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Will the more moderate leftists ever awaken to the insidious, authoritarian group among them?

Yes, in time.
78
16%
No, they are too established in their views, and don't care enough.
191
39%
Unsure.
63
13%
No, because no one's trying to take away guns!
89
18%
Yes, and they will come around to agree with the far left in that guns should be banned!
68
14%
 
Total votes : 489
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Proctopeo
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Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:39 am

Gormwood wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Glass houses, Gauth.

Still not an excuse. :^]

Nice to know you admit to being guilty, like, all the time, I guess?
Not sure what your tactic is here.
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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:41 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Still not an excuse. :^]

Nice to know you admit to being guilty, like, all the time, I guess?
Not sure what your tactic is here.

Are you just here to needle Gormwood?
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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:42 am

Ifreann wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Nice to know you admit to being guilty, like, all the time, I guess?
Not sure what your tactic is here.

Are you just here to needle Gormwood?

I'm allowed to call out blatant hypocrisy and a blatant lack of self-awareness, Ifreann.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:49 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Are you just here to needle Gormwood?

I'm allowed to call out blatant hypocrisy and a blatant lack of self-awareness, Ifreann.

I'm sure you are, I'm just wondering if we can expect the thread to stay on topic or if you two are going to spend the next five pages toeing the line of flaming each other.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:51 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:How do you stop Antifa legally? You RICO them to take their associates money.

You can't RICO them, though.


Why not? They've committed Arson at least twice. Heck you could pull a motorcycle gang trick and eminent domain their logos and symbols then charge anyone using them with copyright infringement.

There's also Obstruction of Justice. Do it twice and it's a RICO offense.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal
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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:52 am

Ifreann wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I'm allowed to call out blatant hypocrisy and a blatant lack of self-awareness, Ifreann.

I'm sure you are, I'm just wondering if we can expect the thread to stay on topic or if you two are going to spend the next five pages toeing the line of flaming each other.

It likely won't. I don't intend to pursue such a fruitless goal.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:05 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You can't RICO them, though.


Why not? They've committed Arson at least twice. Heck you could pull a motorcycle gang trick and eminent domain their logos and symbols then charge anyone using them with copyright infringement.

There's also Obstruction of Justice. Do it twice and it's a RICO offense.

There's no criminal enterprise, there are no leaders ordering subordinates to commit crimes, there are no ill-gotten gains, or gains of any kind, and anyone so charged would get defended pro gratis by the ACLU or the like or would crowdfund legal fees.
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The Emerald Legion
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Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Why not? They've committed Arson at least twice. Heck you could pull a motorcycle gang trick and eminent domain their logos and symbols then charge anyone using them with copyright infringement.

There's also Obstruction of Justice. Do it twice and it's a RICO offense.

There's no criminal enterprise, there are no leaders ordering subordinates to commit crimes, there are no ill-gotten gains, or gains of any kind, and anyone so charged would get defended pro gratis by the ACLU or the like or would crowdfund legal fees.


You don't need leaders doing it. You just need to establish a pattern of activity. Look at what the RICO act actually does.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:13 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Still not an excuse. :^]

Nice to know you admit to being guilty, like, all the time, I guess?
Not sure what your tactic is here.


Pretty much. ''Rules for thee but not for me''
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Chernoslavia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Why not? They've committed Arson at least twice. Heck you could pull a motorcycle gang trick and eminent domain their logos and symbols then charge anyone using them with copyright infringement.

There's also Obstruction of Justice. Do it twice and it's a RICO offense.

There's no criminal enterprise, there are no leaders ordering subordinates to commit crimes, there are no ill-gotten gains, or gains of any kind, and anyone so charged would get defended pro gratis by the ACLU or the like or would crowdfund legal fees.


Lot's of antifa groups actually have leaders, I can't imagine anyone defending a bunch of pseudo-communist fucktards who assault people and vandalize property wherever they go.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:28 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:There's no criminal enterprise, there are no leaders ordering subordinates to commit crimes, there are no ill-gotten gains, or gains of any kind, and anyone so charged would get defended pro gratis by the ACLU or the like or would crowdfund legal fees.


You don't need leaders doing it. You just need to establish a pattern of activity. Look at what the RICO act actually does.

Among other things, allows leaders of a criminal syndicate to be charged for crimes they ordered their subordinates to carry out. But there are no leaders of antifa who could be so charged, so that element of the RICO Act couldn't be applied. It also allows potentially ill-gotten gains to be frozen pre-trial to stop confederates from running off with them. But there's no criminal enterprise here. There are no proceeds from any of these crimes, nor any antifa assets. And even if the personal assets of anyone arrested while wearing black were frozen, they'd pretty rapidly get free legal defence.

Plus I did say "just and fair application of the law".
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Libertas Omnium Maximus
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Posts: 609
Founded: May 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Libertas Omnium Maximus » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am

This about sums up the entire thread.
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Last edited by Libertas Omnium Maximus on Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
You don't need leaders doing it. You just need to establish a pattern of activity. Look at what the RICO act actually does.

Among other things, allows leaders of a criminal syndicate to be charged for crimes they ordered their subordinates to carry out. But there are no leaders of antifa who could be so charged, so that element of the RICO Act couldn't be applied. It also allows potentially ill-gotten gains to be frozen pre-trial to stop confederates from running off with them. But there's no criminal enterprise here. There are no proceeds from any of these crimes, nor any antifa assets. And even if the personal assets of anyone arrested while wearing black were frozen, they'd pretty rapidly get free legal defence.

Plus I did say "just and fair application of the law".


