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SF declares NRA a terrorist organization

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Will the more moderate leftists ever awaken to the insidious, authoritarian group among them?

Yes, in time.
74
16%
No, they are too established in their views, and don't care enough.
187
39%
Unsure.
61
13%
No, because no one's trying to take away guns!
86
18%
Yes, and they will come around to agree with the far left in that guns should be banned!
66
14%
 
Total votes : 474

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Chernoslavia
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Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Meligoland wrote:so basically i'm pointing out that he's claiming right wingers do this even when no right wingers here have actually done it. it's just an excuse to sling shit without any real basis. and it looks like you happily do it too. how surprising.


"I haven't seen it happen so it hasn't happened"


So you don't know how debates work either? Allow me to tell you how things work - When you make a claim, it's up to you to provide evidence not the other way around.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Vassenor
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Posts: 46131
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:49 pm

Meligoland wrote:

>using a meme as evidence that tons of right wingers do this but ignoring the fact that tons of rightists use it as well because not everyone on the right likes Ben Shapiro

:rofl:

"Vassenor DESTROYS Meligoland with FACTS and LOGIC"


So you're sticking your head in the sand so you don't have to admit to being wrong.

I don't recall anyone else saying "tons of right wingers". Just "right wingers do this".
Last edited by Vassenor on Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:52 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Meligoland wrote:>using a meme as evidence that tons of right wingers do this but ignoring the fact that tons of rightists use it as well because not everyone on the right likes Ben Shapiro

:rofl:

"Vassenor DESTROYS Meligoland with FACTS and LOGIC"


So you're sticking your head in the sand so you don't have to admit to being wrong.

I don't recall anyone else saying "tons of right wingers". Just "right wingers do this".


Is Ben Shapiro two people. Because so far you haven't even managed to prove the plural part of that.
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ANTI:
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-Government Overreach
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-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:07 pm

Meligoland wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So you're sticking your head in the sand so you don't have to admit to being wrong.

I don't recall anyone else saying "tons of right wingers". Just "right wingers do this".

and i'll ask again which right wingers? you can't name a single one besides Ben Shapiro himself despite your ridiculous shit slinging.

Talking like the only right wingers on the internet are all on NSG. That's cute. Did I say "NSG right wingers"?
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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2nd Empire of Persia
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Posts: 4
Founded: Oct 10, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby 2nd Empire of Persia » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:27 pm

Gormwood wrote:

Guess that's what right-wingers really mean when they claim he destroys liberals with facts and logic. "Facts and Logic" being a semiautomatic.


he "destroys" college students whom are half his age. When he is backed into a corner by another adult, he whines like a baby and runs away.

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Ors Might
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Posts: 5424
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:34 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Meligoland wrote:and i'll ask again which right wingers? you can't name a single one besides Ben Shapiro himself despite your ridiculous shit slinging.

Talking like the only right wingers on the internet are all on NSG. That's cute. Did I say "NSG right wingers"?

You said “right wingers”, which is so vague and broad a term as to be entirely useless for this discussion. Do a number of right wingers like Ben Shapiro? Probably. What relevance does it have in regards to the NRA, which does not impose a political spectrum test upon members?

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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:48 pm

Telconi wrote:
Meligoland wrote:have any right wingers actually claimed that here?


Shhhhh, facts and logic aren't allowed.

You mean hyperbole and metaphor, Vass has the exclusive rights to those on this forum.

If anyone else does it it's just strawmanning.
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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:50 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Shhhhh, facts and logic aren't allowed.

You mean hyperbole and metaphor, Vass has the exclusive rights to those on this forum.

If anyone else does it it's just strawmanning.


Hyperbole and metaphor would be refreshing, at least they're related to the truth somehow.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:12 pm



Vassenor, how do you get that from what he said? He's saying he should have a right to teach his children the values he wants them to learn and that he should be able to send them to a private school that aligns with those values if he so chooses.

He's saying that if the Democratic party is going to literally outlaw teaching his values to children then he is left with no choice but to take up arms against that government because he's already a criminal in their eyes.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:13 pm


I think we all know the answer to that one...
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"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
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Ors Might
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:13 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:


Vassenor, how do you get that from what he said? He's saying he should have a right to teach his children the values he wants them to learn and that he should be able to send them to a private school that aligns with those values if he so chooses.

He's saying that if the Democratic party is going to literally outlaw teaching his values to children then he is left with no choice but to take up arms against that government because he's already a criminal in their eyes.

Teaching kids the value of self-defense, an important aspect of bodily autonomy, is literally terrorism.

