2019-2020 US Election Megathread III: Biden VS Biden

[Kowani]

I didn’t mind Steyer. He surprised me.

Are you sure he didn't just hypnotize you?

Mostly.

[Bombadil]

Did climate change feature as largely as it does in the minds of the electorate in this debate?

Can I assume no.. again?

[Kowani]

Did climate change feature as largely as it does in the minds of the electorate in this debate?

Can I assume no.. again?

You assume correctly.

[South Odreria 2]

Sanders did very well, Warren handled the heat, Biden will keep slidin, and this is probably the end for Tulsi. The Hawaii slasher was off her game tonight, her ambush of Warren seemed lazy and predictable. Luck runs out I guess.

[Page]

Well, and permitting parents to mutilate their boy childrens' genitals, something they can never take back regarding their own bodies.

Drafting has also historically included non consensual medical experimentation, btw.

True. War is a different animal though.

Is it though?

The 13th Amendment says: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Conscription is certainly a kind of involuntary servitude. It's hardly a stretch to argue that the 13th Amendment prohibits being forced to join the military against one's will, unless one is sentenced to do so after being convicted of a crime.

The Selective Service System itself is not a draft but it facilitates the draft. I think if the draft is brought back one would have a compelling case that they are being forced into involuntary servitude.

And others might too say that war is a different animal, but as there is nothing written in the constitution to back that up, then I'd say the 13th Amendment in its current form provides a right to not be drafted.

[Pacomia]

I didn’t mind Steyer. He surprised me.

Are you sure he didn't just hypnotize you?

Does it matter? Steyer is the One True God. He is only sharing his enlightment.

In all seriousness, though, I also thought Steyer did better than i initially imagined. He’s an okay speaker. I like him.

Starting to gravitate towards Buttigieg.

[Blargoblarg]

Did climate change feature as largely as it does in the minds of the electorate in this debate?

Can I assume no.. again?

Bernie brought it up a couple times, but other than that it was barely talked about.

[Blargoblarg]

After watching the debate, I think Bernie did well even though the moderators didn't call on him much. Biden did surprisingly better than I expected. Warren did ok, though it annoyed me how many times she didn't answer the questions asked her. Gabbard did poorly, I expected her to do better. Harris, Buttigieg, and surprisingly to me Klobuchar had a few good moments. The rest were meh to me.

[Kowani]

After watching the debate, I think Bernie did well even though the moderators didn't call on him much. Biden did surprisingly better than I expected. Warren did ok, though it annoyed me how many times she didn't answer the questions asked her. Gabbard did poorly, I expected her to do better. Harris, Buttigieg, and surprisingly to me Klobuchar had a few good moments. The rest were meh to me.

Considering it was Steyer’s first time, I think he did pretty good.

[Blargoblarg]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib to endorse Bernie Sanders for president

[Ifreann]

Oh look, Harris is trying to get Trump banned from Twitter and forcing Warren to embrace her position. She's desperate. Besides, it's Twitter's Choice, not the government or a President, to ban someone from Social Media.

Banning Trump from Twitter might be the best policy proposal I've heard from a Democratic candidate.

[The East Marches II]

Oh look, Harris is trying to get Trump banned from Twitter and forcing Warren to embrace her position. She's desperate. Besides, it's Twitter's Choice, not the government or a President, to ban someone from Social Media.

Banning Trump from Twitter might be the best policy proposal I've heard from a Democratic candidate.

Won't it help Trump's polling though???

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

True. War is a different animal though.

Is it though?

The 13th Amendment says: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Conscription is certainly a kind of involuntary servitude. It's hardly a stretch to argue that the 13th Amendment prohibits being forced to join the military against one's will, unless one is sentenced to do so after being convicted of a crime.

The Selective Service System itself is not a draft but it facilitates the draft. I think if the draft is brought back one would have a compelling case that they are being forced into involuntary servitude.

And others might too say that war is a different animal, but as there is nothing written in the constitution to back that up, then I'd say the 13th Amendment in its current form provides a right to not be drafted.

You have a point here, but the constitution also allows Congress to raise and support Armies which could be argued allows for conscription, so it’s a kinda legal murky area.

[Zurkerx]

After watching the debate, I think Bernie did well even though the moderators didn't call on him much. Biden did surprisingly better than I expected. Warren did ok, though it annoyed me how many times she didn't answer the questions asked her. Gabbard did poorly, I expected her to do better. Harris, Buttigieg, and surprisingly to me Klobuchar had a few good moments. The rest were meh to me.

Bernie was in the Top 5 in terms of speaking time. While not as much as say Biden or Warren, he did do well. Not that matters, he's going to get a trio of endorsements anyway from the Squad, which is no surprise to begin with.

[Loben The 2nd]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib to endorse Bernie Sanders for president

Can’t wait for the pitfall.

[Miami Shores]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib to endorse Bernie Sanders for president

Can’t wait for the pitfall.

