Teaching children about hell

[The Alma Mater]

But why do christians get to decide what is important to Hindu doctrine ? You sorta waived that right when you left the faith.

So teaching about Naraka it is.

If Hindus want to teach their children about Naraka, I wholly support their right. I have no real interest in pretending that I'm a morally better person or that they're child abusers, as some here have, simply because they teach their children about their religion. As far as I can see, no empirical evidence of harm can be uncovered. If we're going to get into discussions of ethics and morals, we arrive at everyone calling everyone else wrong and immoral - something that's quite fruitless, really.

I agree that I have seen little evidence of kids being traumatised by stories of Hell. Or Santa. Or the scissorman. Or.. etc.

Of course, christian priests have been using the threat of Hell to abuse people for centuries - telling a little boy he and everybody he cares about will rot in hell when they do not lick the priests lollipop is quite efficient. But that in itself is not a reason to ban telling kids about hell; just to crackdown more on people who use it to abuse.

[Fahran]

If Hindus want to teach their children about Naraka, I wholly support their right. I have no real interest in pretending that I'm a morally better person or that they're child abusers, as some here have, simply because they teach their children about their religion. As far as I can see, no empirical evidence of harm can be uncovered. If we're going to get into discussions of ethics and morals, we arrive at everyone calling everyone else wrong and immoral - something that's quite fruitless, really.

I agree that I have seen little evidence of kids being traumatised by stories of Hell. Or Santa. Or the scissorman. Or.. etc.

Of course, christian priests have been using the threat of Hell to abuse people for centuries - telling a little boy he and everybody he cares about will rot in hell when they do not lick the priests lollipop is quite efficient. But that in itself is not a reason to ban telling kids about hell; just to crackdown more on people who use it to abuse.

Yes, I do completely agree with that. Actually, I'd go even further and argue that anyone who uses a position of authority and trust to abuse the vulnerable should be severely punished.

[Locus Praemonstratus]

Most people in this thread are pretty adverse, Geneviev, of people talking negatively about their preferred society: Hell.

[Fahran]

You can't have it both ways. Either hell is essential or it's not. If it's not, then it doesn't have to be taught. If it is, then your entire previous line of argument fails.

My previous line of argument wasn't that Hell was sever-able from Christian religious teachings, but, rather, that it constituted one of many teachings that worked together to create a narrative a good deal more complex than the straw-man you were attempting to impose. I'll leave the decision on whether Hell is sever-able to someone who believes in the concept and in Christianity, since I know that some Christians reject damnation in favor of annihilation, but my point was more so that your narrative and interpretation, rooted in your apostasy, aren't without substantial challenges from competing narratives rooted in Christian faith and doctrine - with most of those being more rigorous than your own with regard to theology.

[Neanderthaland]

You can't have it both ways. Either hell is essential or it's not. If it's not, then it doesn't have to be taught. If it is, then your entire previous line of argument fails.

My previous line of argument wasn't that Hell was sever-able from Christian religious teachings, but, rather, that it constituted one of many teachings that worked together to create a narrative a good deal more complex than the straw-man you were attempting to impose. I'll leave the decision on whether Hell is sever-able to someone who believes in the concept and in Christianity, since I know that some Christians reject damnation in favor of annihilation, but my point was more so that your narrative and interpretation, rooted in your apostasy, aren't without substantial challenges from competing narratives rooted in Christian faith and doctrine - with most of those being more rigorous than your own with regard to theology.

You don't teach children every little detail of a religion. They're children.

You teach them the important parts. You said that hell isn't really an important part. So it can wait until they're an adult then.

[Fahran]

You don't teach children every little detail of a religion. They're children.

You teach them the important parts. You said that hell isn't really an important part. So it can wait until they're an adult then.

I didn't say Hell wasn't important. I stated that the concept and its role within the context of wider theology were not as you characterized them. It's not for me to dictate what is and isn't important to Christians. I merely relayed the sentiments expressed by several others present here regarding your characterization of their beliefs. My argument was that you were making Christianity out to be a hedonistic ethics when it is not in fact one.

[Ayytaly]

Hell is the Christian concept of perpetual punishment after God finds you guilty for being a sinner.

Had sex solely for pleasure? Guilty

Robbed an iPhone? Guilty

Murdered a kid? Guilty

Said "God bless Trump"? Guilty

NEET? Guilty

Called some random celebrity "God"? Guilty

Told your parents to "fuck off, I'm 15 therefore an adult"? Guilty

Half-joking aside, teaching kids dogmatic punishment is a matter of familial privacy, and it's not really abuse. You've got less-religious single mothers spending child support on new shoes and bringing some random guy they met at the nightclub and try to convince them to be their "daddy".* That's a more serious issue.

*(Anecdote from my next door neighbor always partying and moaning so loudly from gratuitous sex with different one-night stands that half the tenants rallied to kick her out. Her kids were taken away by CPS and presumably adopted.)

[The Grims]

I agree that I have seen little evidence of kids being traumatised by stories of Hell. Or Santa. Or the scissorman. Or.. etc.

Of course, christian priests have been using the threat of Hell to abuse people for centuries - telling a little boy he and everybody he cares about will rot in hell when they do not lick the priests lollipop is quite efficient. But that in itself is not a reason to ban telling kids about hell; just to crackdown more on people who use it to abuse.

Yes, I do completely agree with that. Actually, I'd go even further and argue that anyone who uses a position of authority and trust to abuse the vulnerable should be severely punished.

Though surely the concept of hell was invented for the purpose of controlling and abusing the underlings ?

