2019-2020 US Election Megathread III: Biden VS Biden

[Telconi]

I mean, plenty of people jumped on that #notmyoresident nonsense.

That doesn't mean people think the election was legally illegitimate, it means "this asshole doesn't speak for me as an American."

Well that's a given.

[Idzequitch]

So now we've got outlets arguing that the election is an illegitimate and undemocratic coup if Trump loses.

If they won't accept his loss, why should we be willing to accept his victory?

At this point it sounds like whoever fires the last shot will be seen by future generations as in the right unless it is succeeded by a government hated by future generations.

Not actually advocating not accepting election results, just making a point.

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

[Shrillland]

If they won't accept his loss, why should we be willing to accept his victory?

At this point it sounds like whoever fires the last shot will be seen by future generations as in the right unless it is succeeded by a government hated by future generations.

Not actually advocating not accepting election results, just making a point.

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

That remains to be seen, I'm afraid. As pessimistic as I am about the future of this country, I have to consider all possible scenarios, likely and unlikely, positive and negative. All I can say for sure is that I think the left's position on gun control is short-sighted.

[Vassenor]

If they won't accept his loss, why should we be willing to accept his victory?

At this point it sounds like whoever fires the last shot will be seen by future generations as in the right unless it is succeeded by a government hated by future generations.

Not actually advocating not accepting election results, just making a point.

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

Especially given how hard the GOP is trying to block bills intended to limit foreign interference in the elections.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Isn't Bernie a billionaire or at least a millionaire?

Apparently he's worth $2 million

People have this thing where we think that "billion" is just the next one up from "million". Our brains don't really handle numbers that big very well. Like, try to imagine a million ping pong balls. You just can't picture that in your mind the same way you can picture four ping pong balls. And because of this, we very often don't appreciate just how much money a billion dollars is relative to a million dollars. A billion dollars is one thousand million dollars. Bernie is two tenths of one percent of the way towards being a billionaire. It takes 500 Bernies to make one billionaire. So Bernie saying that billionaires shouldn't exist is not, as some might think, hypocritical.

It also has to be pointed out that Bernie is the poorest member of the Senate. Or he was before his book anyway.

[Idzequitch]

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

Especially given how hard the GOP is trying to block bills intended to limit foreign interference in the elections.

I'm not commenting on the legitimacy of any of the inevitable claims about the result of the 2020 election. Merely pointing out that they are, in fact, inevitable.

[Gormwood]

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

Especially given how hard the GOP is trying to block bills intended to limit foreign interference in the elections.

And it's on a cocky assumption that most if not all the foreign interference would be on their behalf.

[The Andromeda Archipelago]

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

So uh...

Should we just...Accept it if we lose?

I mean as a history buff and strategist(using the term very loosely), I have bad vibes about rebelling if we lose as a counter to their threat.

But like...

Oh dear...

Whichever side wins, it would have to be a clear and convincing victory.
And even then, there would be some complaining.
Obama won in 2008 by @8% and there were still some Republicans questioning his legitimacy. This was the biggest win in the 21st Century & even it was somehow supposedly illegitimate.

[Galloism]

So uh...

Should we just...Accept it if we lose?

I mean as a history buff and strategist(using the term very loosely), I have bad vibes about rebelling if we lose as a counter to their threat.

But like...

Oh dear...

Whichever side wins, it would have to be a clear and convincing victory.
And even then, there would be some complaining.
Obama won in 2008 by @8% and there were still some Republicans questioning his legitimacy. This was the biggest win in the 21st Century & even it was somehow supposedly illegitimate.

So it was the biggest win out of 2 elections?

[Shrillland]

Whichever side wins, it would have to be a clear and convincing victory.
And even then, there would be some complaining.
Obama won in 2008 by @8% and there were still some Republicans questioning his legitimacy. This was the biggest win in the 21st Century & even it was somehow supposedly illegitimate.

So...uhh...

Should we accept the results or not?
Pretty sure he'll go full dictator route by 2022.

I have no answer to that. If the people do vote for him, then they deserve what they get, as we deserve what we get when we vote for whomever runs against him.

[Gormwood]

I have no answer to that. If the people do vote for him, then they deserve what they get, as we deserve what we get when we vote for whomever runs against him.

Yeah...I kinda feel weird...

Historically, I know it's usually a bad idea, but also sometimes it's better to do it than regret it in hindsight.
Unsure what to do now.

Fucking twisted that people have to be convinced to vote an unqualified moron out of office because he feeds their collective animus towards the opposing party.

[Telconi]

Fucking twisted that people have to be convinced to vote an unqualified moron out of office because he feeds their collective animus towards the opposing party.

I just mean I don't know if we should accept the election results...

Should we?
Or should we rebel?

Ol' daddy Tel always said it was better to just fight out your differences than hold a grudge. Seemed to work well enough when I was a kid.

