Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

[The Emerald Legion]

GOA, VCDL Win Injunction to Keep SafeSide Tactical Open

Springfield, VA -(AmmoLand.com)- Gun Owners of America (GOA) and Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) have won a big victory in the battle to reopen indoor gun ranges across the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Anti-gun Gov. Ralph Northam deemed indoor gun ranges nonessential, and ordered them closed. When GOA and VCDL brought suit to challenge that decision, Northam attempted to remove the suit out of state court and have it considered by a federal court. That tactic backfired, however, when the federal judge sided with GOA/VCDL, and sent the case back to state court. The complaint was subsequently heard by a state judge, who also ruled in favor of GOA and VCDL, handing Governor Northam back-to-back losses.

The judge’s order recognizes SafeSide Lynchburg’s ability to “operate to the fullest extent possible in a manner consistent with social distancing and sanitizing guidance from federal and state authorities.”

GOA’s Erich Pratt and VCDL’s Phillip Van Cleave were excited by the news. “Gov. Northam has little regard for the rights of gun owners, and his closure of indoor gun ranges is no different. GOA will keep opposing Northam and stand up for the rights of Virginians in the commonwealth,” Erich Pratt, Senior Vice President for GOA, concluded.

Again, just because there is "operation freakout" going on, does not mean a suspension of rights nor as a means or justification to suspend those rights.


So apparently the jackass mayor of jackson, is getting sued for an illegal EO of banning open carry in jackson, the MS AG sent out a letter basically saying, sorry bro you don't have authority to infringe on a constitutional right during this virus thingy nor is the let's blame violence on guns; "gun violence" a justification.
Jackson Mayor Hit with Lawsuit, Spurned by City Council over Open Carry Ban

Also FYI.
After ruling in New York gun rights case, more Second Amendment cases set for Friday conference

We expect orders from Friday’s conference on Monday, May 4, at 9:30 a.m. EDT.

Mance v. Barr – Whether the federal ban on interstate handgun sales violates the Second Amendment or the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment.

Rogers v. Grewal – In a challenge to New Jersey’s handgun carry permit scheme, whether the Second Amendment protects the right to carry a handgun outside the home for self-defense; and whether the government can condition the right to carry a handgun outside the home on the showing of a special need to carry a firearm.

Pena v. Horan – In a challenge to a California law banning most commonly used handguns, the petition asks the justices to weigh in on the scope of the Second Amendment.

Gould v. Lipson – In a challenge to Massachusetts’ handgun carry permit scheme, whether the Second Amendment protects the right to carry a handgun outside the home for self-defense; and whether the government can condition the right to carry a handgun outside the home on the showing of a special need to carry a firearm.

Cheeseman v. Polillo – Challenge to New Jersey handgun carry permit scheme.

Ciolek v. New Jersey – Challenge to New Jersey handgun carry permit scheme.

Worman v. Healey – Challenge to Massachusetts ban on the possession of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.

Malpasso v. Pallozzi – In a challenge to Maryland’s handgun carry permit scheme, whether the Second Amendment protects the right to carry handguns outside the home for self-defense.

Culp v. Raoul – Whether the Second Amendment requires Illinois to allow nonresidents to apply for a concealed-carry license.

Wilson v. Cook County – Challenge to Cook County’s ban on assault rifles and large-capacity magazines, as well as to the Second Amendment analysis used by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit to uphold the ban.

Dear sweet gods it would be great if SCOTUS came down on our side for this. Unless I'm mistaken, a supreme court ruling against any of the assault weapon/large-capacity magazine bans would fuck them being placed nationwide, would it not?

[Grinning Dragon]

GOA, VCDL Win Injunction to Keep SafeSide Tactical Open


Again, just because there is "operation freakout" going on, does not mean a suspension of rights nor as a means or justification to suspend those rights.


