Teaching children about hell

[Europa Undivided]

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

I mean, in my locality here in Rodrigo Duterte’s horrorland, there isn’t much the oppressed can do against the big cats other than hope that the corrupt fools are struck dad sooner or later. There is simply no choice.

[Cappuccina]

My issue with the "Fire and Brimstone" teaching of religion to children is that it misses the actual important part of a faith, whether that be Islam, Judaism, Christanity or whatever. We're supposed to be upbringing them to understand God's (swt) many attributes, most important of them is love and kindness. Worshipping God (swt) though blind fear is hollow, missing the point altogether.

[Ayytaly]

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

Implying religious folks don't have law enfrcement.

[Cappuccina]

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

That's not how it works.

[The Grims]

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

That's not how it works.

On the contrary. "God will solve it/save us" is a pretty common line of reasoning to excuse doing nothing.

[Kowani]

That's not how it works.

On the contrary. "God will solve it/save us" is a pretty common line of reasoning to excuse doing nothing.

Back in the decline of the Spanish Empire, the king had a group of nobles commission a project to unite two large rivers. After wasting time and money, they gave up, claiming “if God had wanted the rivers to be united, he would have made them so.”

[New haven america]

Absolutely and completely false.

I think we just uncovered the source of the controversy.
Believers see Hell as a real threat. Naturally they want to warn their loved ones for it. So to them telling about it is noble.

Nonbelievers see Hell as a scaretactic to make people obey. So to them telling about it is an attempt to control, oppress and abuse.

The beauty is that both can be right at the same time.

Just because I actually study the history of Christianity doesn't make me a non-believer.

[Europa Undivided]

I think we just uncovered the source of the controversy.
Believers see Hell as a real threat. Naturally they want to warn their loved ones for it. So to them telling about it is noble.

Nonbelievers see Hell as a scaretactic to make people obey. So to them telling about it is an attempt to control, oppress and abuse.

The beauty is that both can be right at the same time.

Just because I actually study the history of Christianity doesn't make me a non-believer.

?

[Rojava Free State]

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

I mean, in my locality here in Rodrigo Duterte’s horrorland, there isn’t much the oppressed can do against the big cats other than hope that the corrupt fools are struck dad sooner or later. There is simply no choice.

There is plenty they can do, they just haven't done it. you really think if a widespread rebellion began against dutuerte, he wouldn't potentially be overthrown like mummar gaddafi? The reason it hasn't happened is because most Filipinos blindly love dutuerte and will cheer him on even as he kills their families because "he's fixing the philippines" (more like genociding poor people)

Remember too that the philippines is a republic. They could vote dutuerte out if they wanted to, and if he refused to go, they could then throw him out by force. They don't do that because people drank the kool aid harder in the philippines for dututerte than they drank it for trump in america. The point is, hell is a stupid wishful thinking concept. We gotta take action against wrongdoings in this life

[Fahran]

Though surely the concept of hell was invented for the purpose of controlling and abusing the underlings ?

I'm doubtful that's the case actually. Bronze Age religions did not conceive of the underworld in ethical terms or for purposes of control. It was a cold, dark, dreary place where souls, good and bad, lofty and humble, were consigned after death. The more ethically motivated approach to Hell came about as a way to answer the problem of evil, and some of those ideas may have been borrowed from Zoroastrianism and later Greek thought. Even if we pay attention to religious councils, we have to understand that the attendants, when they believed, genuinely believed. We shouldn't paint early clergy as Machiavellian masterminds or manipulators because it pretty much disregards everything we know about them. People in antiquity believed in their religion so much that they actively let themselves be murdered for it. And that allegedly goes for Jesus's immediate followers who would have been in leadership positions. Our local Catholic and Orthodox folks should be able to elaborate a bit more richly than me.

[Estanglia]

There's a lot of relativism in this thread, including from the OP.

People should believe in true things and disbelieve in false things. If hell does not exist, then it is wrong to teach children that it does exist. If hell does exist, then it is wrong to teach children that it does not exist.

There may be compelling reasons to withhold knowledge of the existence of hell from very young children, but the reason provided in the OP is such a reason. If hell does exist, then the stronger belief induced by fear of hell is a positive characteristic rather than a negative one.

'If' is key.

We have no reason to assume the existence of hell, nor do we have any evidence for it.

Thus, it is reasonable to make the assumption that it doesn't exist because no evidence we have points to its existence.

[Rojava Free State]

There's a lot of relativism in this thread, including from the OP.

People should believe in true things and disbelieve in false things. If hell does not exist, then it is wrong to teach children that it does exist. If hell does exist, then it is wrong to teach children that it does not exist.

There may be compelling reasons to withhold knowledge of the existence of hell from very young children, but the reason provided in the OP is such a reason. If hell does exist, then the stronger belief induced by fear of hell is a positive characteristic rather than a negative one.

'If' is key.

We have no reason to assume the existence of hell, nor do we have any evidence for it.

