Are 8+ hour workdays unreasonable?

[Rojava Free State]

Yeah, here's a way to be paid more. If I'm working for you then give me enough money to actually survive, something I as a worker and a human deserve.

Why should I if your labor is not valuable enough to society?

Factory workers aren't valuable? The people at a drive through aren't valuable? The landscapers aren't valuable? The guys on a cherry farm in California aren't valuable?.

Oh but those guys in Congress who do nothing but bullshit are valuable. Seems like you have your values mixed up

[Paddy O Fernature]

Why should I if your labor is not valuable enough to society?

Factory workers aren't valuable? The people at a drive through aren't valuable? The landscapers aren't valuable? The guys on a cherry farm in California aren't valuable?.

Oh but those guys in Congress who do nothing but bullshit are valuable. Seems like you have your values mixed up

You should stop stuffing that strawman of yours, he already looks to be pretty full as it is.

And No, 8+ hour workdays are very reasonable.

[Rojava Free State]

Factory workers aren't valuable? The people at a drive through aren't valuable? The landscapers aren't valuable? The guys on a cherry farm in California aren't valuable?.

Oh but those guys in Congress who do nothing but bullshit are valuable. Seems like you have your values mixed up

You should stop stuffing that strawman of yours, he already looks to be pretty full as it is.

And No, 8+ hour workdays are very reasonable.

What strawman? I brought up to petrolia that people deserve a basic wage to be able to survive and he immediately began assigning value to people's jobs. I brought up in return that many of the jobs where people aren't paid enough are very valuable to society. But please, insult me instead of actually making a damn argument

[Infected Mushroom]

Why should I if your labor is not valuable enough to society?

Employees aren't paid according to the value of their labour to society. They're paid the minimum amount their employer can get them to accept.

I believe the technical term for this phenomenon is "exploitation of labour"

[Paddy O Fernature]

You should stop stuffing that strawman of yours, he already looks to be pretty full as it is.

And No, 8+ hour workdays are very reasonable.

What strawman? I brought up to petrolia that people deserve a basic wage to be able to survive and he immediately began assigning value to people's jobs. I brought up in return that many of the jobs where people aren't paid enough are very valuable to society. But please, insult me instead of actually making a damn argument

You said you need to be paid a living wage because you are basically entitled to it. Which is false to begin with but that's beside the point. Petrol then ask why people should if your labor isn't valuable enough to warrant so.. aka your skillset is lacking and doesn't deserve a higher wage. You then proceed to go off on some wild tangent that ends with you throwing obvious shade towards congress, which has nothing to do with the current point Petrol was making. Thus, your argument is a strawman as you are trying to attack a point in which nobody here is trying to make in the first place.

Calling out your argument for being an illogical fallacy isn't an insult. Sorry, if you feel that way, but it doesn't magically make it so.

Employees aren't paid according to the value of their labour to society. They're paid the minimum amount their employer can get them to accept.

I believe the technical term for this phenomenon is "exploitation of labour"

I believe the term you are looking for here was "Basic Economics"..

[Rojava Free State]

What strawman? I brought up to petrolia that people deserve a basic wage to be able to survive and he immediately began assigning value to people's jobs. I brought up in return that many of the jobs where people aren't paid enough are very valuable to society. But please, insult me instead of actually making a damn argument

You said you need to be paid a living wage because you are basically entitled to it. Which is false to begin with but that's beside the point. Petrol then ask why people should if your labor isn't valuable enough to warrant so.. aka your skillset is lacking and doesn't deserve a higher wage. You then proceed to go off on some wild tangent that ends with you throwing obvious shade towards congress, which has nothing to do with the current point Petrol was making. Thus, your argument is a strawman as you are trying to attack a point in which nobody here is trying to make in the first place.

Calling out your argument for being an illogical fallacy isn't an insult. Sorry, if you feel that way, but it doesn't magically make it so.

