SF declares NRA a terrorist organization

[Ryanasic]

I thought that SF stood for Sinn Fein, and I was wondering why a British political party would do that to an American organisation.
I think of the NRA as rather unsavoury, but "terrorist organisation" is taking it a bit far.

[Telconi]

To anyone who blames "the far-left" for gun control, let me give you this.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

― Karl Marx

Just because Marx said a thing doesn't mean people follow it. Collectivist thought and support of gun ownership are not necessarily linked. Kowani, who brags about being 0% capitalist, for example, is in this thread arguing against gun ownership.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

I thought that SF stood for Sinn Fein, and I was wondering why a British political party would do that to an American organisation.
I think of the NRA as rather unsavoury, but "terrorist organisation" is taking it a bit far.

I can already imagine Sinn Féin denouncing the NRA as a terrorist organization exploding into a international scandal and dispute.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

To anyone who blames "the far-left" for gun control, let me give you this.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

― Karl Marx

Just because Marx said a thing doesn't mean people follow it. Collectivist thought and support of gun ownership are not necessarily linked. Kowani, who brags about being 0% capitalist, for example, is in this thread arguing against gun ownership.

Marx is a very dominant figure on the left though, in fact his communist manifesto is the direct cause of innumerable revolutions and political upheavals across the globe, including the rise of social democracy and the welfare states, which had to implement major concessions to keep the working class from going far-left. And revolutions can't be waged when the state is given the carte blanche to seize your weaponry because you may be a "subversive opponent".

[Telconi]

Just because Marx said a thing doesn't mean people follow it. Collectivist thought and support of gun ownership are not necessarily linked. Kowani, who brags about being 0% capitalist, for example, is in this thread arguing against gun ownership.

Marx is a very dominant figure on the left though, in fact his communist manifesto is the direct cause of innumerable revolutions and political upheavals across the globe, including the rise of social democracy and the welfare states, which had to implement major concessions to keep the working class from going far-left. And revolutions can't be waged when the state is given the carte blanche to seize your weaponry because you may be a "subversive opponent".

And yet the very same people who by and large support leftward movement support disarmament. Certainly there are some far left fringe elements who support gun rights for the people, but they're ultimately steamrolled under party doctrine, or they separate themselves and support a third party.

[Proctopeo]

To anyone who blames "the far-left" for gun control, let me give you this.

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

― Karl Marx

Just because Marx said a thing doesn't mean people follow it. Collectivist thought and support of gun ownership are not necessarily linked. Kowani, who brags about being 0% capitalist, for example, is in this thread arguing against gun ownership.

That, and not all of the far left is Marxist.

[Hammer Britannia]

Just because Marx said a thing doesn't mean people follow it. Collectivist thought and support of gun ownership are not necessarily linked. Kowani, who brags about being 0% capitalist, for example, is in this thread arguing against gun ownership.

That, and not all of the far left is Marxist.

Trotskyism is superior

[The of Korea]

That, and not all of the far left is Marxist.

Trotskyism is superior

Marxism is actually

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Marx is a very dominant figure on the left though, in fact his communist manifesto is the direct cause of innumerable revolutions and political upheavals across the globe, including the rise of social democracy and the welfare states, which had to implement major concessions to keep the working class from going far-left. And revolutions can't be waged when the state is given the carte blanche to seize your weaponry because you may be a "subversive opponent".

And yet the very same people who by and large support leftward movement support disarmament. Certainly there are some far left fringe elements who support gun rights for the people, but they're ultimately steamrolled under party doctrine, or they separate themselves and support a third party.

Bold of you to think that the Democratic Party after Clinton is in any way "leftwing".

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Trotskyism is superior

Marxism is actually

Democratic confederalism shall triumph

[Telconi]

And yet the very same people who by and large support leftward movement support disarmament. Certainly there are some far left fringe elements who support gun rights for the people, but they're ultimately steamrolled under party doctrine, or they separate themselves and support a third party.

Bold of you to think that the Democratic Party after Clinton is in any way "leftwing".

