[POLL] What is your race? Sept 2019 edition

[Rojava Free State]

Afghanistan is in South Asia.

You don't say

Actually I think it's in central Asia

[Kowani]

Afghanistan is in South Asia.

You don't say

They’re complaining about the poll.

[Cekoviu]

You don't say

Actually I think it's in central Asia

I'd argue that part of it is in central Asia and part is in South Asia. The bottom areas is too far south to reasonably be considered part of central Asia.

You don't say

They’re complaining about the poll.

o

[Saiwania]

If defining "good" as "light-skinned," as you do, but that's so circular as to be less useful than useless.

You interpret me wrong. What counts in my eyes is if the base race doesn't change. A Black person shouldn't want a prospective child to be lighter than they are. Just as a lighter skinned person shouldn't want a darker skinned child than they are.

It is bad for a White man to get an Asian woman pregnant, but at least in that situation- the offspring has a chance to look Asian anyways because chances are, they'll still get the slanted eyes and the Black hair. But if an Asian women got pregnant from a Black man, the child will obviously look more Black than anything else.

[Cekoviu]

If defining "good" as "light-skinned," as you do, but that's so circular as to be less useful than useless.

You interpret me wrong. What counts in my eyes is if the base race doesn't change. A Black person shouldn't want a prospective child to be lighter than they are. Just as a lighter skinned person shouldn't want a darker skinned child than they are.

Why?

[Major-Tom]

If defining "good" as "light-skinned," as you do, but that's so circular as to be less useful than useless.

You interpret me wrong. What counts in my eyes is if the base race doesn't change. A Black person shouldn't want a prospective child to be lighter than they are. Just as a lighter skinned person shouldn't want a darker skinned child than they are.

It is bad for a White man to get an Asian woman pregnant, but at least in that situation- the offspring has a chance to look Asian anyways because chances are, they'll still get the slanted eyes and the Black hair. But if an Asian women got pregnant from a Black man, the child will obviously look more Black than anything else.

What barely comprehensible word salad did I just stumble upon? Who cares about the skin tone of someone's hypothetical kid, so long as the kid is raised right, then all is good.

[Soleos]

If you include white passing Latinos as "majority culture", then yes.

White Passing Persians or Levantines don't get to have the privilege of hiding their identity (and in turn, unable to escape prejudices) in the same manner a White Passing Cuban can be treated/seen as Iberian. And in many cases, White Latinos have way too much in common with White Americans they're practically just White people.

I wouldn't say white passing latinos are considered white. We got plenty of them in Michigan and people still view them as hispanics. Much of my family can pass As Italians who are technically white, but they're still not considered to be the same As your average scotch-irish or English american. As for white passing levantines, there was a time before 9/11 when they were seen as white people, but then bin Laden put an end to that. At day's end, white American means most but not all people of European descent

Btw how can white passing Arabs not hide their identity? If you're a Lebanese person with red hair and you don't wear a burqa or middle eastern clothes then it's gonna be hard to tell that you aren't white

It's easier to pass off as a person from Valencia if your surname is Gonzalez, or, like many Latin Americans, have Germanic sounding surnames than it is for a guy whose surname is "Khan" or "Yousefi" to pass off as French or Italian despite having red hair. They'll get the golden treatment compared to Asian-Americans and less-European looking Latinos, sure, but compared to White Passing Latinos? No.

Not to mention MENA Conservatives are less cringe than White Latino conservatives, who you wouldn't tell are of Mexican or Costa Rican descent until they said so. MENA Conservatives appear less, less, less, less, less, less, less, less theocratic than White Latino Conservatives who practically agree with Confederate flag waving Conservative White American on a Christian Sharia Law hence why they're practically White Americans who believe education is Marxist indoctrination camps at this point; like Irish and Italians weren't white until they've assimilated despite being of European origin.

I almost guarantee you I wouldn't know a White-passing Jose Guerra is Hispanic Conservative if he was to have red eyes, beat his chest, and scream like a tormented cat that I'm an entity of Satan himself for being LGBTQ that support abortions, universal healthcare that also include HRT/SRS, and support helping those evil godless Muslim refugees from Yemen and Syria followed by using my sexual/gender identity as an excuse to why I should let said refugees die.

