Evidence Mounts of Measles Attacks Triggering Immunoamnesia

[Andsed]

As I said before do not make it mandatory in terms of “get this shot or get fined or go to jail” but instead make it a requirement for kids to get vaccines to attend school (and the school should offer them to students free of charge, and the child should be able to get them without their parents permission). All US states ALREADY require it for school and several allow kids to get them without their parents permission.

The problem is simply that we allow to many exemptions.
And the exemptions have been grossly abused. We need to simply eliminate all non medical exemptions (which several states have done or are doing).

It does not require a dramatic, draconian change.

Just cutting out the exemptions.

We should also make it mandatory to get vaccinated before you can get a passport.

Pretty much this. I would also add that we require schools to teach about vaccines and if a child gets sick because they were not vaccinated charge the parents with child neglect.

[Galloism]

I’d say forcing medical procedures on unwilling adults is a nice path down the worst timeline.

Keep in mind: forced impregnation was basically the norm for thousands of years.

That’s the heart of the issue though, isn’t it? It isn’t about forcing it on adults, it’s about ensuring children are vaccinated. And it’s often their ignorant, vaccinated parents causing the issue. So it’s a situation where the state should triumph the authority of parents for the safety of their children, and society at large.

And that’s a valid argument for children. Because whether we vest authority for medical decisions for those who can’t decide for themselves with the state or with their guardian is a valid point of contention, and the state does make sense.

But we also vaccinate adults. And there’s where a civil rights problem comes in.

[Galloism]

Besides that, we let the immunocompromised, who would suffer greatly from vaccination, the right to go without, and that puts the herd at the exact same risk as Joe Blow the idiot

Nope.
There are way less immunocompromised people than anti-vax idiots.
Also, there's a rationale behind letting immunocompromised go around without vaccines: because vaccines could actually hurt them. Joe Blow the idiot could take the vaccine without negative side effects.

By the way: letting the immunocompromised going around without a vaccine isn't "giving them a right to go without": it's recognising that their fundamental right to health requires the recognition of their special medical condition.

Which means we’re letting them go without because we sympathize with their reasons, while not sympathizing with other reasons. And sometimes there’s valid reasons to make that distinction - the difference between murder and self defense for example - but your tacit acknowledgement that your single unvaccinated immunocompromised individual carries the same risk as joe blow the idiot proves this risk is something you’re willing to tolerate.

Except, as you pointed out, there’s more Joe Blows. So Joe Blow isn’t the hazard. It’s too many Joe Blows. Each Joe Blow, acting individually, is not causing a hazard of any significant nature. And that’s how we think of in terms of civil rights. “Is this person causing a significant hazard by this action?”

If each Joe Blow was such a risk, we’d either require the immunocompromised to take the risk and get vaccinated, or we would confine them to their homes. We do neither.

Then there are no civil rights, basically.

Every action, from traveling to speaking to free assembling to refusing a voluntary search can and has endangered others.

That makes civil rights relative instead of absolute. Still, there is no absolute right, so, no wonder.

Glad we can imprison everyone who proposes socialism given socialists have killed millions, and if enough people take up the cause we get gulags.

Because it’s not one individual’s actions that matter, it’s what could collectively happen if a lot of them do it.

[Estanglia]

That’s the heart of the issue though, isn’t it? It isn’t about forcing it on adults, it’s about ensuring children are vaccinated. And it’s often their ignorant, vaccinated parents causing the issue. So it’s a situation where the state should triumph the authority of parents for the safety of their children, and society at large.

And that’s a valid argument for children. Because whether we vest authority for medical decisions for those who can’t decide for themselves with the state or with their guardian is a valid point of contention, and the state does make sense.

But we also vaccinate adults. And there’s where a civil rights problem comes in.

Which is why I'm not a fan of mandatory vaccinations for adults.

There's pretty big civil rights implications with forcing medical procedures onto competent adults.
The same doesn't really exist for children, because there's already a precedent for the state overriding the parents in regards to medical decisions, and I don't see why vaccinations would make a massive change to that.