"No true Scotsman Leftist" nonsense aside, it is though, it is the left party in the United States political system.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Bold of you to think that the Democratic Party after Clinton is in any way "leftwing".

"No true Scotsman Leftist" nonsense aside, it is though, it is the left party in the United States political system.

Ever heard of the New Democrats and Third Way? Yeah, they were definitely nowhere near centre-left, let alone socialist. And it isn't a "no true scotsman" when the Democrats are objectively opposed to social democracy and keynesian economics, not even mentioning their endorsement of neoliberalism (Also known as trickle-down economics and monetarism in the U.S.) and welfare privatization under Clinton. Next time you accuse me of using a NTS, point to a specific instance where I redefined a term to support my argument.

[The of Korea]

Bold of you to think that the Democratic Party after Clinton is in any way "leftwing".

"No true Scotsman Leftist" nonsense aside, it is though, it is the left party in the United States political system.

You know the american democratic party is largely neoliberal with a large portion of its congressman being new democrat or blue dog right?

[Telconi]

"No true Scotsman Leftist" nonsense aside, it is though, it is the left party in the United States political system.

Ever heard of the New Democrats and Third Way? Yeah, they were definitely nowhere near centre-left, let alone socialist. And it isn't a "no true scotsman" when the Democrats are objectively opposed to social democracy and keynesian economics, not even mentioning their endorsement of neoliberalism (Also known as trickle-down economics and monetarism in the U.S.) and welfare privatization under Clinton. Next time you accuse me of using a NTS, point to a specific instance where I redefined a term to support my argument.

You redefined "Left" in this context to mean Keynesian economics and social welfare. None of these things are necessary to be the left party, only that the party is more left.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Ever heard of the New Democrats and Third Way? Yeah, they were definitely nowhere near centre-left, let alone socialist. And it isn't a "no true scotsman" when the Democrats are objectively opposed to social democracy and keynesian economics, not even mentioning their endorsement of neoliberalism (Also known as trickle-down economics and monetarism in the U.S.) and welfare privatization under Clinton. Next time you accuse me of using a NTS, point to a specific instance where I redefined a term to support my argument.

You redefined "Left" in this context to mean Keynesian economics and social welfare. None of these things are necessary to be the left party, only that the other party is more left.

That's the whole point of the left though. Left-wing politicians explicitly support Keynesian economic management, social welfare, egalitarianism, and a representative form of governing, as seen below:

"Left-wing politics support social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[5]
The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[6] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime.

Use of the term "Left" became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[7] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century, usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[8] communism, anarchism and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[9] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[10] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements and environmental movements,[11][12] as well as a wide range of parties.[13][14][15] According to former professor of economics Barry Clark, "leftists claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated".[16]"

Economics
"Leftist economic beliefs range from Keynesian economics and the welfare state through industrial democracy and the social market to nationalization of the economy and central planning,[27] to the anarcho-syndicalist advocacy of a council- and assembly-based self-managed anarchist communism. During the Industrial Revolution, leftists supported trade unions. At the beginning of the 20th century, many leftists advocated strong government intervention in the economy.[28] Leftists continue to criticize what they perceive as the exploitative nature of globalization, the "race to the bottom" and unjust lay-offs. In the last quarter of the 20th century, the belief that government (ruling in accordance with the interests of the people) ought to be directly involved in the day-to-day workings of an economy declined in popularity amongst the center-left, especially social democrats who became influenced by "Third Way" ideology.

Other leftists believe in Marxian economics, which are based on the economic theories of Karl Marx. Some distinguish Marx's economic theories from his political philosophy, arguing that Marx's approach to understanding the economy is independent of his advocacy of revolutionary socialism or his belief in the inevitability of proletarian revolution.[29][30] Marxian economics does not exclusively rely upon Marx, but it draws from a range of Marxist and non-Marxist sources. The "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "workers' state" are terms used by some Marxists, particularly Leninists and Marxist–Leninists, to describe what they see as a temporary state between the capitalist state of affairs and a communist society. Marx defined the proletariat as salaried workers, in contrast to the "Lumpenproletariat", who he defined as outcasts of society, such as beggars, tricksters, entertainers, buskers, criminals and prostitutes.[31] The political relevance of farmers has divided the left. In Das Kapital, Marx scarcely mentioned the subject.[32] Mao Zedong believed that it would be rural peasants, not urban workers, who would bring about the proletarian revolution.