So apparently the jackass mayor of jackson, is getting sued for an illegal EO of banning open carry in jackson, the MS AG sent out a letter basically saying, sorry bro you don't have authority to infringe on a constitutional right during this virus thingy nor is the let's blame violence on guns; "gun violence" a justification.
Jackson Mayor Hit with Lawsuit, Spurned by City Council over Open Carry Ban

Also FYI.
After ruling in New York gun rights case, more Second Amendment cases set for Friday conference

Dear sweet gods it would be great if SCOTUS came down on our side for this. Unless I'm mistaken, a supreme court ruling against any of the assault weapon/large-capacity magazine bans would fuck them being placed nationwide, would it not?

To be honest the Heller decision already addressed that, the lower courts have been ignoring or twisting Scalia's usage of 'common use".
Kavanaugh opined in writing on the mootness of the NY case and said "the court should address the issue by taking another of the several other Second Amendment cases which have been appealed to the Supreme Court (the plaintiffs have petitioned for a writ of certiorari and are waiting)."
IMO, this would indicate that the court is aware and tired of the lower courts ignoring precedent set by the supreme court on the issue that rifles like the AR/AK platform are "common use" and violating the 2nd Amendment by allowing such bans to continue. It's even got to a point that the usually quiet jurist Clarence Thomas has been speaking out on how the lower courts and states need to be corrected and to quit treating the 2nd Amendment as a second class right. I can only imagine Thomas just itching to bitch slap some states and lower courts around.

[Aclion]

Dear sweet gods it would be great if SCOTUS came down on our side for this. Unless I'm mistaken, a supreme court ruling against any of the assault weapon/large-capacity magazine bans would fuck them being placed nationwide, would it not?

To be honest the Heller decision already addressed that, the lower courts have been ignoring or twisting Scalia's usage of 'common use".
Kavanaugh opined in writing on the mootness of the NY case and said "the court should address the issue by taking another of the several other Second Amendment cases which have been appealed to the Supreme Court (the plaintiffs have petitioned for a writ of certiorari and are waiting)."
IMO, this would indicate that the court is aware and tired of the lower courts ignoring precedent set by the supreme court on the issue that rifles like the AR/AK platform are "common use" and violating the 2nd Amendment by allowing such bans to continue. It's even got to a point that the usually quiet jurist Clarence Thomas has been speaking out on how the lower courts and states need to be corrected and to quit treating the 2nd Amendment as a second class right. I can only imagine Thomas just itching to bitch slap some states and lower courts around.

I really doubt anything short of a contempt citation will put a stop to it.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

I wonder ...
If taking away small arms would be better than taking large arms.

Hmm.

Also, to a previous argument.
https://casetext.com/case/dist-of-columbia-v-heller-3

I believe this says militias are illegal ?

[The Chuck]

I wonder ...
If taking away small arms would be better than taking large arms.

Nah, either way is a dumb as fuck idea. Reason being, 68ish homicides per 100,000 people in my city. I need firearms to protect myself, and my loved ones from gangs, crooks, and the occasional politician.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

I wonder ...
If taking away small arms would be better than taking large arms.

Nah, either way is a dumb as fuck idea. Reason being, 68ish homicides per 100,000 people in my city. I need firearms to protect myself, and my loved ones from gangs, crooks, and the occasional politician.

Can we at least agree that we need better background checks and safety training ?
(Paid for by the state of course)

[The Emerald Legion]

Nah, either way is a dumb as fuck idea. Reason being, 68ish homicides per 100,000 people in my city. I need firearms to protect myself, and my loved ones from gangs, crooks, and the occasional politician.

Can we at least agree that we need better background checks and safety training ?
(Paid for by the state of course)

Honestly, not really. No. What we need is police forces that actually do their job. Not just randomly and arbitrarily enforce laws when they feel like it and only when they feel like it.

I wonder ...
If taking away small arms would be better than taking large arms.

Hmm.

Also, to a previous argument.
https://casetext.com/case/dist-of-columbia-v-heller-3

I believe this says militias are illegal ?

You believe incorrectly, it in fact says that literally every citizen of the united states capable of fighting is a part of the US citizens militia.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Can we at least agree that we need better background checks and safety training ?
(Paid for by the state of course)

Honestly, not really. No. What we need is police forces that actually do their job. Not just randomly and arbitrarily enforce laws when they feel like it and only when they feel like it.