[Cekoviu]

I wouldn't say white passing latinos are considered white. We got plenty of them in Michigan and people still view them as hispanics. Much of my family can pass As Italians who are technically white, but they're still not considered to be the same As your average scotch-irish or English american. As for white passing levantines, there was a time before 9/11 when they were seen as white people, but then bin Laden put an end to that. At day's end, white American means most but not all people of European descent

Btw how can white passing Arabs not hide their identity? If you're a Lebanese person with red hair and you don't wear a burqa or middle eastern clothes then it's gonna be hard to tell that you aren't white

It's easier to pass off as a person from Valencia if your surname is Gonzalez, or, like many Latin Americans, have Germanic sounding surnames than it is for a guy whose surname is "Khan" or "Yousefi" to pass off as French or Italian despite having red hair. They'll get the golden treatment compared to Asian-Americans and less-European looking Latinos, sure, but compared to White Passing Latinos? No.

Not to mention MENA Conservatives are less cringe than White Latino conservatives, who you wouldn't tell are of Mexican or Costa Rican descent until they said so. MENA Conservatives appear less, less, less, less, less, less, less, less theocratic than White Latino Conservatives who practically agree with Confederate flag waving Conservative White American on a Christian Sharia Law hence why they're practically White Americans who believe education is Marxist indoctrination camps at this point; like Irish and Italians weren't white until they've assimilated despite being of European origin.

I almost guarantee you I wouldn't know a White-passing Jose Guerra is Hispanic Conservative if he was to have red eyes, beat his chest, and scream like a tormented cat that I'm an entity of Satan himself for being LGBTQ that support abortions, universal healthcare that also include HRT/SRS, and support helping those evil godless Muslim refugees from Yemen and Syria followed by using my sexual/gender identity as an excuse to why I should let said refugees die.

Whoa, I think you managed to out-word salad even Saiwania.

[HUElavia]

I'm Hispanic, Mother is Hispanic-White, Father is Hispanic-Latino

[Bear Stearns]

European isn’t necessarily the same as white. It’s like a Venn diagram. The weirdest thing is that some Asians are actually paler than the palest Europeans, and they don’t count as white, even though their skin colour is white. No, not pink, or beige, like a white European. Literally white. Like, the same colour as paper. So seems like whiteness could be geographical, even if it’s only Northern Europeans who have it.

White in america basically means you don't stand out from the majority culture.

No, it has a rather technical definition, even going back to the colonial days when citizenship laws were racial. It has basically always meant people of European descent, and this was codified in several court cases (Indian people tried to claim they were white because they're of Indo-Aryan descent and the Supreme Court told them that white means European).

The whole "Irish and Italians weren't considered white" thing was mostly a myth.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

Also is Hispanic really a separate category? Like wouldn't Spanish and Portguese people be considered Hispanic? But also white?

There’s a reason I put “Latino” and not “Hispanic” in my poll.

They should be considered as such if they can't pass as White visually speaking. What matters in the long run, is whether their genetics will give their baby Whiter or darker skin. It is no use to the White race is the offspring will be darker than before because of their ancestry. Just as it'd be no good for an Asian if a baby became darker upon conception because of a Black sexual partner.

when you say dark, how dark are you talking? Cause there are pure blooded Europeans will dark skin my guy. Half the sicilians in my area have the same skin tone as a light skin black man.

You yourself once said race isn't about physical appearance alone, which was why in your eyes a Syrian who looks literally the same as a Greek is not white.

Off topic, but I once had a Lyft driver in college who looked ethnically ambiguous- couldn’t tell if he was a super tan Italian American or mixed Italian + Puerto Rican or something- but in any case he definitely did not look stereotypically “white”. He made sure he was out of earshot from the upper-class white frat boy/finance types who I shared the ride with before going, “it might not be politically correct to say, but if you were in NYC in the 80s there were some places it just wasn’t safe to be if you weren’t black or brown.” I don’t remember how we got to the topic, but it was a pretty thought-provoking Lyft ride.

[Rojava Free State]

I wouldn't say white passing latinos are considered white. We got plenty of them in Michigan and people still view them as hispanics. Much of my family can pass As Italians who are technically white, but they're still not considered to be the same As your average scotch-irish or English american. As for white passing levantines, there was a time before 9/11 when they were seen as white people, but then bin Laden put an end to that. At day's end, white American means most but not all people of European descent

Btw how can white passing Arabs not hide their identity? If you're a Lebanese person with red hair and you don't wear a burqa or middle eastern clothes then it's gonna be hard to tell that you aren't white

It's easier to pass off as a person from Valencia if your surname is Gonzalez, or, like many Latin Americans, have Germanic sounding surnames than it is for a guy whose surname is "Khan" or "Yousefi" to pass off as French or Italian despite having red hair. They'll get the golden treatment compared to Asian-Americans and less-European looking Latinos, sure, but compared to White Passing Latinos? No.