Left-libertarians, libertarian socialists and anarchists believe in a decentralized economy run by trade unions, workers' councils, cooperatives, municipalities and communes and oppose both state and private control of the economy, preferring social ownership and local control, in which a nation of decentralized regions is united in a confederation.

The global justice movement, also known as the anti-globalization movement or alter-globalization movement, protests against corporate economic globalization due to its negative consequences for the poor, workers, the environment and small businesses.[33][34][35]"

[Telconi]

You redefined "Left" in this context to mean Keynesian economics and social welfare. None of these things are necessary to be the left party, only that the other party is more left.

That's the whole point of the left though. Left-wing politicians explicitly support Keynesian economic management, social welfare, egalitarianism, and a representative form of governing, as seen below:

"Left-wing politics support social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[5]
The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[6] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime.

Use of the term "Left" became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[7] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century, usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[8] communism, anarchism and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[9] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[10] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements and environmental movements,[11][12] as well as a wide range of parties.[13][14][15] According to former professor of economics Barry Clark, "leftists claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated".[16]"

Economics
"Leftist economic beliefs range from Keynesian economics and the welfare state through industrial democracy and the social market to nationalization of the economy and central planning,[27] to the anarcho-syndicalist advocacy of a council- and assembly-based self-managed anarchist communism. During the Industrial Revolution, leftists supported trade unions. At the beginning of the 20th century, many leftists advocated strong government intervention in the economy.[28] Leftists continue to criticize what they perceive as the exploitative nature of globalization, the "race to the bottom" and unjust lay-offs. In the last quarter of the 20th century, the belief that government (ruling in accordance with the interests of the people) ought to be directly involved in the day-to-day workings of an economy declined in popularity amongst the center-left, especially social democrats who became influenced by "Third Way" ideology.

Other leftists believe in Marxian economics, which are based on the economic theories of Karl Marx. Some distinguish Marx's economic theories from his political philosophy, arguing that Marx's approach to understanding the economy is independent of his advocacy of revolutionary socialism or his belief in the inevitability of proletarian revolution.[29][30] Marxian economics does not exclusively rely upon Marx, but it draws from a range of Marxist and non-Marxist sources. The "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "workers' state" are terms used by some Marxists, particularly Leninists and Marxist–Leninists, to describe what they see as a temporary state between the capitalist state of affairs and a communist society. Marx defined the proletariat as salaried workers, in contrast to the "Lumpenproletariat", who he defined as outcasts of society, such as beggars, tricksters, entertainers, buskers, criminals and prostitutes.[31] The political relevance of farmers has divided the left. In Das Kapital, Marx scarcely mentioned the subject.[32] Mao Zedong believed that it would be rural peasants, not urban workers, who would bring about the proletarian revolution.

Left-libertarians, libertarian socialists and anarchists believe in a decentralized economy run by trade unions, workers' councils, cooperatives, municipalities and communes and oppose both state and private control of the economy, preferring social ownership and local control, in which a nation of decentralized regions is united in a confederation.

The global justice movement, also known as the anti-globalization movement or alter-globalization movement, protests against corporate economic globalization due to its negative consequences for the poor, workers, the environment and small businesses.[33][34][35]"

Relative comparison is, well, relative.

[The of Korea]

That's the whole point of the left though. Left-wing politicians explicitly support Keynesian economic management, social welfare, egalitarianism, and a representative form of governing, as seen below:

"Left-wing politics support social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[5]
The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[6] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime.