Valuable enough. Wow what a big difference. My point was that clearly the money people are paid doesn't always equal their labor's actual value to society. People are entitled a living wage because they deserve to be able to survive. Yes, we shouldn't be doing ridiculous stuff like giving a $15 an hour wage to a guy who works part time selling hats in time square, but if you work long hours filing sheets of metal at the local IBM factory, they ought to give you enough to feed your family.

[Ifreann]

I believe the technical term for this phenomenon is "exploitation of labour"

I believe the term you are looking for here was "Basic Economics"..

Basic capitalist economics, sure.

[Paddy O Fernature]

You said you need to be paid a living wage because you are basically entitled to it. Which is false to begin with but that's beside the point. Petrol then ask why people should if your labor isn't valuable enough to warrant so.. aka your skillset is lacking and doesn't deserve a higher wage. You then proceed to go off on some wild tangent that ends with you throwing obvious shade towards congress, which has nothing to do with the current point Petrol was making. Thus, your argument is a strawman as you are trying to attack a point in which nobody here is trying to make in the first place.

Calling out your argument for being an illogical fallacy isn't an insult. Sorry, if you feel that way, but it doesn't magically make it so.

Valuable enough. Wow what a big difference. My point was that clearly the money people are paid doesn't always equal their labor's actual value to society. People are entitled a living wage because they deserve to be able to survive. Yes, we shouldn't be doing ridiculous stuff like giving a $15 an hour wage to a guy who works part time selling hats in time square, but if you work long hours filing sheets of metal at the local IBM factory, they ought to give you enough to feed your family.

IBM actually pays pretty good from what I can tell. Also, just because you have a job doesn't mean you are entitled to anything. Don't want to work a job paying $10.00? Don't take it and find something else. If a person lacks the skills to find or get anything else, then perhaps they should rethink ones life choices up until this point.

[Ifreann]

Valuable enough. Wow what a big difference. My point was that clearly the money people are paid doesn't always equal their labor's actual value to society. People are entitled a living wage because they deserve to be able to survive. Yes, we shouldn't be doing ridiculous stuff like giving a $15 an hour wage to a guy who works part time selling hats in time square, but if you work long hours filing sheets of metal at the local IBM factory, they ought to give you enough to feed your family.

IBM actually pays pretty good from what I can tell. Also, just because you have a job doesn't mean you are entitled to anything...

Why not?

[Petrolheadia]

IBM actually pays pretty good from what I can tell. Also, just because you have a job doesn't mean you are entitled to anything...

Why not?

Because your job may be near-worthless.

[Petrolheadia]

You said you need to be paid a living wage because you are basically entitled to it. Which is false to begin with but that's beside the point. Petrol then ask why people should if your labor isn't valuable enough to warrant so.. aka your skillset is lacking and doesn't deserve a higher wage. You then proceed to go off on some wild tangent that ends with you throwing obvious shade towards congress, which has nothing to do with the current point Petrol was making. Thus, your argument is a strawman as you are trying to attack a point in which nobody here is trying to make in the first place.

Calling out your argument for being an illogical fallacy isn't an insult. Sorry, if you feel that way, but it doesn't magically make it so.

Valuable enough. Wow what a big difference. My point was that clearly the money people are paid doesn't always equal their labor's actual value to society. People are entitled a living wage because they deserve to be able to survive. Yes, we shouldn't be doing ridiculous stuff like giving a $15 an hour wage to a guy who works part time selling hats in time square, but if you work long hours filing sheets of metal at the local IBM factory, they ought to give you enough to feed your family.

Not if you can pretty much grab any schmuck of the street and easily tell him how to file the sheets.

[Ifreann]

Why not?

Because your job may be near-worthless.

So? Why should that affect a person's entitlements?

[Petrolheadia]

Because your job may be near-worthless.

So? Why should that affect a person's entitlements?

Because their work presents lower value to the general society.