It figures a socialist endorsing a socialist lol.

[Ifreann]

Bernie also endorsed by ...Bill O'Reilly? What the fuck is happening?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Bernie also endorsed by ...Bill O'Reilly? What the fuck is happening?

OH MY GOD!!

Did... did O'Reilly just...

[Idzequitch]

The Internets seem to largely disagree on who won the 4th Dem Debate, so let me just muddy the waters a little more with my opinions.

Amy Klobuchar: In a last gasp attempt to become an actual factor in this primary, Klobuchar actually hit some good points, overcame her smug personality, and made some mildly effective jabs against the progressives and Warren in general. I doubt it's enough to bring her to true relevance, but hey, props for a solid debate.

Pete Buttigieg: A new side of Mayor Pete came out tonight. He had the most successful jab against Warren, and he absolutely shut down Gabbard. I don't think he scored points in the scuffle with O'Rourke, but he came out swinging to some real effect, and for the first time seemed to truly take himself seriously. Already a very sensible debater, he makes the most compelling argument for the public option, and I think he's positioned himself to siphon some of Biden's faltering supporters.

Elizabeth Warren: Warren was clearly treated as the frontrunner, and that's a positive for her on its own. She failed to respond to the initial Mayor Pete attacks, but after that, she dominated speaking time, and ably defended herself from other blows that were sent her way. She speaks in a way that's relatable, she gets her point across, and I think we'll continue to see her poll numbers rise, at the expense of Biden and maybe also Bernie.

Cory Booker: It's tempting to put Booker as a winner, but the reality is that Booker did the same thing in this debate as he has in every other debate. He was engaging, charming even. He was funny, sharp, passionate. But he doesn't generate memorable moments, and manages to not stand out, even though he debates better than many of the others.

Bernie Sanders: Lots of people directly challenged Warren. Bernie wasn't one of them. It almost feels like he and Warren are the same candidate. They're certainly fighting for the same voters. I hoped to see Bernie do something to distance himself, distinguish himself, from Warren. He didn't do that, and it seems that Warren is getting more support out of this arrangement than Sanders is. In my mind, it's almost impossible for Sanders and Warren to both come out of the same debate as "Winners" and Elizabeth won this round.

Beto O'Rourke
Andrew Yang
Julian Castro
Tom Steyer

Joe Biden: Don't get me wrong, Biden wasn't bad. In fact this may have been his best debate so far. It just wasn't enough when he was the candidate with the most to lose. It seems inevitable now that Biden will be overtaken by Warren (as some polls suggest has already happened). Perhaps Sanders too. And who knows how far he could actually slide. It just seems like Joe isn't as sharp as he once was, he sidesteps a whole lot of questions, and doesn't make as compelling an argument against the progressives as Buttigieg, or even Klobuchar. His name recognition as VP can only take him so far, and I've seen no indication of Biden being able to advance his candidacy any further than that.

Kamala Harris: Harris is still chasing the ghost of Debate #1, and this was another failure to recapture that magic. She tries to get the sound bites in, but they seem to fall flat. She structured her attack on Warren much like the one that was so effective against Biden, but when the subject was as petty as Trump's Twitter account, it didn't actually carry any weight. I suspect Harris' poll numbers will continue to decline, and she may even be in danger of falling into the muddled mess at the bottom of the polls.

Tulsi Gabbard: Oof. Gabbard had no energy, no enthusiasm, and got majorly called out. Frankly Gabbard sounded like a robot, her assertion of a regime change war was baseless, her attacks on Mayor Pete were as dead as her campaign, and her weird attempt to insert her own targeted questions into the debate just made her look silly. There are a lot of people who should probably just drop out of the race, but I think this debate put Tulsi at the top of that list.

[Miami Shores]

Bernie also endorsed by ...Bill O'Reilly? What the fuck is happening?

I think Bill Oreilly was just being sarcastic lol.

[Miami Shores]

Bernie also endorsed by ...Bill O'Reilly? What the fuck is happening?

OH MY GOD!!

Did... did O'Reilly just...

I think Bill Oreilly was just being sarcastic lol.

[Zurkerx]

The Internets seem to largely disagree on who won the 4th Dem Debate, so let me just muddy the waters a little more with my opinions.

Amy Klobuchar: In a last gasp attempt to become an actual factor in this primary, Klobuchar actually hit some good points, overcame her smug personality, and made some mildly effective jabs against the progressives and Warren in general. I doubt it's enough to bring her to true relevance, but hey, props for a solid debate.

Pete Buttigieg: A new side of Mayor Pete came out tonight. He had the most successful jab against Warren, and he absolutely shut down Gabbard. I don't think he scored points in the scuffle with O'Rourke, but he came out swinging to some real effect, and for the first time seemed to truly take himself seriously. Already a very sensible debater, he makes the most compelling argument for the public option, and I think he's positioned himself to siphon some of Biden's faltering supporters.