Use of the term "Left" became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[7] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century, usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[8] communism, anarchism and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[9] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[10] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements and environmental movements,[11][12] as well as a wide range of parties.[13][14][15] According to former professor of economics Barry Clark, "leftists claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated".[16]"

Economics
"Leftist economic beliefs range from Keynesian economics and the welfare state through industrial democracy and the social market to nationalization of the economy and central planning,[27] to the anarcho-syndicalist advocacy of a council- and assembly-based self-managed anarchist communism. During the Industrial Revolution, leftists supported trade unions. At the beginning of the 20th century, many leftists advocated strong government intervention in the economy.[28] Leftists continue to criticize what they perceive as the exploitative nature of globalization, the "race to the bottom" and unjust lay-offs. In the last quarter of the 20th century, the belief that government (ruling in accordance with the interests of the people) ought to be directly involved in the day-to-day workings of an economy declined in popularity amongst the center-left, especially social democrats who became influenced by "Third Way" ideology.

Other leftists believe in Marxian economics, which are based on the economic theories of Karl Marx. Some distinguish Marx's economic theories from his political philosophy, arguing that Marx's approach to understanding the economy is independent of his advocacy of revolutionary socialism or his belief in the inevitability of proletarian revolution.[29][30] Marxian economics does not exclusively rely upon Marx, but it draws from a range of Marxist and non-Marxist sources. The "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "workers' state" are terms used by some Marxists, particularly Leninists and Marxist–Leninists, to describe what they see as a temporary state between the capitalist state of affairs and a communist society. Marx defined the proletariat as salaried workers, in contrast to the "Lumpenproletariat", who he defined as outcasts of society, such as beggars, tricksters, entertainers, buskers, criminals and prostitutes.[31] The political relevance of farmers has divided the left. In Das Kapital, Marx scarcely mentioned the subject.[32] Mao Zedong believed that it would be rural peasants, not urban workers, who would bring about the proletarian revolution.

Left-libertarians, libertarian socialists and anarchists believe in a decentralized economy run by trade unions, workers' councils, cooperatives, municipalities and communes and oppose both state and private control of the economy, preferring social ownership and local control, in which a nation of decentralized regions is united in a confederation.

The global justice movement, also known as the anti-globalization movement or alter-globalization movement, protests against corporate economic globalization due to its negative consequences for the poor, workers, the environment and small businesses.[33][34][35]"

Relative comparison is, well, relative.

neoliberalism may be relatively left of what the republican party is doing currently but it still right wing.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

That's the whole point of the left though. Left-wing politicians explicitly support Keynesian economic management, social welfare, egalitarianism, and a representative form of governing, as seen below:

"Left-wing politics support social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system".[5]
The political terms "Left" and "Right" were coined during the French Revolution (1789–1799), referring to the seating arrangement in the French Estates General: those who sat on the left generally opposed the monarchy and supported the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization,[6] while those on the right were supportive of the traditional institutions of the Old Regime.

Use of the term "Left" became more prominent after the restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 when it was applied to the "Independents".[7] The word "wing" was appended to Left and Right in the late 19th century, usually with disparaging intent and "left-wing" was applied to those who were unorthodox in their religious or political views.

The term was later applied to a number of movements, especially republicanism during the French Revolution in the 18th century, followed by socialism,[8] communism, anarchism and social democracy in the 19th and 20th centuries.[9] Since then, the term left-wing has been applied to a broad range of movements[10] including civil rights movements, feminist movements, anti-war movements and environmental movements,[11][12] as well as a wide range of parties.[13][14][15] According to former professor of economics Barry Clark, "leftists claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated".[16]"

Economics
"Leftist economic beliefs range from Keynesian economics and the welfare state through industrial democracy and the social market to nationalization of the economy and central planning,[27] to the anarcho-syndicalist advocacy of a council- and assembly-based self-managed anarchist communism. During the Industrial Revolution, leftists supported trade unions. At the beginning of the 20th century, many leftists advocated strong government intervention in the economy.[28] Leftists continue to criticize what they perceive as the exploitative nature of globalization, the "race to the bottom" and unjust lay-offs. In the last quarter of the 20th century, the belief that government (ruling in accordance with the interests of the people) ought to be directly involved in the day-to-day workings of an economy declined in popularity amongst the center-left, especially social democrats who became influenced by "Third Way" ideology.

