Teaching children about hell

[New haven america]

Actually, the only reason that rape is immoral in the Abrahamic religions is that it's lustful, and in order to make up for that the rapist needs to pay the father of the victim 30 silver and marry his rape victim against her will.

Notice that I'm using gendered language here, and that's because in the Abrahamic religions women can't rape, men can't be raped, and gay rape is either nonexistent or only considered sodomy.

I must have missed all of that from the actually qualified people. Huh...

Why do you act so combative in matters that don't require it?

[Telconi]

I must have missed all of that from the actually qualified people. Huh...

Why do you act so combative in matters that don't require it?

I don't.

[Cekoviu]

I must have missed all of that from the actually qualified people. Huh...

Why do you act so combative in matters that don't require it?

NSG is a hell of a drug.

[Cekoviu]

Why do you act so combative in matters that don't require it?

I don't.

Heh.

[New haven america]

Actually, the only reason that rape is immoral in the Abrahamic religions is that it's lustful, and in order to make up for that the rapist needs to pay the father of the victim 30 silver and marry his rape victim against her will.

Notice that I'm using gendered language here, and that's because in the Abrahamic religions women can't rape, men can't be raped, and gay rape is either nonexistent or only considered sodomy.

True.Rape is both immoral and illegal though, regardless of what the bible says.

Didn't used to be, the US actually ran under similar laws until the 1970's (For Marital and Extramarital Rape) and 2013 (For rape that isn't solely male abuser/woman victim cases, however, a lot of states still believe that men can't be raped and women can't rape).

[New haven america]

Why do you act so combative in matters that don't require it?

I don't.

If that's what you think then I can't change your opinion, but you just did it right now.

There are times where being combative can be good, but in this case, this is mostly a chill discussion and debate.

[Telconi]

I don't.

If that's what you think then I can't change your opinion, but you just did it right now.

There are times where being combative can be good, but in this case, this is mostly a chill discussion and debate.

Too many pronouns, can't figure out what you're trying to say.

[Cekoviu]

If that's what you think then I can't change your opinion, but you just did it right now.

There are times where being combative can be good, but in this case, this is mostly a chill discussion and debate.

Too many pronouns, can't figure out what you're trying to say.

I really hope you're joking; the post was really quite clear.

[New haven america]

If that's what you think then I can't change your opinion, but you just did it right now.

There are times where being combative can be good, but in this case, this is mostly a chill discussion and debate.

Too many pronouns, can't figure out what you're trying to say.

That's cool, take your time, there's no rush.

[Telconi]

Too many pronouns, can't figure out what you're trying to say.

That's cool, take your time, there's no rush.

Indeed.

[Fahran]

Except I'm not on the left, so fuck your overused, unoriginal, and inapplicable buzzword that you guys love to use whenever you talk about things you don't like.

(PS: I'm not attacking you, I'm attack your overused buzzwords)

If you're a Satanist, you're on what would have comprised the Left until quite recently, but I will grant that I did misjudge you as a progressive given your national category - a mistake I should really know better than to make. That said, I do want to be clear that I'm precise with language. I don't use the word leftism to encompass any and all ideologies I dislike but rather a specific set of ideologies that probably have more in common with my traditionalism in some respects than classical liberalism or libertarianism.

[Fahran]

When someone tells me customer service is hell, I don't cower in fear because of some crappy job I may or not get in the future. No, I just look for ways to simply avoid it.

False equivalency.

Working for pay at a job you don't like=/=Eternal, unending, and inescapable punishment and torture because you didn't spend your entire life praising a dude that lives in the sky.

Again, that's a single conception of Hell and, beyond that, Hell isn't the crux of Christian teachings but rather a singular element kept in place by other teachings.

[Neanderthaland]

False equivalency.

Working for pay at a job you don't like=/=Eternal, unending, and inescapable punishment and torture because you didn't spend your entire life praising a dude that lives in the sky.

Again, that's a single conception of Hell and, beyond that, Hell isn't the crux of Christian teachings but rather a singular element kept in place by other teachings.

Then it's not necessary to teach to children. Since it's not that important.

[Fahran]

Actually, the only reason that rape is immoral in the Abrahamic religions is that it's lustful, and in order to make up for that the rapist needs to pay the father of the victim 30 silver and marry his rape victim against her will.

Yeah, you probably should re-read the story of Tamar. Rape is not depicted as sinful exclusively because it occurs beyond the bounds of marriage. In fact, when we look into certain Jewish interpretations, it's one of a set of sins that can damn your eternal soul to destruction. Beyond that, you've misquoted Halakha. The victim is not obligated to marry her rapist. The rapist is, however, required to marry his victim and uphold all the responsibilities of a husband should she demand it. It's also important to understand that Halakha is often seen as wrapped up in the mores of the community such that the wickedness of the community may result in strange laws occurring. And, judging by the fact that Absalom murdered Amnon and was welcomed back by his father in a way that isn't depicted in solidly condemnatory terms, suggests that being forced to support a victim was the least of your potential woes. Her family could probably get off with straight up murdering you.