I wonder ...
If taking away small arms would be better than taking large arms.

Hmm.

Also, to a previous argument.
https://casetext.com/case/dist-of-columbia-v-heller-3

I believe this says militias are illegal ?

You believe incorrectly, it in fact says that literally every citizen of the united states capable of fighting is a part of the US citizens militia.

What kind of police do you have ?

[Arzt0zka]

Honestly, not really. No. What we need is police forces that actually do their job. Not just randomly and arbitrarily enforce laws when they feel like it and only when they feel like it.



You believe incorrectly, it in fact says that literally every citizen of the united states capable of fighting is a part of the US citizens militia.

What kind of police do you have ?

I live near a major city so the police are authoritarian power fetishists, so even more reason for me to have guns.

[Arzt0zka]

Honestly, not really. No. What we need is police forces that actually do their job. Not just randomly and arbitrarily enforce laws when they feel like it and only when they feel like it.



You believe incorrectly, it in fact says that literally every citizen of the united states capable of fighting is a part of the US citizens militia.

What kind of police do you have ?

I live near a major city so the police are authoritarian power fetishists, so even more reason for me to have guns.

[The Chuck]

Nah, either way is a dumb as fuck idea. Reason being, 68ish homicides per 100,000 people in my city. I need firearms to protect myself, and my loved ones from gangs, crooks, and the occasional politician.

Can we at least agree that we need better background checks and safety training ?
(Paid for by the state of course)

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Can we at least agree that we need better background checks and safety training ?
(Paid for by the state of course)

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

What kind of police do you have ?

I live near a major city so the police are authoritarian power fetishists, so even more reason for me to have guns.

yikes.
Maybe you should call your regional representative or somthing.
Is there like an inspector general extension.
Cuz, bad apples in the force go to jail too.

[The Emerald Legion]

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

It's usually inefficient because the people calling for more background checks want it to be inefficient and stupid, so as to make getting a gun harder for everyone.

[Diopolis]

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

A lot of that is BS.
There is a single situation which in the majority of states does not require a background check- private transactions(sale from one individual who is not a licensed dealer to another). It's important to remember the scale of the problem here- private sales are pretty rare in the gun world and most of them are between family members. The same laws regarding prohibited persons apply to private sales as to more typical purchases. The only difference is the lack of a background check.
It's also important to note here that one of the major issues with changing these rules is the how. To put a finer point on it- giving randos access to the same background check system as gun dealers(who are background checked and licensed at the federal level to have access to the same data as the cops) is not a good thing.

[Grinning Dragon]

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

There are no loopholes. Anti gunners are lying to you, they seem to think any time someone exercises their enumerated right there is a loophole being exploited, anti gunners hate freedom, hate individual rights and the exercise thereof.
Then there is the issue where there are many more false positives barring a person from purchasing vs keeping prohibited people from purchasing, this is all because a person just happens to share the same name and birth date as the prohibited person. IMO, the background check system is a joke, and unconstitutional and should be repealed.

[The Chuck]

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

Seems like you are falling for false narrative information. Anti-Gun folks harp on about "loopholes" that don't exist to drive a narrative and get folks like you to believe in them. I'd recommend doing some self studying and research on American gun laws. If you aren't an American too, why does this bother you?

[Krasny-Volny]

I live near a major city so the police are authoritarian power fetishists, so even more reason for me to have guns.

yikes.
Maybe you should call your regional representative or somthing.
Is there like an inspector general extension.
Cuz, bad apples in the force go to jail too.

Ineffectual cops and some - not all, but definitely some - big cities just go together.

I used to live in a pretty terrible neighborhood in Houston with a serious gang problem. I could hear gunfire at night and based on timing the sirens a response time of fifteen minutes wasn’t uncommon. By then of course the perps were long gone and whoever was getting shot at was probably dead on the scene.

It isn’t that the local PD was intentionally being terrible, they just didn’t patrol the worse off areas well enough and often took a long time to get there when they were needed.

This is where going armed becomes an actual necessity.