[Shrillland]

I just mean I don't know if we should accept the election results...

Should we?
Or should we rebel?

Ol' daddy Tel always said it was better to just fight out your differences than hold a grudge. Seemed to work well enough when I was a kid.

Surely, it's better to work out differences when possible...it's just not possible if we continue on our present course...I must say, before we return to the thread at hand, the future just depresses me utterly.

[Valrifell]

Whichever side wins, it would have to be a clear and convincing victory.
And even then, there would be some complaining.
Obama won in 2008 by @8% and there were still some Republicans questioning his legitimacy. This was the biggest win in the 21st Century & even it was somehow supposedly illegitimate.

So it was the biggest win out of 2 elections?

Well when you phrase it like that it almost doesn't sound impressive.

[Telconi]

Ol' daddy Tel always said it was better to just fight out your differences than hold a grudge. Seemed to work well enough when I was a kid.

Surely, it's better to work out differences when possible...it's just not possible if we continue on our present course...I must say, before we return to the thread at hand, the future just depresses me utterly.

Tell me about it, I brought a person into this world.

[Shrillland]

Surely, it's better to work out differences when possible...it's just not possible if we continue on our present course...I must say, before we return to the thread at hand, the future just depresses me utterly.

Tell me about it, I brought a person into this world.

If nothing else, you have someone and something to fight for that arguably means more than any cause, at least: A better future for your daughter.

[The Andromeda Archipelago]

Whichever side wins, it would have to be a clear and convincing victory.
And even then, there would be some complaining.
Obama won in 2008 by @8% and there were still some Republicans questioning his legitimacy. This was the biggest win in the 21st Century & even it was somehow supposedly illegitimate.

So it was the biggest win out of 2 elections?

As of now, it's the biggest out of 4.

The point is that even that win was somehow questioned.

[Galloism]

So it was the biggest win out of 2 elections?

As of now, it's the biggest out of 4.

The point is that even that win was somehow questioned.

Yes, but at the time,when the questioning took place, there were only 2.

[Northern Davincia]

Especially given how hard the GOP is trying to block bills intended to limit foreign interference in the elections.

And it's on a cocky assumption that most if not all the foreign interference would be on their behalf.

How do the bills limit interference and why would they be effective?

[Gormwood]

And it's on a cocky assumption that most if not all the foreign interference would be on their behalf.

How do the bills limit interference and why would they be effective?

Funding cybersecurity efforts for one.

[Teachian]

Let's just be honest though. Can anyone think of a potential situation where Trump accepts a loss in 2020 and there's a peaceful transition of power in January 2021? Or a situation where Trump wins and the Democrats don't claim that our elections were interfered with again?

I hate to point this out, but a large portion of people refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election has been an inevitable outcome ever since Trump won the election in 2016.

I physically cannot imagine Trump publicly admitting defeat. Whether he actually believes it's rigged, can't say, but I think he knows he wouldn't have support to "stay" in office. Though he'd probably appear on interviews from time to time, going "Not saying anything, but it's just weird that..."

If the Democrats lose, I'd say it's even more soul-searchy time than the last soul-searching, but I could see people feeling that it's rigged. Though I think I'd sympathize a little more if it's a really close race and EC decides it, or there's claims of interference.

It's pretty scary to think that no matter what, a lot of people's "reasonable" explanation for whoever loses is that the whole thing's rigged.

[Telconi]

Funding cybersecurity efforts for one.

Not funding cybersecurity sounds almost like treason for not protecting the USA, albeit symbolically not a law, at the very least anti-patriotic.

"Not funding security bills is treason, also physical border security is bad"

[Idzequitch]

As of now, it's the biggest out of 4.

The point is that even that win was somehow questioned.

Yes, but at the time,when the questioning took place, there were only 2.

It's also still on par with the 8% and 6% margins of victory Clinton managed, as well as the 8% margin that Bush the 1st won by. So even if you don't look at this millennium in isolation, there was very little reason to be suspicious of the 2008 election.

[The Andromeda Archipelago]

As of now, it's the biggest out of 4.

The point is that even that win was somehow questioned.

Yes, but at the time,when the questioning took place, there were only 2.

But now, after four elections, it still stands as the most convincing of the four... and it still wasn't a big enough win to ensure Obama's legitimacy in some Republican circles.

The next election would have to be pretty convincing to even be considered legitimate by all sides, no matter who wins.

[Telconi]

Yes, but at the time,when the questioning took place, there were only 2.

But now, after four elections, it still stands as the most convincing of the four... and it still wasn't a big enough win to ensure Obama's legitimacy in some Republican circles.

The next election would have to be pretty convincing to even be considered legitimate by all sides, no matter who wins.

It's got nothing to do with how convincing the election is.