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Men and women in the same rooms while travelling?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Men and women in the same rooms while travelling?

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:50 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/p ... exism.html

Ms. Mendieta was among the Latino outreach team members who she said were expected to stay in a run-down house in Chicago in March 2016. When she arrived, she said she was told she was supposed to sleep in a room with three men she did not know.

“I was shaking with fear,’’ she said. “Literally, I remember thinking to myself, ‘What am I going to do?’” She said she reported the incident to Mr. Pelletier.

Why is the left both the quickest to insinuate that men in the same bedroom as women are bound to rape them, while acting the most indignant at the insinuation about transwomen in bathrooms? If the penis is not the basis for the narrative that all men are "potential rapists," what is?

When I went to Tokyo, I didn't stay at a private room. I stayed at a 12-bed room. You were each assigned your own bed, and there were security cameras between, but not pointed at, the beds. That way, you could sleep in privacy, but if you went over to someone else's bed uninvited, staff would know. That alone would be enough a deterrent even if your conscience alone were not. Sounds like a better solution than having to build some bedrooms for men, others for women, and then having to turn away several potential customers because all the ones you get one particular week happen to be of the same sex.

We sex-segregate dorms at public universities, and the barracks in the military, but that's to deter even the most consensual sex as much as rape, as pregnancies in those contexts have worse implications than outside it. And perhaps that's pushing it as it is.

Besides, if one insinuated that, sans such security cameras, gay men would rape other men, that'd be considered homophobic. How is saying the same about straight men not misandrous?
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:02 pm

Sorry don’t have an account for the full article.

Even then some rather baseless claims bordering on sweeping generalizations.

Have some examples of the “left” saying that?
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:08 pm

Oh my god, this OP is a disaster. Before even dissecting it, let's point out that you're picking out a very small portion of a quite long article devoid of context and then expanding into a whole bizarre universe based on that. It's very annoying.
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html

Ms. Mendieta was among the Latino outreach team members who she said were expected to stay in a run-down house in Chicago in March 2016. When she arrived, she said she was told she was supposed to sleep in a room with three men she did not know.

“I was shaking with fear,’’ she said. “Literally, I remember thinking to myself, ‘What am I going to do?’” She said she reported the incident to Mr. Pelletier.

Why is the left both the quickest to insinuate that men in the same bedroom as women are bound to rape them, while acting the most indignant at the insinuation about transwomen in bathrooms? If the penis is not the basis for the narrative that all men are "potential rapists," what is?

First of all, one woman is suddenly the entire LeftTM? If anything, I'd argue that she's being very non-left with her behavior. Stereotyping a group of people because some of them did bad stuff and treating them differently from opposing groups is not pro-equality, it's the opposite (and not left-wing as a result). She's also being really heteronormative.
Second of all, trans women are women and not men, not all trans women have penises and misandrist notions about men's potential for rape are rarely about their genitalia (with the only real proponents of this being themselves TERFs).
When I went to Tokyo, I didn't stay at a private room. I stayed at a 12-bed room. You were each assigned your own bed, and there were security cameras between, but not pointed at, the beds. That way, you could sleep in privacy, but if you went over to someone else's bed uninvited, staff would know. That alone would be enough a deterrent even if your conscience alone were not. Sounds like a better solution than having to build some bedrooms for men, others for women, and then having to turn away several potential customers because all the ones you get one particular week happen to be of the same sex.

That's all fine and dandy (well actually, it's quite creepy and a significant violation of privacy, but whatever), but as she said, it was a "run-down house." They're not gonna have the budget for a bunch of security cameras anyway.
We sex-segregate dorms at public universities, and the barracks in the military, but that's to deter even the most consensual sex as much as rape, as pregnancies in those contexts have worse implications than outside it. And perhaps that's pushing it as it is.

Those should not be segregated by gender either.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:09 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:Sorry don’t have an account for the full article.

Even then some rather baseless claims bordering on sweeping generalizations.

Have some examples of the “left” saying that?

One person implied it in an NYT article, does that count?
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:11 pm

It's entirely reasonable for a woman to be uncomfortable staying in a room alone with three strange men. Jesus, this is pretty easy shit.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:15 pm

Okay, so a woman got uncomfortable sharing a room in a run-down home with three men who were complete strangers to her...

And the natural conclusion drawn from it is that it's the fault of the entirety of the left-wing political spectrum?

This OP would definitely get an A+ in Bullshittery 101.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:15 pm

Scomagia wrote:It's entirely reasonable for a woman to be uncomfortable staying in a room alone with three strange men. Jesus, this is pretty easy shit.