Other leftists believe in Marxian economics, which are based on the economic theories of Karl Marx. Some distinguish Marx's economic theories from his political philosophy, arguing that Marx's approach to understanding the economy is independent of his advocacy of revolutionary socialism or his belief in the inevitability of proletarian revolution.[29][30] Marxian economics does not exclusively rely upon Marx, but it draws from a range of Marxist and non-Marxist sources. The "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "workers' state" are terms used by some Marxists, particularly Leninists and Marxist–Leninists, to describe what they see as a temporary state between the capitalist state of affairs and a communist society. Marx defined the proletariat as salaried workers, in contrast to the "Lumpenproletariat", who he defined as outcasts of society, such as beggars, tricksters, entertainers, buskers, criminals and prostitutes.[31] The political relevance of farmers has divided the left. In Das Kapital, Marx scarcely mentioned the subject.[32] Mao Zedong believed that it would be rural peasants, not urban workers, who would bring about the proletarian revolution.

Left-libertarians, libertarian socialists and anarchists believe in a decentralized economy run by trade unions, workers' councils, cooperatives, municipalities and communes and oppose both state and private control of the economy, preferring social ownership and local control, in which a nation of decentralized regions is united in a confederation.

The global justice movement, also known as the anti-globalization movement or alter-globalization movement, protests against corporate economic globalization due to its negative consequences for the poor, workers, the environment and small businesses.[33][34][35]"

Relative comparison is, well, relative.

Relativism doesn't apply to the 2D political spectrum though, and on such a spectrum, the Democratic Party is centrist, especially in regards to the economy and foreign policy.

[Telconi]

Relative comparison is, well, relative.

neoliberalism may be relatively left of what the republican party is doing currently but it still right wing.

But since it's being directly compared to the Republicans...

[Diopolis]

"No true Scotsman Leftist" nonsense aside, it is though, it is the left party in the United States political system.

You know the american democratic party is largely neoliberal with a large portion of its congressman being new democrat or blue dog right?

The mainstream dems in the USA have a pretty typically center-left platform on social and foreign issues. Their economics is... not, although they have that faction as well. And to note, even though socialists aren’t normally a mainstream part of the US political spectrum, neither is any sort of front nacional type group.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

You know the american democratic party is largely neoliberal with a large portion of its congressman being new democrat or blue dog right?

The mainstream dems in the USA have a pretty typically center-left platform on social and foreign issues. Their economics is... not, although they have that faction as well. And to note, even though socialists aren’t normally a mainstream part of the US political spectrum, neither is any sort of front nacional type group.

The Dems are not exactly doves when it comes to foreign affairs, given that Obama got America involved in the Yemeni Civil War and his administration was notorious for constant drone strikes (Moreso than during Bush's entire term in office), expansion of the surveillance machine (Remember how the state hounded Snowden for the mere "crime" of exposint blatantly unconstitutional activity?), funnelling arms to jihadists that comprised the FSA in Syria along with Saudi Arabia, and of course, Benghazi and the Libyan invasion.

[Tobleste]

I hate that argument. Right wing voters backed a racist candidate therefore left wingers are to blame.

More like left winged politicians decide that hitting everything with the racist stick was the way to win this made all voters numb to the label racists and the swing vote picked the bigot as the result even when individuals on both sides of the aisle called him racist.

Any evidence for that? I'm assuming you've evidence that the accusation of racism somehow mattered more 'back in the day' and you're not just making excuses for the decisions of millions of adults to blame the very people who tried to stop them.

[Tobleste]

I thought that SF stood for Sinn Fein, and I was wondering why a British political party would do that to an American organisation.
I think of the NRA as rather unsavoury, but "terrorist organisation" is taking it a bit far.

I can already imagine Sinn Féin denouncing the NRA as a terrorist organization exploding into a international scandal and dispute.

To be fair, the NRA is more heavily armed than the IRA nowadays...

[Gormwood]

Antifa Officially Declared a Terrorist Group by New Jersey’s DHS

Cue cricket chirps.

[Proctopeo]

Antifa Officially Declared a Terrorist Group by New Jersey’s DHS

Cue cricket chirps.

That was two years ago.

Try harder.