Elizabeth Warren: Warren was clearly treated as the frontrunner, and that's a positive for her on its own. She failed to respond to the initial Mayor Pete attacks, but after that, she dominated speaking time, and ably defended herself from other blows that were sent her way. She speaks in a way that's relatable, she gets her point across, and I think we'll continue to see her poll numbers rise, at the expense of Biden and maybe also Bernie.

Cory Booker: It's tempting to put Booker as a winner, but the reality is that Booker did the same thing in this debate as he has in every other debate. He was engaging, charming even. He was funny, sharp, passionate. But he doesn't generate memorable moments, and manages to not stand out, even though he debates better than many of the others.

Bernie Sanders: Lots of people directly challenged Warren. Bernie wasn't one of them. It almost feels like he and Warren are the same candidate. They're certainly fighting for the same voters. I hoped to see Bernie do something to distance himself, distinguish himself, from Warren. He didn't do that, and it seems that Warren is getting more support out of this arrangement than Sanders is. In my mind, it's almost impossible for Sanders and Warren to both come out of the same debate as "Winners" and Elizabeth won this round.

Beto O'Rourke
Andrew Yang
Julian Castro
Tom Steyer

Joe Biden: Don't get me wrong, Biden wasn't bad. In fact this may have been his best debate so far. It just wasn't enough when he was the candidate with the most to lose. It seems inevitable now that Biden will be overtaken by Warren (as some polls suggest has already happened). Perhaps Sanders too. And who knows how far he could actually slide. It just seems like Joe isn't as sharp as he once was, he sidesteps a whole lot of questions, and doesn't make as compelling an argument against the progressives as Buttigieg, or even Klobuchar. His name recognition as VP can only take him so far, and I've seen no indication of Biden being able to advance his candidacy any further than that.

Kamala Harris: Harris is still chasing the ghost of Debate #1, and this was another failure to recapture that magic. She tries to get the sound bites in, but they seem to fall flat. She structured her attack on Warren much like the one that was so effective against Biden, but when the subject was as petty as Trump's Twitter account, it didn't actually carry any weight. I suspect Harris' poll numbers will continue to decline, and she may even be in danger of falling into the muddled mess at the bottom of the polls.

Tulsi Gabbard: Oof. Gabbard had no energy, no enthusiasm, and got majorly called out. Frankly Gabbard sounded like a robot, her assertion of a regime change war was baseless, her attacks on Mayor Pete were as dead as her campaign, and her weird attempt to insert her own targeted questions into the debate just made her look silly. There are a lot of people who should probably just drop out of the race, but I think this debate put Tulsi at the top of that list.

I would argue that O'Rourke deserves to be in the loser column: he didn't answer his questions and was schooled on guns by Buttigieg. I would say Yang deserves to be in the Meh Section although it's understandable why he's a non-factor. I disagree on how much Buttigieg got on O'Rourke in terms of guns: he was quite effective and put O'Rourke, who has made guns one of his biggest talking points, to shame. Buttigieg can definitely steal from Biden but Warren will steal more from the rest of the pack. I'll also note that Sanders will be getting the "Squad Endorsement" today, which will give him new life. Not to say he won't be the nominee, I highly doubt he will but he'll be kicking a little longer.

[Miami Shores]

So right now who do you leftists think will be the Democratic Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees?

[Juristonia]

I would argue that O'Rourke deserves to be in the loser column: he didn't answer his questions and was schooled on guns by Buttigieg. I would say Yang deserves to be in the Meh Section although it's understandable why he's a non-factor. I disagree on how much Buttigieg got on O'Rourke in terms of guns: he was quite effective and put O'Rourke, who has made guns one of his biggest talking points, to shame. Buttigieg can definitely steal from Biden but Warren will steal more from the rest of the pack. I'll also note that Sanders will be getting the "Squad Endorsement" today, which will give him new life. Not to say he won't be the nominee, I highly doubt he will but he'll be kicking a little longer.

I haven't been a big fan of Buttigieg so far, but he definitely shut O'Rourke down well.

The best thing Sanders can do at this point is get as much support as possible and then drag it all in to the Warren camp.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I would argue that O'Rourke deserves to be in the loser column: he didn't answer his questions and was schooled on guns by Buttigieg. I would say Yang deserves to be in the Meh Section although it's understandable why he's a non-factor. I disagree on how much Buttigieg got on O'Rourke in terms of guns: he was quite effective and put O'Rourke, who has made guns one of his biggest talking points, to shame. Buttigieg can definitely steal from Biden but Warren will steal more from the rest of the pack. I'll also note that Sanders will be getting the "Squad Endorsement" today, which will give him new life. Not to say he won't be the nominee, I highly doubt he will but he'll be kicking a little longer.

O'Rourke isn't trying to win imo. He's there solely to shift the Overton window on guns and if polling is to be believed it's working. Iirc a majority of Dems now support confiscation.