Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

[Bromagia]

LOL the booblehead lawcenter? I wouldn't trust any information posted on that site as it isn't a valid source.
Just like the study on SYG law I posted earlier that got canned, booblehead group loves to pad their numbers and or ignore data and skew the facts to fit their agenda.
Not all homicides are bad, of the 11K+ (omitting suicide with the aid of a firearm as that stat doesn't belong and should be its own category) homicides with the aid of a firearm; some of them if not most are going to fall under justifiable homicides.

If you only agree with studies you like.
Then you will only hear what you want too, and not nessiseraly the truth.

Trusting a study on gun deaths from Giffords is like trusting a study on the health effects of tobacco from Philip Morris.

[Bromagia]

I guess I've been using my firearms wrong all this time, then.

Talking about what they are made.
Besides target shooting (sounds like fun).
And hunting ( )

The bu ting is still killing.
And you could airsoft or paint for the target.
There’s no reason to keep a recreational gun off the range.

There's no reason to keep a recreational gun on the range, either.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

True. Then again I have never been a fan of operating of guilt first, prove innocence second, nor have I been a fan of upended due process on mere accusation/hearsay.

Which brings up this, U.S. Supreme Court Takes Another 2A Case To Conference


So here we a classical case of someone must also pay for the sins of another. So not only has a red flag order fucked over one guy, they've decided to fuck over a completely innocent woman, due process be damned. It's all bullshit.

That is due process. The state's competing interest in protecting competing rights, including the interests of public safety, and the deliberately temporary nature of TROs, makes a temporary deprivation of rights acceptable when it meets certain procedural standards. Its the same procedural premise that makes an arrest without a successful conviction not itself a crime.

So wait, someone was deemed a mental danger and they took the guns out of the household.
Seems ok.
Did they refund the lady ?

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

The state has an obvious interest in apprehending criminals. The state's interest in punishing people who have not been accused of committing a crime is far more dubious.

Red flag laws are not punitive in design. This is on par with DUI checkpoints, which are also not intended to collect evidence of criminal wrongdoing, but to reduce risks to public safety.

Incidentally, this is logically similar to the prohibition of telling lies under oath despite your ostensible right to free speech.

You have a right to pull the 5th and not do the oath though.

[The Chuck]

That is due process. The state's competing interest in protecting competing rights, including the interests of public safety, and the deliberately temporary nature of TROs, makes a temporary deprivation of rights acceptable when it meets certain procedural standards. Its the same procedural premise that makes an arrest without a successful conviction not itself a crime.

So wait, someone was deemed a mental danger and they took the guns out of the household.
Seems ok.
Did they refund the lady ?

Nope, no refund, no nothing. The person with mental issues was removed from the environment and the lady (not with mental issues) didn't get her rightful property restored to her.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Talking about what they are made.
Besides target shooting (sounds like fun).
And hunting ( )

The bu ting is still killing.
And you could airsoft or paint for the target.
There’s no reason to keep a recreational gun off the range.

There's no reason to keep a recreational gun on the range, either.

Why.
It’s too dangerous to keep in the mix.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

So wait, someone was deemed a mental danger and they took the guns out of the household.
Seems ok.
Did they refund the lady ?

Nope, no refund, no nothing. The person with mental issues was removed from the environment and the lady (not with mental issues) didn't get her rightful property restored to her.

They should have refunded her.
And if he was no longer in the household it would make sense to bring the guns back.

But in general.
If someone is flagged for mental issues.
Plz plz plz keep guns away from them.
For their safety and others.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

If you only agree with studies you like.
Then you will only hear what you want too, and not nessiseraly the truth.

Trusting a study on gun deaths from Giffords is like trusting a study on the health effects of tobacco from Philip Morris.

Then what do you think would be a fair source that shows all the data (not cherry picked stuff)

[Telconi]

Well let's see, there are 1.2 guns per person in America, and 12 gun deaths per 100,000

So 9,999 out of 10,000 guns are apparently defective.

Do I need to pull up the stats of gun deaths in other countries again ?

You can spew irrelevant stuff all you want, but you never *need* to do it.

[Telconi]

There's no reason to keep a recreational gun on the range, either.

Why.
It’s too dangerous to keep in the mix.

Then don't take your target gun home with you.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Why.
It’s too dangerous to keep in the mix.

Then don't take your target gun home with you.

Perfect!
So we agree target guns can stay in ranges.

[Telconi]

Then don't take your target gun home with you.

Perfect!
So we agree target guns can stay in ranges.

That'd depend on the range.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Do I need to pull up the stats of gun deaths in other countries again ?