[The Emerald Legion]

yikes.
Maybe you should call your regional representative or somthing.
Is there like an inspector general extension.
Cuz, bad apples in the force go to jail too.

Ineffectual cops and some - not all, but definitely some - big cities just go together.

I used to live in a pretty terrible neighborhood in Houston with a serious gang problem. I could hear gunfire at night and based on timing the sirens a response time of fifteen minutes wasn’t uncommon. By then of course the perps were long gone and whoever was getting shot at was probably dead on the scene.

It isn’t that the local PD was intentionally being terrible, they just didn’t patrol the worse off areas well enough and often took a long time to get there when they were needed.

This is where going armed becomes an actual necessity.

And if you're out in more rural areas, the sheriffs tend to be pretty corrupt. Well, Either corrupt or really good.

[The Chuck]

Well we now celebrate 28 years of Roof Koreans right around now.

Remember the names of David Joo, Rodney King, and Latasha Harlins. A great many travesties and a great many heroics occurred leading up to and during the LA Riots. When the police fail at their job, you get people taking matters into their own hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_ ... _the_riots

A&E Special Segment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYT9Hew9ZU

I'd recommend purchasing and watching the full segment from A&E titled "L.A. Burning: The Riots 25 Years Later". Pretty good documentary.

Count Dankula Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pwl4pvr300

[Hurtful Thoughts]

I live near a major city so the police are authoritarian power fetishists, so even more reason for me to have guns.

yikes.
Maybe you should call your regional representative or somthing.
Is there like an inspector general extension.
Cuz, bad apples in the force go to jail too.

Also corrupt. And appoints a like-minded Attorney-General in such instances.
-Complaining in such cases sometimes resaults in police harassmens and/or your dog being shot after the Governor has your home anonamously swatted.

Shit flows down, not up.

Apparently there's r/n a bit of a scandal where literally all the votes from 3 counties weren't even counted this year... so... there's that.

[Rojava Free State]

What kind of police do you have ?

I live near a major city so the police are authoritarian power fetishists, so even more reason for me to have guns.

Sounds like the cops in Macomb County Michigan. I remember an incident a couple years ago where the Macomb County sheriff stopped a car on suspicion of drugs and when some guy got out and ran, they tased him, then beat the other people in the car and then arrested a woman for trying to get her kid out of the car. All this over the suspicion they had weed on them, and in the end they found nothing. Then there was the Roseville PD who ticketed people for running their car in their driveway during winter, the Warren PD who beat a man and then threatened to frame an investigator looking into the issue as a pedophile, the Utica PD who threatened to launch an unconstitutional raid on a friend of mines house if he had a party cause one of their officers lived next door, and the Eastpointe police who kept stopping and harassing black people. These guys really suck ass, and to me it's like being in Los Angeles back in the 90s when the LAPD was at their worst.

[Aclion]

Already exists. You aren't an American are you? When you go to get a firearm from the gun store, you fill out a Form 4473 and a NCIS (Background Check) is instantly filed.

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

That's because you uncritically listen to dishonest twats.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

Seems like you are falling for false narrative information. Anti-Gun folks harp on about "loopholes" that don't exist to drive a narrative and get folks like you to believe in them. I'd recommend doing some self studying and research on American gun laws. If you aren't an American too, why does this bother you?

Lol I’m definitely an American.
(I have the eu flag because my nation is a bunch of islands)

Yeah but I keep on hearing about loopholes and how the system is inefficient and how flagged people still get guns and all that.

There are no loopholes. Anti gunners are lying to you, they seem to think any time someone exercises their enumerated right there is a loophole being exploited, anti gunners hate freedom, hate individual rights and the exercise thereof.
Then there is the issue where there are many more false positives barring a person from purchasing vs keeping prohibited people from purchasing, this is all because a person just happens to share the same name and birth date as the prohibited person. IMO, the background check system is a joke, and unconstitutional and should be repealed.

