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Gun Control 2020 (IV) - A Gun for Me and A Gun for Thee...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Your Thoughts on Ease of Firearms Access.

No firearms in general.
4
2%
No firearms for anyone except military and specialized police units.
17
8%
No firearms except for law enforcement.
4
2%
Bolt-action/etc. rifles/shotguns under strict circumstances.
8
4%
Hunting firearms & Handguns under strict circumstances.
17
8%
Open access to hunting firearms and handguns for civilians.
12
6%
Open access to hunting firearms but strict access to other weaponry such as semi-automatic rifles.
17
8%
Open access to all weapons up to and including semi-automatic weapons.
44
21%
Open access to all weapons up to and including "destructive devices", artillery pieces, & automatic firearms.
38
18%
Open access to all weapons that one can purchase with their own money (Recreational McNukes and Privateers with guided missile destroyers anyone?)
49
23%
 
Total votes : 210

User avatar
Pax Nerdvana
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14585
Founded: May 22, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:54 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:I would think a scyth would create much more gruesome wounds then a shotgun.

I don't think he's gonna brutally dismember Bugs Bunny with the scythe

Probably true, but you never really know.

I always find it kind of funny when grabbers say "The 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets". If that's the case, then the 1st Amendment only applies to snail mail and physical newspapers.
I am an American Christian male who is interested in various things, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers. #freekyle
Quotes
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin of a Hi-Point."
-Hurtful Thoughts on stuff you want in a gun

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14818
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:07 pm

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Cordel One wrote:I don't think he's gonna brutally dismember Bugs Bunny with the scythe

Probably true, but you never really know.

I always find it kind of funny when grabbers say "The 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets". If that's the case, then the 1st Amendment only applies to snail mail and physical newspapers.

And unamplified live speech.

And religions that existed in 1787 (sorry Mormons).
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36135
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:10 pm

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Cordel One wrote:I don't think he's gonna brutally dismember Bugs Bunny with the scythe

Probably true, but you never really know.

I always find it kind of funny when grabbers say "The 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets". If that's the case, then the 1st Amendment only applies to snail mail and physical newspapers.


Exactly. The reason the early militia acts (but not the Constitution which deliberately does not specify such specifics) specifically REQUIRED every able bodied (well free white) male 18-45 own a musket or muzzle loading rifle (plus 24 or 20 rounds de of ammo) was those were the standard military arms of the time. It was designed to adapt to the technology of the time, not the other way around.

Actually this calls into question the restrictions on automatics, if we updated the militia act so that everyone had the equivalent it would probably require everyone able bodied (regardless of race or gender because equality and all) own an M-16 or M-4, presumably with the happy switch still on it (although admittedly it is just silly on the M-4).
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Pax Nerdvana
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14585
Founded: May 22, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:13 pm

Novus America wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:Probably true, but you never really know.

I always find it kind of funny when grabbers say "The 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets". If that's the case, then the 1st Amendment only applies to snail mail and physical newspapers.


Exactly. The reason the early militia acts (but not the Constitution which deliberately does not specify such specifics) specifically REQUIRED every able bodied (well free white) male 18-45 own a musket or muzzle loading rifle (plus 24 or 20 rounds de of ammo) was those were the standard military arms of the time. It was designed to adapt to the technology of the time, not the other way around.

Actually this calls into question the restrictions on automatics, if we updated the militia act so that everyone had the equivalent it would probably require everyone able bodied (regardless of race or gender because equality and all) own an M-16 or M-4, presumably with the happy switch still on it (although admittedly it is just silly on the M-4).

I wholeheartedly agree. I believe it was Colonel Jeff Cooper who said that no American can truly be a citizen without being qualified on the M16.
The Two Jerseys wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:Probably true, but you never really know.

I always find it kind of funny when grabbers say "The 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets". If that's the case, then the 1st Amendment only applies to snail mail and physical newspapers.

And unamplified live speech.

And religions that existed in 1787 (sorry Mormons).