She didn't say they were strange, only that she didn't know them (which is not in itself a reasonable excuse for being afraid). I'd be scared if I was in a room with three weirdos regardless of gender, but we don't know that they were.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:17 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Scomagia wrote:It's entirely reasonable for a woman to be uncomfortable staying in a room alone with three strange men. Jesus, this is pretty easy shit.

She didn't say they were strange, only that she didn't know them (which is not in itself a reasonable excuse for being afraid). I'd be scared if I was in a room with three weirdos regardless of gender, but we don't know that they were.

Do you even understand English? For fucks sake, man.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strange

2a: not before known, heard, or seen : UNFAMILIAR


And yes, lack of familiarity with people is a perfectly valid reason to not be unconscious around them.
Last edited by Scomagia on Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:23 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:She didn't say they were strange, only that she didn't know them (which is not in itself a reasonable excuse for being afraid). I'd be scared if I was in a room with three weirdos regardless of gender, but we don't know that they were.

Do you even understand English? For fucks sake, man.

It would be helpful if you would elaborate on what exactly I'm missing instead of merely insulting and then misgendering me.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:26 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Do you even understand English? For fucks sake, man.

It would be helpful if you would elaborate on what exactly I'm missing instead of merely insulting and then misgendering me.

See the edit. I wasn't insulting you, I was observing your apparent unfamiliarity, strangeness if you will, with the English language.

It's not misgendering, chief. I wasn't calling you a man. It's a turn of phrase. Oversensitive much?
Last edited by Scomagia on Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:30 pm

Sounds like she’s pretty sexist - if it was a white man afraid to share a room with three black men, there wouldn’t be a bit of sympathy in the world.

Now, when was she voted queen of The Left?
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:34 pm

Galloism wrote:Sounds like she’s pretty sexist - if it was a white man afraid to share a room with three black men, there wouldn’t be a bit of sympathy in the world.

Now, when was she voted queen of The Left?

It's reasonable to not want to be unconscious in the presence of strangers, Gallo.
Last edited by Scomagia on Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:36 pm

In a women's bathroom, there are stalls, and you are supposed to be awake and have the lights on. Being awake makes you much less vulnerable.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:37 pm

Scomagia wrote:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strange

2a: not before known, heard, or seen : UNFAMILIAR


And yes, lack of familiarity with people is a perfectly valid reason to not be unconscious around them.

Honestly, if you have to cite a dictionary, you're failing. But if you actually read the text of that definition, you'll see that it isn't really referring to a person. "Not before known [or] heard" is not something you'd say about a person unless you really aren't able to speak English well.
Scomagia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:It would be helpful if you would elaborate on what exactly I'm missing instead of merely insulting and then misgendering me.

See the edit. I wasn't insulting you, I was observing your apparent unfamiliarity, strangeness if you will, with the English language.

Now I'm really wondering if you understand English. "I was observing your apparent strangeness with the English language"? Seriously?
It's not misgendering, chief. I wasn't calling you a man. It's a turn of phrase. Oversensitive much?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/man
an adult male human being:

See, I used your thing against you. What fun!
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:38 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Sounds like she’s pretty sexist - if it was a white man afraid to share a room with three black men, there wouldn’t be a bit of sympathy in the world.

Now, when was she voted queen of The Left?

It's reasonable to not want to be unconscious in the presence of strangers, Gallo.

Sure, but then she would say “three strangers”. Instead, she said “three men she did not know”. Would she have reacted the same way to three women she didn’t know?

[x]
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:39 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Sounds like she’s pretty sexist - if it was a white man afraid to share a room with three black men, there wouldn’t be a bit of sympathy in the world.

Now, when was she voted queen of The Left?

It's reasonable to not want to be unconscious in the presence of strangers, Gallo.

Whether it is or isn't, it is no more reasonable based on your gender, race, or whatever.
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Postby Kowani » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:41 pm

Now that is a loaded OP.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:42 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Scomagia wrote:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strange



And yes, lack of familiarity with people is a perfectly valid reason to not be unconscious around them.

Honestly, if you have to cite a dictionary, you're failing. But if you actually read the text of that definition, you'll see that it isn't really referring to a person. "Not before known [or] heard" is not something you'd say about a person unless you really aren't able to speak English well.
Scomagia wrote:See the edit. I wasn't insulting you, I was observing your apparent unfamiliarity, strangeness if you will, with the English language.