Well.
I’m all for freedom and individual rights,
But I still think that guns are too open.
Like,
Let me put it this way.
The argument is either for more guns or for less.
Nobody hates freedom.
The only people who would be interested in taking away freedoms for the sake of it are totalitarian politicians that want power.
If you want less guns it’s because you think they are causing a problem.
If you want more guns you think your freedoms are being unfairly controlled, or that you need them.
Besides some individual with a totalitarian streak.
What malicious motive could it possibly be for less guns.
Taking away a right makes people unhappy, you get less votes.
Politicians wouldn’t shoot them selves in the foot. (At least not the smart ones).
I see however, why a politician might be maliciously motivated for guns.
“enter corrupt NRA lobby”.

I do see the argument that the politicians are taking it away maliciously and are only pretending there is a problem.
But the scale that would have to be, and the implied things they would do is just too far fetched for me.

You are either trying to disarm people so you can do some authoritarian stuff or you are being corrupted by money and ignoring the death.

Like.
In a world where it is efficient, and easy.
Why not get a background check, and safety training.

You need a drivers license after all. (Driving isn't a right though...), but still it’s a responsibility.

Why not go and say hey, I want a gun license.
So they go, and see, hmm, no (big) criminal behavior or repeat offenses, no dangerous mental issue.
Go to some training lessons.
You are trained how to properly and safely use a gun.
You get a license.
Go to a store, show the license, and walk out of the store with the new gun,
Maybe if you have kids or something be more strict about storage.

No hassle.
You learned a skill.
Once you do it it’s super easy to get a gun.

Then again.
I am one person.
What would be the cons of an idea like this ?

[Kernen]

Seems like you are falling for false narrative information. Anti-Gun folks harp on about "loopholes" that don't exist to drive a narrative and get folks like you to believe in them. I'd recommend doing some self studying and research on American gun laws. If you aren't an American too, why does this bother you?

Lol I’m definitely an American.
(I have the eu flag because my nation is a bunch of islands)

There are no loopholes. Anti gunners are lying to you, they seem to think any time someone exercises their enumerated right there is a loophole being exploited, anti gunners hate freedom, hate individual rights and the exercise thereof.
Then there is the issue where there are many more false positives barring a person from purchasing vs keeping prohibited people from purchasing, this is all because a person just happens to share the same name and birth date as the prohibited person. IMO, the background check system is a joke, and unconstitutional and should be repealed.

Well.
I’m all for freedom and individual rights,
But I still think that guns are too open.
Like,
Let me put it this way.
The argument is either for more guns or for less.
Nobody hates freedom.
The only people who would be interested in taking away freedoms for the sake of it are totalitarian politicians that want power.
If you want less guns it’s because you think they are causing a problem.
If you want more guns you think your freedoms are being unfairly controlled, or that you need them.
Besides some individual with a totalitarian streak.
What malicious motive could it possibly be for less guns.
Taking away a right makes people unhappy, you get less votes.
Politicians wouldn’t shoot them selves in the foot. (At least not the smart ones).
I see however, why a politician might be maliciously motivated for guns.
“enter corrupt NRA lobby”.

I do see the argument that the politicians are taking it away maliciously and are only pretending there is a problem.
But the scale that would have to be, and the implied things they would do is just too far fetched for me.

You are either trying to disarm people so you can do some authoritarian stuff or you are being corrupted by money and ignoring the death.

Like.
In a world where it is efficient, and easy.
Why not get a background check, and safety training.

You need a drivers license after all. (Driving isn't a right though...), but still it’s a responsibility.

Why not go and say hey, I want a gun license.
So they go, and see, hmm, no (big) criminal behavior or repeat offenses, no dangerous mental issue.
Go to some training lessons.
You are trained how to properly and safely use a gun.
You get a license.
Go to a store, show the license, and walk out of the store with the new gun,
Maybe if you have kids or something be more strict about storage.

No hassle.
You learned a skill.
Once you do it it’s super easy to get a gun.

Then again.
I am one person.
What would be the cons of an idea like this ?

The con is that licenses are used in an exclusionary manner, and that your right to bear arms is a constitutional right that is harmed by requiring a license, storage law, and 'training'.

I swear, I don't get why people think you need a class. Modern firearms come with a manual, and even if illiterate, guns are not that hard to figure out. Children can, and do, use them safely every day.