Source.
Source.

Notice that I'm using gendered language here, and that's because in the Abrahamic religions women can't rape, men can't be raped, and gay rape is either nonexistent or only considered sodomy.

Again, this isn't true. Men who are sexually assaulted by other men are not seen as sinners. On the contrary, the opinion of the sages is that the perpetrator has committed sexual immorality and an abomination. I'll have to dig through my Podcasts on Halakha to explicate this at further length, but you're talking about legal codes you've never even given a glance.

[The Alma Mater]

Actually, the only reason that rape is immoral in the Abrahamic religions is that it's lustful, and in order to make up for that the rapist needs to pay the father of the victim 30 silver and marry his rape victim against her will.

Yeah, you probably should re-read the story of Tamar. Rape is not depicted as sinful exclusively because it occurs beyond the bounds of marriage. In fact, when we look into certain Jewish interpretations, it's one of a set of sins that can damn your eternal soul to destruction. Beyond that, you've misquoted Halakha. The victim is not obligated to marry her rapist. The rapist is, however, required to marry her victim and uphold all the responsibilities of a husband should she demand it.

The part where she has to consent is explicitly NOT in the Bible.

[Reploid Productions]

*cough*Stayontopic*cough*thankyou*cough*

[Fahran]

The part where she has to consent is explicitly NOT in the Bible.

Um... my point is that the Torah describes that episode as sexual assault. "Because he was stronger than her Amnon raped her." She demands, both before and after the assault, that he marry her as well because this would have ensured her survival in a society where her future had been effectively stolen from her. Her brother, who takes her into his house, then conspires to murder Amnon and faces only a few years of exile in retribution. I don't think you can really interpret any of that story as pro-rapist, especially not when you read the Talmud and the opinions of the rabbis.

*cough*Stayontopic*cough*thankyou*cough*

Sorry, Reppy. Um, if y'all want to debate this, take it to the JDT, CDT, or IDT.

[Fahran]

Again, that's a single conception of Hell and, beyond that, Hell isn't the crux of Christian teachings but rather a singular element kept in place by other teachings.

Then it's not necessary to teach to children. Since it's not that important.

I don't think atheists get to decide what's important to Christian doctrine. You sorta waived that right when you left the faith. I don't get to either for that matter.

[New haven america]

*cough*Stayontopic*cough*thankyou*cough*

We are on topic though, we're talking about sinful behavior and the capacity of teaching people about it.

[Fahran]

*cough*Stayontopic*cough*thankyou*cough*

We are on topic though, we're talking about sinful behavior and the capacity of teaching people about it.

The subject dwells a bit more of Christian theology and Hell, however. We can always have the rest of our discussion else-where.

[The Alma Mater]

Then it's not necessary to teach to children. Since it's not that important.

I don't think atheists get to decide what's important to Christian doctrine. You sorta waived that right when you left the faith. I don't get to either for that matter.

But why do christians get to decide what is important to Hindu doctrine ? You sorta waived that right when you left the faith.

So teaching about Naraka it is.

[Fahran]

But why do christians get to decide what is important to Hindu doctrine ? You sorta waived that right when you left the faith.

So teaching about Naraka it is.

If Hindus want to teach their children about Naraka, I wholly support their right. I have no real interest in pretending that I'm a morally better person or that they're child abusers, as some here have, simply because they teach their children about their religion. As far as I can see, no empirical evidence of harm can be uncovered. If we're going to get into discussions of ethics and morals, we arrive at everyone calling everyone else wrong and immoral - something that's quite fruitless, really.

[New haven america]

I don't think atheists get to decide what's important to Christian doctrine. You sorta waived that right when you left the faith. I don't get to either for that matter.

But why do christians get to decide what is important to Hindu doctrine ? You sorta waived that right when you left the faith.

So teaching about Naraka it is.

Jesus is actually a figure in sects of Hinduism, as he's kinda considered one of the Avatars of Vishnu.

Yeah, the British tried bringing Christianity to India. It didn't work out in the way they wanted it to.

[Fahran]

Jesus is actually a figure in sects of Hinduism, as he's kinda considered one of the Avatars of Vishnu.

Yeah, the British tried bringing Christianity to India, and it kinda backfired...

At risk of getting off-topic yet again, you might want to chat with Hana about Christianity's introduction to Japan. It's quite interesting how some traditions manage to absorb proselytizing religions into preexisting frameworks. It really is an interesting topic, just not one for this thread in all likelihood.

[Neanderthaland]

Then it's not necessary to teach to children. Since it's not that important.

I don't think atheists get to decide what's important to Christian doctrine. You sorta waived that right when you left the faith. I don't get to either for that matter.

You can't have it both ways. Either hell is essential or it's not. If it's not, then it doesn't have to be taught. If it is, then your entire previous line of argument fails.