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The Emerald Legion
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Posts: 7170
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Ors Might wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Vassenor, how do you get that from what he said? He's saying he should have a right to teach his children the values he wants them to learn and that he should be able to send them to a private school that aligns with those values if he so chooses.

He's saying that if the Democratic party is going to literally outlaw teaching his values to children then he is left with no choice but to take up arms against that government because he's already a criminal in their eyes.

Teaching kids the value of self-defense, an important aspect of bodily autonomy, is literally terrorism.


Well in this case it's wanting to avoid teaching his kid that LGBT people are ok and that it's fine to be homosexual because he's religious.... but still. He's got a right to do that.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Ors Might
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:18 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Teaching kids the value of self-defense, an important aspect of bodily autonomy, is literally terrorism.


Well in this case it's wanting to avoid teaching his kid that LGBT people are ok and that it's fine to be homosexual because he's religious.... but still. He's got a right to do that.

He’s a douche for it but I wouldn’t stop the man from teaching his kids his religious beliefs.

I still don’t know how Ben Shapiro is relevant to the thread.

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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:23 pm

Ors Might wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Well in this case it's wanting to avoid teaching his kid that LGBT people are ok and that it's fine to be homosexual because he's religious.... but still. He's got a right to do that.

He’s a douche for it but I wouldn’t stop the man from teaching his kids his religious beliefs.

I still don’t know how Ben Shapiro is relevant to the thread.


Because Vassenor decided that since Ben threatened to take up arms SF 'Had a point' about the NRA being a terrorist group. But that's the thing, the situation in which Shapiro said he would take up arms and violently oppose the government is far fetched nonsense that's spewing out of Beto O'Rourke's mouth. He's reacting to things said by Beto and pointing out that if Beto had his way, Shapiro and millions of other republicans would have no choice but to violently oppose the government.

It's not that he would WANT to. It's that Beto's stances are literally so far past the pale there would be no other option.
Last edited by The Emerald Legion on Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Ors Might
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:31 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ors Might wrote:He’s a douche for it but I wouldn’t stop the man from teaching his kids his religious beliefs.

I still don’t know how Ben Shapiro is relevant to the thread.


Because Vassenor decided that since Ben threatened to take up arms SF 'Had a point' about the NRA being a terrorist group. But that's the thing, the situation in which Shapiro said he would take up arms and violently oppose the government is far fetched nonsense that's spewing out of Beto O'Rourke's mouth. He's reacting to things said by Beto and pointing out that if Beto had his way, Shapiro and millions of other republicans would have no choice but to violently oppose the government.

It's not that he would WANT to. It's that Beto's stances are literally so far past the pale there would be no other option.

Well shit, Shapiro and I have something in common. Armed revolt would sure as hell be better than anything Beto would enact if given the chance.

Meligoland wrote:
Ors Might wrote:He’s a douche for it but I wouldn’t stop the man from teaching his kids his religious beliefs.

I still don’t know how Ben Shapiro is relevant to the thread.

because Vassenor brought him up as some sort of weird tactic to try and own the NRA. because i guess Ben Shapiro is the voice of the NRA now?

A move I have no doubt that she’d react positively to if used towards, say, Planned Parenthood.

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Uiiop
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Posts: 5182
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:42 pm

Ors Might wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Because Vassenor decided that since Ben threatened to take up arms SF 'Had a point' about the NRA being a terrorist group. But that's the thing, the situation in which Shapiro said he would take up arms and violently oppose the government is far fetched nonsense that's spewing out of Beto O'Rourke's mouth. He's reacting to things said by Beto and pointing out that if Beto had his way, Shapiro and millions of other republicans would have no choice but to violently oppose the government.

It's not that he would WANT to. It's that Beto's stances are literally so far past the pale there would be no other option.

Well shit, Shapiro and I have something in common. Armed revolt would sure as hell be better than anything Beto would enact if given the chance.

Meligoland wrote:because Vassenor brought him up as some sort of weird tactic to try and own the NRA. because i guess Ben Shapiro is the voice of the NRA now?

A move I have no doubt that she’d react positively to if used towards, say, Planned Parenthood.

What Beto's wants in this case is not referring to his gun polices but all Schools teaching LGBT Stuff. Or just projecting enforced teaching upon his "Remove tax exemptions" for anti-LGBT churches idea. (I can't find anyone specifically talking about what beto wants in terms of schooling)
Sure you might have issues with but is it really armed revolt worthy especially if just removal of special treatment?
Last edited by Uiiop on Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ors Might
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Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:44 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Well shit, Shapiro and I have something in common. Armed revolt would sure as hell be better than anything Beto would enact if given the chance.