Again, some groups have leaders so RICO does apply to those particular groups.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
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Postby Gormwood » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:50 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Among other things, allows leaders of a criminal syndicate to be charged for crimes they ordered their subordinates to carry out. But there are no leaders of antifa who could be so charged, so that element of the RICO Act couldn't be applied. It also allows potentially ill-gotten gains to be frozen pre-trial to stop confederates from running off with them. But there's no criminal enterprise here. There are no proceeds from any of these crimes, nor any antifa assets. And even if the personal assets of anyone arrested while wearing black were frozen, they'd pretty rapidly get free legal defence.

Plus I did say "just and fair application of the law".


Again, some groups have leaders so RICO does apply to those particular groups.

So who's the Godfather of Antifa?
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:51 am

Gormwood wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Again, some groups have leaders so RICO does apply to those particular groups.

So who's the Godfather of Antifa?


Read the post again.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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The of Korea
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Posts: 187
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The of Korea » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:54 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Among other things, allows leaders of a criminal syndicate to be charged for crimes they ordered their subordinates to carry out. But there are no leaders of antifa who could be so charged, so that element of the RICO Act couldn't be applied. It also allows potentially ill-gotten gains to be frozen pre-trial to stop confederates from running off with them. But there's no criminal enterprise here. There are no proceeds from any of these crimes, nor any antifa assets. And even if the personal assets of anyone arrested while wearing black were frozen, they'd pretty rapidly get free legal defence.

Plus I did say "just and fair application of the law".


Again, some groups have leaders so RICO does apply to those particular groups.

maybe a few groups would qualify, but there are tons of groups and a new one could easily be formed.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:56 am

The of Korea wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Again, some groups have leaders so RICO does apply to those particular groups.

maybe a few groups would qualify, but there are tons of groups and a new one could easily be formed.


Unfortunately.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Greallemonsland
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Posts: 14
Founded: Apr 11, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greallemonsland » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am

Lot's of antifa groups actually have leaders, I can't imagine anyone defending a bunch of pseudo-communist fucktards who assault people and vandalize property wherever they go.


I can’t imagine anybody defending Antifa’s opposite, literal Nazis.
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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
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Postby Chernoslavia » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:02 am

Greallemonsland wrote:
Lot's of antifa groups actually have leaders, I can't imagine anyone defending a bunch of pseudo-communist fucktards who assault people and vandalize property wherever they go.


I can’t imagine anybody defending Antifa’s opposite, literal Nazis.


Good thing no one's defending them.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Top
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The Emerald Legion
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Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:14 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
You don't need leaders doing it. You just need to establish a pattern of activity. Look at what the RICO act actually does.

Among other things, allows leaders of a criminal syndicate to be charged for crimes they ordered their subordinates to carry out. But there are no leaders of antifa who could be so charged, so that element of the RICO Act couldn't be applied. It also allows potentially ill-gotten gains to be frozen pre-trial to stop confederates from running off with them. But there's no criminal enterprise here. There are no proceeds from any of these crimes, nor any antifa assets. And even if the personal assets of anyone arrested while wearing black were frozen, they'd pretty rapidly get free legal defence.

Plus I did say "just and fair application of the law".


Well there's that and how it turns patterns of relatively minor crimes into a much more serious crime which gets you 20 years in prison.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal
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Libertas Omnium Maximus
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Founded: May 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Libertas Omnium Maximus » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:24 am

Greallemonsland wrote:
Lot's of antifa groups actually have leaders, I can't imagine anyone defending a bunch of pseudo-communist fucktards who assault people and vandalize property wherever they go.


I can’t imagine anybody defending Antifa’s opposite, literal Nazis.


LOL. Imagine if it was just Nazis they attacked and harassed.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159117
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:27 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Among other things, allows leaders of a criminal syndicate to be charged for crimes they ordered their subordinates to carry out. But there are no leaders of antifa who could be so charged, so that element of the RICO Act couldn't be applied. It also allows potentially ill-gotten gains to be frozen pre-trial to stop confederates from running off with them. But there's no criminal enterprise here. There are no proceeds from any of these crimes, nor any antifa assets. And even if the personal assets of anyone arrested while wearing black were frozen, they'd pretty rapidly get free legal defence.

Plus I did say "just and fair application of the law".


Well there's that and how it turns patterns of relatively minor crimes into a much more serious crime which gets you 20 years in prison.

Into court cases that the defendant wins and goes home free.
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Conservative Districts
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Apr 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Districts » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:28 am

Redternetia wrote:It's an American capitalist city.


What exactly are you implying? It's almost like you're trying to turn the discussion against republicans and rightists. San Francisco's lawmakers consist mostly of leftists. I can guarantee you if republicans were in power, this never would've happened.
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Fahran
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19481
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:30 am

The Grims wrote:
Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Doesn't make them any less scum of the earth and less deserving of eradication via legislation/jail time.


And you wonder why people believe you to be unfit to own guns ?

"I believe the justice system should crack down on criminals."

"You're not fit to own guns."

Okay then.
"Then it was as if all the beauty of Ardha, devastating in its color and form and movement, recalled to him, more and more, the First Music, though reflected dimly. Thus Alnair wept bitterly, lamenting the notes which had begun to fade from his memory. He, who had composed the world's first poem upon spying a gazelle and who had played the world's first song upon encountering a dove perched upon a moringa, in beauty, now found only suffering and longing. Such it must be for all among the djinn, souls of flame and ash slowly dwindling to cinders in the elder days of the world."

- Song of the Fallen Star
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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:34 am

Fahran wrote:
The Grims wrote:
And you wonder why people believe you to be unfit to own guns ?

"I believe the justice system should crack down on criminals."

"You're not fit to own guns."

Okay then.

Is "eradication" the new "fnord"?
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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