And nothing more then hardcover books.
I am an American Christian male who is interested in various things, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers. #freekyle
Quotes
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin of a Hi-Point."
-Hurtful Thoughts on stuff you want in a gun

User avatar
Violent Mike
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Apr 11, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Violent Mike » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:39 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Exactly. The reason the early militia acts (but not the Constitution which deliberately does not specify such specifics) specifically REQUIRED every able bodied (well free white) male 18-45 own a musket or muzzle loading rifle (plus 24 or 20 rounds de of ammo) was those were the standard military arms of the time. It was designed to adapt to the technology of the time, not the other way around.

Actually this calls into question the restrictions on automatics, if we updated the militia act so that everyone had the equivalent it would probably require everyone able bodied (regardless of race or gender because equality and all) own an M-16 or M-4, presumably with the happy switch still on it (although admittedly it is just silly on the M-4).

I wholeheartedly agree. I believe it was Colonel Jeff Cooper who said that no American can truly be a citizen without being qualified on the M16.
The Two Jerseys wrote:And unamplified live speech.

And religions that existed in 1787 (sorry Mormons).

And nothing more then hardcover books.

Hope you like having your car searched.

User avatar
Gig em Aggies
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7435
Founded: Aug 15, 2009
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Gig em Aggies » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:42 am

Violent Mike wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:I wholeheartedly agree. I believe it was Colonel Jeff Cooper who said that no American can truly be a citizen without being qualified on the M16.
And nothing more then hardcover books.

Hope you like having your car searched.

can't have your car searched if it's getting a massage at the junkyard.
Last edited by Gig em Aggies on Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
“One of the serious problems of planning against Aggie doctrine is that the Aggies do not read their manuals nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine.”
“The reason that the Aggies does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the Aggies practices chaos on a daily basis.”
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User avatar
Violent Mike
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Apr 11, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Violent Mike » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:52 am

Can refuse to have troops quartered in your home, unless you live in a travel trailer.

User avatar
Pax Nerdvana
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14585
Founded: May 22, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:32 am

Violent Mike wrote:Can refuse to have troops quartered in your home, unless you live in a travel trailer.

And skyscrapers would fall under that as well.
I am an American Christian male who is interested in various things, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers. #freekyle
Quotes
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin of a Hi-Point."
-Hurtful Thoughts on stuff you want in a gun

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24061
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:19 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Violent Mike wrote:Can refuse to have troops quartered in your home, unless you live in a travel trailer.

And skyscrapers would fall under that as well.

Only residential portions.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33530
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:20 am

Kowani wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:And skyscrapers would fall under that as well.

Only residential portions.


Business skyscrapers existed in 1776?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24061
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:26 am

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Only residential portions.


Business skyscrapers existed in 1776?

Well, no, because there were no skyscrapers of any kind until 1885.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33530
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:29 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Business skyscrapers existed in 1776?

Well, no, because there were no skyscrapers of any kind until 1885.


Hrmm, makes you wonder rather skyscrapers are really houses...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36135
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:37 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Business skyscrapers existed in 1776?

Well, no, because there were no skyscrapers of any kind until 1885.


Exactly. That is the point. The constitution does not say “this only applies to things and technologies available in the 1780s”. So to say it only applies to 1780s weapons is absurd.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24061
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:38 am

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, no, because there were no skyscrapers of any kind until 1885.


Hrmm, makes you wonder rather skyscrapers are really houses...

John Adams says no, Ben Franklin is more openminded.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33530
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:42 am

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Hrmm, makes you wonder rather skyscrapers are really houses...

John Adams says no, Ben Franklin is more openminded.


Which Federalist paper addresses rather skyscrapers are houses?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Grinning Dragon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7534
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:59 am

Violent Mike wrote:Can refuse to have troops quartered in your home, unless you live in a travel trailer.

