips thru the human body. A single round is capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation. The round is designed to kill, not wound, and both the AR-15 and M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble upon impact and cause more severe injury. The combination of automatic rifle and .223 round is a very efficient killing system . The same can be said of the AR-15. Automatic rifles, like the M-16 and its more modern carbine variant M4, are functionally similar to semiautomatic rifles regulated under California's
AWCA and often are equipped with the very same features, like pistol grips and adjustable stocks. It is my opinion, based on my military service, that these features, individually and in combination, make semiautomatic rifles more lethal”

[Techocracy101010]

Here he gets torn apart lol

“OPINIONS AND ANALYSIS
It is my opinion that Colonel (Ret.) Tucker's report is plagued by inaccuracies and opinions that are contradicted by fact.
His claim that a single small arms projectile is capable of "severing the upper
body from the lower body, or decapitation" is so ridiculous that it should, and
actually does, cast doubt on his qualifications as an expert in the field of firearms, 23 particularly as it relates to wound ballistics.”
cont
“Page 5, line 19 - A single round is capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation.
As previously pointed out, the statement is unsupported by any reference and is so ridiculous as to bring discredit to the entire opinion.
In almost 26 years of professional involvement in the field of wound
ballistics, I have never heard, even anecdotally, of an incident wherein a person was decapitated or their upper body was severed from their lower body as a result of being shot by a single projectile fired from any small arm. It is notable that the
223/5.56 is on the lower end of terminal performance potential of the vast calibers available in centerfire rifles. In fact, the .223/5.56 is below the allowable minimum cartridges for deer hunting in some states.
Additionally, since reading Colonel (Ret.) Tucker's supplemental report, I have shared that statement with many associates in the firearms field. All have questioned the credentials of an "expert" that would make such a claim.
It is my opinion that no examples have been provided because such
¡performance has never been witnessed.”

“Page 6, line 24 - Absent any pistol grip, a semi-automatic rifle would be difficult to operate when fired rapidly, as the rifle barrel would seesaw up and down with each shot fired in succession.
The above statement, combined with a prohibition on vertical pistol grips on civilian-owned semi-automatic rifles, appears to infer that any semi-automatic rifle suitable for self-defense should be difficult to operate, or at least at certain rates of fire. That is counterintuitive and finds no support in any training materials I have ever reviewed.
Additionally, the statement can be proven false simply by pointing out that the M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, M14 and BAR rifles were all used by the USMC, with great effectiveness, despite not possessing a vertical pistol grip. Indeed, the infamous Lieutenant General George S. Patton, Jr. described the M-1 Grand as "the greatest [battle implement ever devised." That rifle has no vertical pistol grip, no flash suppressor, no adjustable/folding stock, and its magazine is fixed as far as California law is considered.”
“Page 8, Line 13 - The AR-15 is an offensive combat weapon no different in function or purpose than an M4.
This contradicts his previous statement that the AR-15 and M4 differ in function (automatic vs. semi-automatic fire).
16
EXPERT WITNESS REBUTTAL REPORT OF J. BUFORD BOONE III
The ability to use the AR-15, or any weapon, for offensive purposes does not negate that it can also be used for defensive puposes, just like a handgun. Colonel (Ret.) Tucker has not identified any military that employs the AR-15. Its use as a combat tool thus has not been established. In my experience as a law enforcement officer and trainer, the AR-15 is a preferred tool for defense of officers and individual”

[Greater Cesnica]

Here he gets torn apart lol

“OPINIONS AND ANALYSIS
It is my opinion that Colonel (Ret.) Tucker's report is plagued by inaccuracies and opinions that are contradicted by fact.
His claim that a single small arms projectile is capable of "severing the upper
body from the lower body, or decapitation" is so ridiculous that it should, and
actually does, cast doubt on his qualifications as an expert in the field of firearms, 23 particularly as it relates to wound ballistics.”

I'd like to believe that he doesn't actually believe this shit, but rather is getting a hefty paycheck from certain actors...

[Techocracy101010]

Here he gets torn apart lol

“OPINIONS AND ANALYSIS
It is my opinion that Colonel (Ret.) Tucker's report is plagued by inaccuracies and opinions that are contradicted by fact.
His claim that a single small arms projectile is capable of "severing the upper
body from the lower body, or decapitation" is so ridiculous that it should, and
actually does, cast doubt on his qualifications as an expert in the field of firearms, 23 particularly as it relates to wound ballistics.”

I'd like to believe that he doesn't actually believe this shit, but rather is getting a hefty paycheck from certain actors...

Either he is a liar or he is so dumb i sm actually mad he has a pension. Boomers had it too easy shit my dad would have beat me black and blue for saying such clearly wrong shit