Not to mention MENA Conservatives are less cringe than White Latino conservatives, who you wouldn't tell are of Mexican or Costa Rican descent until they said so. MENA Conservatives appear less, less, less, less, less, less, less, less theocratic than White Latino Conservatives who practically agree with Confederate flag waving Conservative White American on a Christian Sharia Law hence why they're practically White Americans who believe education is Marxist indoctrination camps at this point; like Irish and Italians weren't white until they've assimilated despite being of European origin.

I almost guarantee you I wouldn't know a White-passing Jose Guerra is Hispanic Conservative if he was to have red eyes, beat his chest, and scream like a tormented cat that I'm an entity of Satan himself for being LGBTQ that support abortions, universal healthcare that also include HRT/SRS, and support helping those evil godless Muslim refugees from Yemen and Syria followed by using my sexual/gender identity as an excuse to why I should let said refugees die.

Well yeah if you tell people you're named Mohammed zaire then they're gonna know you're arabic. As for the part about white conservative latinos, I would say even they are still racialized as latinos. In fact, they're the right wing's go to when they get called racist. "We aren't racist, we have plenty of people of color in our party like ted cruz." And as for MENA conservatives, they're few and far between nowadays, considering that the Republican party's Islamaphobia has basically morphed into full on arabophobia, with even non Muslim Arabs being violently attacked and harassed. If you're Arab american, the modern Republican party of trump is basically your enemy.

and btw how does anyone get the golden treatment compared to Asian americans? They're one of the most successful groups in america and have a higher average household income than white folks. I don't think anyone could get the golden treatment compared to them, especially the people that everyone keeps associating with terrorists

[Nouveau Yathrib]

Afghanistan is in South Asia.

The US government actually says it begins at the Khyber Pass, but I understand the dominant ethnic group is Afghanistan is mostly concentrated in Pakistan and is native to the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region.

[Rojava Free State]

Also is Hispanic really a separate category? Like wouldn't Spanish and Portguese people be considered Hispanic? But also white?

There’s a reason I put “Latino” and not “Hispanic” in my poll.

when you say dark, how dark are you talking? Cause there are pure blooded Europeans will dark skin my guy. Half the sicilians in my area have the same skin tone as a light skin black man.

You yourself once said race isn't about physical appearance alone, which was why in your eyes a Syrian who looks literally the same as a Greek is not white.

Off topic, but I once had a Lyft driver in college who looked ethnically ambiguous- couldn’t tell if he was a super tan Italian American or mixed Italian + Puerto Rican or something- but in any case he definitely did not look stereotypically “white”. He made sure he was out of earshot from the upper-class white frat boy/finance types who I shared the ride with before going, “it might not be politically correct to say, but if you were in NYC in the 80s there were some places it just wasn’t safe to be if you weren’t black or brown.” I don’t remember how we got to the topic, but it was a pretty thought-provoking Lyft ride.

A lot of Italians are very dark

[Rojava Free State]

White in america basically means you don't stand out from the majority culture.

No, it has a rather technical definition, even going back to the colonial days when citizenship laws were racial. It has basically always meant people of European descent, and this was codified in several court cases (Indian people tried to claim they were white because they're of Indo-Aryan descent and the Supreme Court told them that white means European).

The whole "Irish and Italians weren't considered white" thing was mostly a myth.

It wasn't a myth at all. Irish people were often theorized to be a missing link between black and white and italians were often considered a racialized other as well. Whiteness has definitely changed definitions in america. I know nowadays it means European but that wasn't always the case in this country. You're applying a 21st century lense to the 1900s

Even today it doesn't mean all people of European descent. There are people who are European in heritage who still aren't white in america

[USS Monitor]

I'm a 19th century iron steamship. Ironclad Master Race!

[Marxist Germany]

I'm a 19th century iron steamship. Ironclad Master Race!

I digress. Submarines are the master race!

[USS Monitor]

I'm a 19th century iron steamship. Ironclad Master Race!

I digress. Submarines are the master race!

Submarines are cowards, always hiding under the water.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

There’s a reason I put “Latino” and not “Hispanic” in my poll.



Off topic, but I once had a Lyft driver in college who looked ethnically ambiguous- couldn’t tell if he was a super tan Italian American or mixed Italian + Puerto Rican or something- but in any case he definitely did not look stereotypically “white”. He made sure he was out of earshot from the upper-class white frat boy/finance types who I shared the ride with before going, “it might not be politically correct to say, but if you were in NYC in the 80s there were some places it just wasn’t safe to be if you weren’t black or brown.” I don’t remember how we got to the topic, but it was a pretty thought-provoking Lyft ride.