During peace time, a requirement of war time quartering of troops can be done by means approved by the legislature as a balance between private property rights and the potential wartime need for military quarters.
I prefer Dangerous Freedom over peaceful slavery! Sic Semper Tyrannis!
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User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24061
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:18 pm

Novus America wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, no, because there were no skyscrapers of any kind until 1885.


Exactly. That is the point. The constitution does not say “this only applies to things and technologies available in the 1780s”. So to say it only applies to 1780s weapons is absurd.

From a legalistic point of view, you're right.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36135
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Kowani wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Exactly. That is the point. The constitution does not say “this only applies to things and technologies available in the 1780s”. So to say it only applies to 1780s weapons is absurd.

From a legalistic point of view, you're right.


And then this is a good argument “assault weapons” bans are unconstitutional, as the Second Amendment clearly was designed so that at least all “free white men” could own (actually were REQUIRED to own) the commonly used military small arms of the time (as the supporting legislation, the militia act, requires such weapons to be owned by said person).

As the AR-15, AR-10 and M-14 are contemporary equivalents to the Charleville 1766 and Kentucky Long Rifle types specified as REQUIRED to be owned in the Militia Act, (you bought you own and could pick which one you wanted) they should be allowed for ownership, at least for all members of the militia, which includes ALL able bodied men 17-45 (the racial thing was removed, and the age lowered to 17 in subsequent amendments).

But the whole men only seems pretty damn sexist, so in the name of equality women should be allowed to own the same weapons as men.
Last edited by Novus America on Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24061
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:06 pm

Novus America wrote:
Kowani wrote:From a legalistic point of view, you're right.


And then this is a good argument “assault weapons” bans are unconstitutional, as the Second Amendment clearly was designed so that at least all “free white men” could own (actually were REQUIRED to own) the commonly used military small arms of the time (as the supporting legislation, the militia act, requires such weapons to be owned by said person).

As the AR-15, AR-10 and M-14 are contemporary equivalents to the Charleville 1766 and Kentucky Long Rifle types specified as REQUIRED to be owned in the Militia Act, (you bought you own and could pick which one you wanted) they should be allowed for ownership, at least for all members of the militia, which includes ALL able bodied men 17-45 (the racial thing was removed, and the age lowered to 17 in subsequent amendments).

But the whole men only seems pretty damn sexist, so in the name of equality women should be allowed to own the same weapons as men.

No. Superseded by the Militia Act of 1908, which while composing the militia of "every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able; bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age," does not require universal weapons ownership.

Also, it does now include women, but only women who are members of the National Guard.
Last edited by Kowani on Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33530
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:08 pm

Kowani wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And then this is a good argument “assault weapons” bans are unconstitutional, as the Second Amendment clearly was designed so that at least all “free white men” could own (actually were REQUIRED to own) the commonly used military small arms of the time (as the supporting legislation, the militia act, requires such weapons to be owned by said person).

As the AR-15, AR-10 and M-14 are contemporary equivalents to the Charleville 1766 and Kentucky Long Rifle types specified as REQUIRED to be owned in the Militia Act, (you bought you own and could pick which one you wanted) they should be allowed for ownership, at least for all members of the militia, which includes ALL able bodied men 17-45 (the racial thing was removed, and the age lowered to 17 in subsequent amendments).

But the whole men only seems pretty damn sexist, so in the name of equality women should be allowed to own the same weapons as men.

No. Superseded by the Militia Act of 1908, which while composing the militia of "every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able; bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age," does not require universal weapons ownership.

Also, it does now include women, but only women who are members of the National Guard.


Yes, but the absence of a mandate is not a ban.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36135
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:16 pm

Kowani wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And then this is a good argument “assault weapons” bans are unconstitutional, as the Second Amendment clearly was designed so that at least all “free white men” could own (actually were REQUIRED to own) the commonly used military small arms of the time (as the supporting legislation, the militia act, requires such weapons to be owned by said person).