A move I have no doubt that she’d react positively to if used towards, say, Planned Parenthood.

What Beto's wants in this case is not referring to his gun polices but all Schools teaching LGBT Stuff. Or just projecting enforced teaching upon his "Remove tax exemptions" for anti-LGBT churches idea. (I can't find anyone specifically talking about what beto wants in terms of schooling)
Sure you might have issues with but is it really armed revolt worthy especially if just removal of special treatment?

Ah. On that front, not really. I disagree on removing tax exemptions simply for being “anti-LGBT” and don’t think private schools should be forced into teaching LGBT stuff but it ain’t worth potentially killing anybody over.

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Telconi
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Posts: 28001
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:45 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Well shit, Shapiro and I have something in common. Armed revolt would sure as hell be better than anything Beto would enact if given the chance.


A move I have no doubt that she’d react positively to if used towards, say, Planned Parenthood.

What Beto's wants in this case is not referring to his gun polices but all Schools teaching LGBT Stuff. Or just projecting enforced teaching upon his "Remove tax exemptions" for anti-LGBT churches idea. (I can't find anyone specifically talking about what beto wants in terms of schooling)
Sure you might have issues with but is it really armed revolt worthy especially if just removal of special treatment?


The government selectively taxing churches isn't just the "removal of special treatment" it is a clear violation of their constitutional rights.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Uiiop
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:47 pm

Telconi wrote:
Uiiop wrote:What Beto's wants in this case is not referring to his gun polices but all Schools teaching LGBT Stuff. Or just projecting enforced teaching upon his "Remove tax exemptions" for anti-LGBT churches idea. (I can't find anyone specifically talking about what beto wants in terms of schooling)
Sure you might have issues with but is it really armed revolt worthy especially if just removal of special treatment?


The government selectively taxing churches isn't just the "removal of special treatment" it is a clear violation of their constitutional rights.

Why not both?

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Ors Might
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:48 pm

Telconi wrote:
Uiiop wrote:What Beto's wants in this case is not referring to his gun polices but all Schools teaching LGBT Stuff. Or just projecting enforced teaching upon his "Remove tax exemptions" for anti-LGBT churches idea. (I can't find anyone specifically talking about what beto wants in terms of schooling)
Sure you might have issues with but is it really armed revolt worthy especially if just removal of special treatment?


The government selectively taxing churches isn't just the "removal of special treatment" it is a clear violation of their constitutional rights.

Taxing an organization that qualifies for tax exempt status because of it’s beliefs is a pretty big first amendment no-no.

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The Two Jerseys
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Posts: 12634
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:49 pm

Ors Might wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The government selectively taxing churches isn't just the "removal of special treatment" it is a clear violation of their constitutional rights.

Taxing an organization that qualifies for tax exempt status because of it’s beliefs is a pretty big first amendment no-no.

Is there any part of the Constitution that the Democrats don't intend to piss on?
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

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Ors Might
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Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:50 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Taxing an organization that qualifies for tax exempt status because of it’s beliefs is a pretty big first amendment no-no.

Is there any part of the Constitution that the Democrats don't intend to piss on?

The Commerce Clause, maybe?

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Diopolis
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Posts: 13131
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Ors Might wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The government selectively taxing churches isn't just the "removal of special treatment" it is a clear violation of their constitutional rights.

Taxing an organization that qualifies for tax exempt status because of it’s beliefs is a pretty big first amendment no-no.

I mean, it’s not like it’s something democrats don’t usually try when it targets groups they don’t like. See: congress trying to get the tax exempt status revoked from SPLC(!) listed hate groups, Obama’s IRS targeting, etc.
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Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28001
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Ors Might wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Is there any part of the Constitution that the Democrats don't intend to piss on?

The Commerce Clause, maybe?


The commerce clause is already a bucket of piss.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5182
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:53 pm

Ors Might wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The government selectively taxing churches isn't just the "removal of special treatment" it is a clear violation of their constitutional rights.

Taxing an organization that qualifies for tax exempt status because of it’s beliefs is a pretty big first amendment no-no.

The way the law is set up means the qualifications are based on beliefs. Hence why i said it's both removal of special treatment and a 1A breach.
To actually play devil's advocate he said There can be no reward, no benefit, no tax break for anyone ... that denies the full human rights and the full civil rights of every single one of us" not that any opposition counts as that per se.
Maybe he's fine with say...churches not doing gay marriage themselves and being against but not preventing it's members from doing it from other sources.

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