A lot of Italians are very dark

That wasn’t what made me question his ethnic background. I’ve met NYC Italians who were darker than him. Something about his facial features looked off for Southern Europeans. Looking back at his Lyft driver mugshot I’d say has a vague Native American or Caribbean vibe.

[Rojava Free State]

A lot of Italians are very dark

That wasn’t what made me question his ethnic background. I’ve met NYC Italians who were darker than him. Something about his facial features looked off for Southern Europeans. Looking back at his Lyft driver mugshot I’d say has a vague Native American or Caribbean vibe.

Maybe he was part black or something

[Bear Stearns]

No, it has a rather technical definition, even going back to the colonial days when citizenship laws were racial. It has basically always meant people of European descent, and this was codified in several court cases (Indian people tried to claim they were white because they're of Indo-Aryan descent and the Supreme Court told them that white means European).

The whole "Irish and Italians weren't considered white" thing was mostly a myth.

It wasn't a myth at all. Irish people were often theorized to be a missing link between black and white and italians were often considered a racialized other as well.

I'm sure you're referring to this image:

This was a comedic cartoon from a satirical section of the magazine it was published in.

The Irish were considered foreign, Catholic invaders, and un-American, but they were always considered white, because if they weren't, then they'd legally be screwed.

Whiteness has definitely changed definitions in america. I know nowadays it means European but that wasn't always the case in this country. You're applying a 21st century lense to the 1900s

I'm applying the lense that the American government has used. The 1790 Naturalization Act limited naturalization to white people - Irish people were considered white and therefore granted citizenship. The Dredd Scott decision formally codified as only whites being US citizens. The Irish were counted as white and still remained citizens.

Southern segregationist governments also counted the Irish as white, and Italians too.

Despite historical prejudices agaisnt the Irish, US state and federal governments have always considered them white.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

I'm a 19th century iron steamship. Ironclad Master Race!

I digress. Submarines are the master race!

Brah, Teslas are the übermensch

[Rojava Free State]

It wasn't a myth at all. Irish people were often theorized to be a missing link between black and white and italians were often considered a racialized other as well.

I'm sure you're referring to this image:

This was a comedic cartoon from a satirical section of the magazine it was published in.

The Irish were considered foreign, Catholic invaders, and un-American, but they were always considered white, because if they weren't, then they'd legally be screwed.

Whiteness has definitely changed definitions in america. I know nowadays it means European but that wasn't always the case in this country. You're applying a 21st century lense to the 1900s

I'm applying the lense that the American government has used. The 1790 Naturalization Act limited naturalization to white people - Irish people were considered white and therefore granted citizenship. The Dredd Scott decision formally codified as only whites being US citizens. The Irish were counted as white and still remained citizens.

Southern segregationist governments also counted the Irish as white, and Italians too.

Despite historical prejudices agaisnt the Irish, US state and federal governments have always considered them white.

Arab Americans are also considered white under our current census. Are they socially considered white then? You understand that sometimes the legal definition of something and the colloquial definition differ, right? Being white in america in the 1800s was mainly limited to northern Europeans and while the Irish and italians were white enough to get into america, it didn't mean joe schmo on the street was gonna see them as fellow white people.

https://theundefeated.com/features/whit ... cceptable/

https://thecorrespondent.com/5185/how-d ... 5-8260d4a7

[Kowani]

I digress. Submarines are the master race!

Submarines are cowards, always hiding under the water.

I hear jealousy.

[Ghost Land]

No, it has a rather technical definition, even going back to the colonial days when citizenship laws were racial. It has basically always meant people of European descent, and this was codified in several court cases (Indian people tried to claim they were white because they're of Indo-Aryan descent and the Supreme Court told them that white means European).

The whole "Irish and Italians weren't considered white" thing was mostly a myth.

It wasn't a myth at all. Irish people were often theorized to be a missing link between black and white and italians were often considered a racialized other as well. Whiteness has definitely changed definitions in america. I know nowadays it means European but that wasn't always the case in this country. You're applying a 21st century lense to the 1900s

Even today it doesn't mean all people of European descent. There are people who are European in heritage who still aren't white in america

Such as? Most people in America don't define "white" like my dad; to most people I know, "white" and "European" are synonymous, and besides, on the US Census people from the Middle East and the "top row" of North Africa are considered white too.

Also, 700th post!