As the AR-15, AR-10 and M-14 are contemporary equivalents to the Charleville 1766 and Kentucky Long Rifle types specified as REQUIRED to be owned in the Militia Act, (you bought you own and could pick which one you wanted) they should be allowed for ownership, at least for all members of the militia, which includes ALL able bodied men 17-45 (the racial thing was removed, and the age lowered to 17 in subsequent amendments).

But the whole men only seems pretty damn sexist, so in the name of equality women should be allowed to own the same weapons as men.

No. Superseded by the Militia Act of 1908, which while composing the militia of "every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able; bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age," does not require universal weapons ownership.

Also, it does now include women, but only women who are members of the National Guard.


I know the requirement is unfortunately no longer there, but still under the 1908 act all men 17-45 (and yes women in the Guard) are the militia, but just because the militia are no longer required to provide their own arms, that still does not change the fact the as per the constitution they have a right to such weapons, if they wish.

(But the women thing still needs to be fixed to be all women who are citizens or applying to become citizens as the militia too).
Last edited by Novus America on Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24061
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:18 pm

Novus America wrote:
Kowani wrote:No. Superseded by the Militia Act of 1908, which while composing the militia of "every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able; bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age," does not require universal weapons ownership.

Also, it does now include women, but only women who are members of the National Guard.


I know the requirement is unfortunately no longer there, but still under the 1908 act all men 17-45 (and yes women in the Guard) are the militia, but just because the militia are no longer required to provide their own arms, that still does not change the fact the as per the constitution they have a right to such weapons, if they wish.

Ah, yes. This is true.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
The Chuck
Minister
 
Posts: 3031
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chuck » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:20 pm

Kowani wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And then this is a good argument “assault weapons” bans are unconstitutional, as the Second Amendment clearly was designed so that at least all “free white men” could own (actually were REQUIRED to own) the commonly used military small arms of the time (as the supporting legislation, the militia act, requires such weapons to be owned by said person).

As the AR-15, AR-10 and M-14 are contemporary equivalents to the Charleville 1766 and Kentucky Long Rifle types specified as REQUIRED to be owned in the Militia Act, (you bought you own and could pick which one you wanted) they should be allowed for ownership, at least for all members of the militia, which includes ALL able bodied men 17-45 (the racial thing was removed, and the age lowered to 17 in subsequent amendments).

But the whole men only seems pretty damn sexist, so in the name of equality women should be allowed to own the same weapons as men.

No. Superseded by the Militia Act of 1908, which while composing the militia of "every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able; bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age," does not require universal weapons ownership.

Also, it does now include women, but only women who are members of the National Guard.


Well... you've seen my rifle Kowani... :P

1st gen. immigrant and I'm armed up just like how the founding fathers intended...

I smell a good founding fathers copy pasta moment somewhere around here... :P
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:24 pm

The Chuck wrote:
Kowani wrote:No. Superseded by the Militia Act of 1908, which while composing the militia of "every able-bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able; bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty-five years of age," does not require universal weapons ownership.

Also, it does now include women, but only women who are members of the National Guard.


Well... you've seen my rifle Kowani... :P

1st gen. immigrant and I'm armed up just like how the founding fathers intended...

I smell a good founding fathers copy pasta moment somewhere around here... :P

...You're Korean.
The founding fathers were not keen on minorities having weapons.

While we can't know what they thought about Armed Koreans, due to the total lack of Korean immigrants in the late 1700's, the fact thaat the militia act of 1792 only included white men does not say they would've looked kindly upon it.
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Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:29 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Chuck wrote:
Well... you've seen my rifle Kowani... :P

1st gen. immigrant and I'm armed up just like how the founding fathers intended...

I smell a good founding fathers copy pasta moment somewhere around here... :P

...You're Korean.
The founding fathers were not keen on minorities having weapons.

While we can't know what they thought about Armed Koreans, due to the total lack of Korean immigrants in the late 1700's, the fact thaat the militia act of 1792 only included white men does not say they would've looked kindly upon it.


Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point. No matter how much modern gun culture approves of your rifle Chuck, the FFs would almost certainly not be keen on some person from a land they have literally never heard of having a sweet gat.
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