Thus, it is reasonable to make the assumption that it doesn't exist because no evidence we have points to its existence.

We may as well warn our kids that they should avoid crystal lake cause Jason is there.

[Hammer Britannia]

You know, maybe the Christians should just all go back to Sheol. No heaven or hell, just a place where both the saint and the sinner go. Then we wouldn't have to deal with this mess.

[Fahran]

You know, maybe the Christians should just all go back to Sheol. No heaven or hell, just a place where both the saint and the sinner go. Then we wouldn't have to deal with this mess.

I mean... we have Gehenna and there's not really a fuss, probably because we don't emphasize it much and the atheists don't know about it either. But, honestly, the notion of judgement has become central to quite a few Abrahamic faiths in the past couple millennia. G-d will uplift and exalt the virtuous and the sinful will punish themselves, the scales will be balanced in a way that they might not have been in life.

[Hammer Britannia]

You know, maybe the Christians should just all go back to Sheol. No heaven or hell, just a place where both the saint and the sinner go. Then we wouldn't have to deal with this mess.

I mean... we have Gehenna and there's not really a fuss, probably because we don't emphasize it much and the atheists don't know about it either.

Point taken.

[Rojava Free State]

You know, maybe the Christians should just all go back to Sheol. No heaven or hell, just a place where both the saint and the sinner go. Then we wouldn't have to deal with this mess.

I mean... we have Gehenna and there's not really a fuss, probably because we don't emphasize it much and the atheists don't know about it either.

A lot of Jews I've met are atheists anyhow so it's more symbolic for them than real. Jews as a culture (except for the orthodox but they're a minority) are surprisingly secularized and more friendly to non religion than Christians or Muslims are. I guess part of the reason is the fact that Jews are an ethnicity as well as a religion, so while you may not be of the religion, you're still ethnically a hebrew.

[Salus Maior]

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

That's never been the case.

[Diopolis]

On the contrary. "God will solve it/save us" is a pretty common line of reasoning to excuse doing nothing.

Back in the decline of the Spanish Empire, the king had a group of nobles commission a project to unite two large rivers. After wasting time and money, they gave up, claiming “if God had wanted the rivers to be united, he would have made them so.”

This sounds like a pithy way of admitting he was wrong to begin with.

[Hurdergaryp]

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".

That's never been the case.

Indeed. Especially fundamentalists tend to be gluttons for punishment. The punishment of others, to be exact.

[Fahran]

A lot of Jews I've met are atheists anyhow so it's more symbolic for them than real. Jews as a culture (except for the orthodox but they're a minority) are surprisingly secularized and more friendly to non religion than Christians or Muslims are. I guess part of the reason is the fact that Jews are an ethnicity as well as a religion, so while you may not be of the religion, you're still ethnically a hebrew.

To be honest, I'm not too keen on the laxness of Reform Jews who seem to reduce religion down to wants and appetites without any sort of resolve or principle. I mean... I'm as much a product of the Haskalah as they are, but I'm a bit more in touch with what Mendelssohn actually had in mind. And we come off as friendly principally because we have no active interest in converting you and have a more lenient and malleable impression of the world to come than most. But, again, I don't really think we're the subject of this thread. I more so brought up Gehenna as a point of reference.

[Fahran]

That's never been the case.

Indeed. Especially fundamentalists tend to be gluttons for punishment. The punishment of others, to be exact.

Self-flagellation isn't uncommon among those sorts.

[Dakini]

However, this article claims that it would be worse for parents to not teach children about hell. They consider it the responsibility of parents to protect their children from hell by telling them how to be saved according to their interpretation of the Bible. They call it the God-given responsibility of parents to show their children God's love, which they believe includes teaching them about hell.

Yeah, but that link is from Answers In Genesis and they're just some evangelical liars.

One should only teach children about religion for the purposes of critically evaluating a religions so they don't get duped by religious people into becoming religious and for greater cultural understanding. If one is going to talk to children about Hell, it should be treated as though one is talking to children about Cinderella.

[Ethel mermania]

Yes, everyone should know what it is like to be a NY met fan.

[Fahran]

Yes, everyone should know what it is like to be a NY met fan.

I should have answered like this.

[Europa Undivided]

I mean, in my locality here in Rodrigo Duterte’s horrorland, there isn’t much the oppressed can do against the big cats other than hope that the corrupt fools are struck dad sooner or later. There is simply no choice.

There is plenty they can do, they just haven't done it. you really think if a widespread rebellion began against dutuerte, he wouldn't potentially be overthrown like mummar gaddafi? The reason it hasn't happened is because most Filipinos blindly love dutuerte and will cheer him on even as he kills their families because "he's fixing the philippines" (more like genociding poor people)

Remember too that the philippines is a republic. They could vote dutuerte out if they wanted to, and if he refused to go, they could then throw him out by force. They don't do that because people drank the kool aid harder in the philippines for dututerte than they drank it for trump in america. The point is, hell is a stupid wishful thinking concept. We gotta take action against wrongdoings in this life

I am the one living in here.