[Europa Undivided]

Its how I always viewed it though, if I want to be on my best behavior; work my way to avoid it rather then cower and fear it.

You realize that the extremeness of Hell was a scare tactic used by early Christians to get people to convert, right?

I mean, you bought right into your plan, and whether you want to admit it or not, you're fearful of Hell.

Absolutely and completely false.

[Geneviev]

Its how I always viewed it though, if I want to be on my best behavior; work my way to avoid it rather then cower and fear it.

You realize that the extremeness of Hell was a scare tactic used by early Christians to get people to convert, right?

I mean, you bought right into your plan, and whether you want to admit it or not, you're fearful of Hell.

Not everyone is afraid of hell.

[The Grims]

You realize that the extremeness of Hell was a scare tactic used by early Christians to get people to convert, right?

I mean, you bought right into your plan, and whether you want to admit it or not, you're fearful of Hell.

Absolutely and completely false.

I think we just uncovered the source of the controversy.
Believers see Hell as a real threat. Naturally they want to warn their loved ones for it. So to them telling about it is noble.

Nonbelievers see Hell as a scaretactic to make people obey. So to them telling about it is an attempt to control, oppress and abuse.

The beauty is that both can be right at the same time.

[Ayytaly]

You realize that the extremeness of Hell was a scare tactic used by early Christians to get people to convert, right?

I mean, you bought right into your plan, and whether you want to admit it or not, you're fearful of Hell.

Not everyone is afraid of hell.

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

[Neanderthaland]

Not everyone is afraid of hell.

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

Yes, everyone who does not believe in hell is a criminal. No one is just unconvinced by your mythology.

[Geneviev]

Not everyone is afraid of hell.

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

Even people who do believe in it aren't necessarily afraid of it.

[Ayytaly]

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

Yes, everyone who does not believe in hell is a criminal. No one is just unconvinced by your mythology.

Missing the point

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

Even people who do believe in it aren't necessarily afraid of it.

Some think they still can be saved if repentant.

[Neanderthaland]

Yes, everyone who does not believe in hell is a criminal. No one is just unconvinced by your mythology.

Missing the point

The point that people who don't agree with you are evil?

[Kowani]

Yes, everyone who does not believe in hell is a criminal. No one is just unconvinced by your mythology.

Missing the point

Even people who do believe in it aren't necessarily afraid of it.

Some think they still can be saved if repentant.

I’m sure that makes their victims feel so much better.

[Ayytaly]

I’m sure that makes their victims feel so much better.

Some turn the other cheek.

[Kowani]

I’m sure that makes their victims feel so much better.

Some turn the other cheek.

Which would be done regardless of repentance.

[Geneviev]

Yes, everyone who does not believe in hell is a criminal. No one is just unconvinced by your mythology.

Missing the point

Even people who do believe in it aren't necessarily afraid of it.

Some think they still can be saved if repentant.

If someone is trying to avoid being caught, there's not much chance of repentance.

[Europa Undivided]

What a gigantic assumption

Care to elaborate or are you just gonna leave it at that because we'll find a way to tear your arguments apart?

We don’t even emphasize the hell part to begin with, and much less to instill fear.

Even if we did, I have never seen a child gain PTSD from hearing about hell.

[Ayytaly]

If someone is trying to avoid being caught, there's not much chance of repentance.

I'm not even sure what you're getting at.

[Europa Undivided]

When someone tells me customer service is hell, I don't cower in fear because of some crappy job I may or not get in the future. No, I just look for ways to simply avoid it.

Except you gotta constantly be as virtuous as caesar's wife to avoid hell. People waste their whole lives trying to get good with God and never truly experience the pleasures of this world because "they're evil!" I'm tired of hearing words such as sinful, haram, evil or demonic being used to describe things including but not limited to:

•Gay people
•Swearing
•Premarital sex
•me having had two Muslim girlfriends
•Drinking alcohol
•Strip clubs

Like seriously enjoy being alive cause if this is it, you only got one chance

Except that virtue in itself is impossible to attain, much less to avoid hell.

Also, how is “being good” a waste of one’s life? Are you saying that St. Francis of Assisi’s life of charity was a waste because he didn’t choose to live a life of hedonism?

Also, drinking alcohol is not a sin. Being drunk, however, is.

[Kowani]

Except you gotta constantly be as virtuous as caesar's wife to avoid hell. People waste their whole lives trying to get good with God and never truly experience the pleasures of this world because "they're evil!" I'm tired of hearing words such as sinful, haram, evil or demonic being used to describe things including but not limited to:

•Gay people
•Swearing
•Premarital sex
•me having had two Muslim girlfriends
•Drinking alcohol
•Strip clubs

Like seriously enjoy being alive cause if this is it, you only got one chance

Except that virtue in itself is impossible to attain, much less to avoid hell.

Also, how is “being good” a waste of one’s life? Are you saying that St. Francis of Assisi’s life of charity was a waste because he didn’t choose to live a life of hedonism?

Also, drinking alcohol is not a sin. Being drunk, however, is.

Under Christianity, true altruism is impossible.

[The Grims]

Not everyone is afraid of hell.

Mostly because they don't believe in it. It's a criminal's way of coping with the fact that whatever law he breaks, and whoever's innocence he besmirches, it's not punishable beyond the secular mortal realms we call "life". If he is not caught, and his sentiment is true, then... that's life. Tough shit whoever his victims were.

That of course works both ways. People who believe in Hell might be tempted to not punish or pursue criminals because "god (or whatever deity they believe in) will punish them later".