Now I'm really wondering if you understand English. "I was observing your apparent strangeness with the English language"? Seriously?
It's not misgendering, chief. I wasn't calling you a man. It's a turn of phrase. Oversensitive much?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/man
an adult male human being:

See, I used your thing against you. What fun!

You do know there's a word for people you don't know, right? Stranger, I believe it is. Golly gee, how did that ever become a thing? Don't get surly because you don't know a common meaning to a common word. Educate yourself instead of getting defensive.

You did a different and much, much stupider thing, bud. Anyone familiar with American English would know that I was not calling you a man. Hell, I think the Brits would get it too. Stop being so sensitive.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:43 pm

Galloism wrote:
Scomagia wrote:It's reasonable to not want to be unconscious in the presence of strangers, Gallo.

Sure, but then she would say “three strangers”. Instead, she said “three men she did not know”. Would she have reacted the same way to three women she didn’t know?

[x]

You are assuming she wouldn't have reacted the same way. You have no evidence to that effect.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:46 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Sure, but then she would say “three strangers”. Instead, she said “three men she did not know”. Would she have reacted the same way to three women she didn’t know?

[x]

You are assuming she wouldn't have reacted the same way. You have no evidence to that effect.

Fair, but then again, it’s not uncommon on business trips to book people into double occupancy rooms with employees they don’t know or barely know, and in single sex arrangements that’s never really been reported in the media before.

I still say [x].
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:48 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Scomagia wrote:It's reasonable to not want to be unconscious in the presence of strangers, Gallo.

Whether it is or isn't, it is no more reasonable based on your gender, race, or whatever.

Untrue. Certain characteristics would make such a fear more or less reasonable. It's more reasonable for an adult to be afraid of sleeping in the same room as adult strangers than child strangers. It's more reasonable for a small person to be afraid of sleeping in the same room as significantly larger strangers than the reverse. And so on.

Race, however, is not a reasonable criterion.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:49 pm

Galloism wrote:
Scomagia wrote:You are assuming she wouldn't have reacted the same way. You have no evidence to that effect.

Fair, but then again, it’s not uncommon on business trips to book people into double occupancy rooms with employees they don’t know or barely know, and in single sex arrangements that’s never really been reported in the media before.

I still say [x].

'kay. I still say "dunno, don't really care to play the assumption game".
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:53 pm

Scomagia wrote:You do know there's a word for people you don't know, right? Stranger, I believe it is. Golly gee, how did that ever become a thing?

Indeed, much like how the word "internet" comes from the prefix "inter-" and the word "net" and it means a collection of bug-catching nets attached to each other. It's almost like words don't have a literal absolute definition and derived terms don't follow a specific pattern, and you're certainly not making a fool of yourself by trying to pretend that that is the case.
Don't get surly because you don't know a common meaning to a common word. Educate yourself instead of getting defensive.

Actually, I'm "surly" because you are the most grating person I have ever spoken to rather than because I'm an idiot, but thanks for the diagnosis!
You did a different and much, much stupider thing, bud. Anyone familiar with American English would know that I was not calling you a man. Hell, I think the Brits would get it too. Stop being so sensitive.

Ah, I'm glad you can finally see how stupid your favorite style of spewing bullshit is, at least when done by others. Progress!
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:54 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Whether it is or isn't, it is no more reasonable based on your gender, race, or whatever.

Untrue. Certain characteristics would make such a fear more or less reasonable. It's more reasonable for an adult to be afraid of sleeping in the same room as adult strangers than child strangers. It's more reasonable for a small person to be afraid of sleeping in the same room as significantly larger strangers than the reverse. And so on.

Race, however, is not a reasonable criterion.

And why do you think gender is a reasonable means for determining people of whom you will be afraid?
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:54 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Fair, but then again, it’s not uncommon on business trips to book people into double occupancy rooms with employees they don’t know or barely know, and in single sex arrangements that’s never really been reported in the media before.

I still say [x].

'kay. I still say "dunno, don't really care to play the assumption game".

Well, let’s see what was done to address her concern:

“I was shaking with fear,’’ she said. “Literally, I remember thinking to myself, ‘What am I going to do?’” She said she reported the incident to Mr. Pelletier.

The campaign committee said that “the challenge of finding staffer housing is one that plagues every large campaign.” It said it knew of one instance that was brought to the attention of senior leaders, including Mr. Weaver, the campaign manager, and that both Mr. Weaver and the chief operating officer “ordered that staff never be housed in coed hotel rooms again.”


Huh, well the campaign addressed her concern by... explicitly making sure she was housed with strange women instead.

Wonder if she had the same problem again. The article doesn’t mention it.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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