You can spew irrelevant stuff all you want, but you never *need* to do it.

You always focus on the wrong things ....

It is relevant and proves the point which you missed.
That compared to other places like Us.
We have like 2 times the sucide rate and 15 times the homocide rate. (From guns)

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Perfect!
So we agree target guns can stay in ranges.

That'd depend on the range.

Intersting.
I could agree to that.

Edit.

Oh wait you mean the range place not the range shooting distance.
Well, ranged would have to be funded by the goverment to allow secure storage and all that.

[Telconi]

You can spew irrelevant stuff all you want, but you never *need* to do it.

You always focus on the wrong things ....

It is relevant and proves the point which you missed.
That compared to other places like Us.
We have like 2 times the sucide rate and 15 times the homocide rate. (From guns)

What other places like us?

[Telconi]

That'd depend on the range.

Intersting.
I could agree to that.

Edit.

Oh wait you mean the range place not the range shooting distance.
Well, ranged would have to be funded by the goverment to allow secure storage and all that.

Well if they allow secure storage and that's what you want to do, go for it. I don't see any reason why you ought to be forced to take your gun home.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

You always focus on the wrong things ....

It is relevant and proves the point which you missed.
That compared to other places like Us.
We have like 2 times the sucide rate and 15 times the homocide rate. (From guns)

What other places like us?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Bottom left.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Intersting.
I could agree to that.

Edit.

Oh wait you mean the range place not the range shooting distance.
Well, ranged would have to be funded by the goverment to allow secure storage and all that.

Well if they allow secure storage and that's what you want to do, go for it. I don't see any reason why you ought to be forced to take your gun home.

Great!

So guns not any more useful in deference than the basics (cheap basics I might add) can be classified as sport guns.

[Telconi]

What other places like us?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Bottom left.

This is like the fifth time you've copy and pasted that link, if you don't have anything to add I don't know what you expect this time.

[Telconi]

Well if they allow secure storage and that's what you want to do, go for it. I don't see any reason why you ought to be forced to take your gun home.

Great!

So guns not any more useful in deference than the basics (cheap basics I might add) can be classified as sport guns.

Nobody gives a shit how you 'classify' your guns my dude.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Well if they allow secure storage and that's what you want to do, go for it. I don't see any reason why you ought to be forced to take your gun home.

Great!

So guns not any more useful in deference than the basics (cheap basics I might add) can be classified as sport guns.

Because what I’m trying to do.

Is separate guns in to useful adpnd not useful.
Not useful are only for sport.

While useful could be hunting.
And self defense.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Bottom left.

This is like the fifth time you've copy and pasted that link, if you don't have anything to add I don't know what you expect this time.

It has the nations you were asking about.

[Telconi]

This is like the fifth time you've copy and pasted that link, if you don't have anything to add I don't know what you expect this time.

It has the nations you were asking about.

They're not like us though, all of those nations have far fewer guns in private hands.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

It has the nations you were asking about.

They're not like us though, all of those nations have far fewer guns in private hands.

Yes.
Proving that more guns = more death.

[Bromagia]

Unfortunately those snake shot rounds are stupid expensive, at least where I live. It's like 13 bucks for a pack of 10.

Plus, those are only good for revolvers. Semi autos can't cycle them, iirc.

Best thing is to leave the rattlers be unless they're too close to your house, threating your animals, or you need a dope guitar strap.

How many snakes you got ?

Not many. It's a reasonable enough number that any given time I step outside I could run into one but probably won't unless I go trudging in the brush, which I do. Unless you mean "how many skins have I got", in which case I have a few. Not likely to get any more, either. The Missus would rather I not pursue highly venomous snakes out in the hills alone. Go figure.

More concerning for me, though, are the coyotes, bobcats, badgers, weasels, skunks, and the odd cougar wandering down from the mountains. I have 3 dogs, 2 goats (more very soon), around 40 meat rabbits and 20 laying hens, you see. Predators are a huge concern for me. Luckily, I have guns.

Trusting a study on gun deaths from Giffords is like trusting a study on the health effects of tobacco from Philip Morris.

Then what do you think would be a fair source that shows all the data (not cherry picked stuff)

I'm not sure I've seen studies from either side that I have complete faith in. Any that count suicides and justifiable homicides alongside criminal jomicides without contextualizing are fucking absolutely uncredible, though. Giffords has put out that kind of crap before.

There's no reason to keep a recreational gun on the range, either.

Why.
It’s too dangerous to keep in the mix.

Based on what? My dogs cause me more danger than my guns. I trip on the fuckers every day.