[Infected Mushroom]

Valuable enough. Wow what a big difference. My point was that clearly the money people are paid doesn't always equal their labor's actual value to society. People are entitled a living wage because they deserve to be able to survive. Yes, we shouldn't be doing ridiculous stuff like giving a $15 an hour wage to a guy who works part time selling hats in time square, but if you work long hours filing sheets of metal at the local IBM factory, they ought to give you enough to feed your family.

Not if you can prettt much grab any schmuck of the street and easily tell him how to fill the sheets.

I mean, most if not every job can be taught on-the-job assuming there's sufficient mentorship (within 1 year probably)

it's just that there's a lot of artificial barriers

[Paddy O Fernature]

IBM actually pays pretty good from what I can tell. Also, just because you have a job doesn't mean you are entitled to anything...

Why not?

I believe that if you want anything from an employer, it's on you as the potential employee to work that out in your contract prior to actually taking the job. What I don't believe in, is the notion that just because you have any old job, that you should be entitled automatically to say.. $X/hr, X Benefits, X Compensation ect ect.

[Petrolheadia]

Not if you can prettt much grab any schmuck of the street and easily tell him how to fill the sheets.

I mean, most if not every job can be taught on-the-job assuming there's sufficient mentorship (within 1 year probably)

it's just that there's a lot of artificial barriers

Source on that?

[Ifreann]

So? Why should that affect a person's entitlements?

Because their work presents lower value to the general society.

So what? Why should entitlements be related to this "value to the general society" idea.

---

Not if you can prettt much grab any schmuck of the street and easily tell him how to fill the sheets.

I mean, most if not every job can be taught on-the-job assuming there's sufficient mentorship (within 1 year probably)

it's just that there's a lot of artificial barriers

Probably not as much as you think.

[Petrolheadia]

Because their work presents lower value to the general society.

So what? Why should entitlements be related to this "value to the general society" idea.

Because these entitlement come out of other people's pockets.

[Ifreann]

Why not?

I believe that if you want anything from an employer, it's on you as the potential employee to work that out in your contract prior to actually taking the job. What I don't believe in, is the notion that just because you have any old job, that you should be entitled automatically to say.. $X/hr, X Benefits, X Compensation ect ect.

Okay, you believe that, but why should it be so? Why is it a desirable to have situations where people are working, but not able to support themselves or get healthcare or take time off or whatever? Does it benefit anyone to have a class of people who work 40 hour weeks to barely cover rent on a shoebox and a tin of beans every other day?

[Ifreann]

So what? Why should entitlements be related to this "value to the general society" idea.

Because these entitlement come out of other people's pockets.

Yeah, everything in society does. So what?

[Diopolis]

Because these entitlement come out of other people's pockets.

Yeah, everything in society does. So what?

Yeah, why should I have to pay for someone else who’s too spoiled to work less than 8 hours a day out of wages I work a bit more than 8 hours for?

[Caleonia]

Overall, the whole 40-hour work week thing is fine with me. After a while it does result in severe burnouts and whatnot, but, overall it really depends on the region, occupation, and benefits you receive when you retire. I kinda consider transportation to be apart of the rest time mentioned earlier, and I also found this graph that shows that non-agricultural job hours per week has generally stayed the same over the past 60 years in the US.

...at least we aren’t in North Korean labor camps that force a 112 hour work week.

[Ifreann]

Yeah, everything in society does. So what?

Yeah, why should I have to pay for someone else who’s too spoiled to work less than 8 hours a day out of wages I work a bit more than 8 hours for?

Today in capitalism, a Catholic asks an atheist why he should help other people.

[Caleonia]

Yeah, why should I have to pay for someone else who’s too spoiled to work less than 8 hours a day out of wages I work a bit more than 8 hours for?

Today in capitalism, a Catholic asks an atheist why he should help other people.

Why does this happen all too often?

[Petrolheadia]

Yeah, why should I have to pay for someone else who’s too spoiled to work less than 8 hours a day out of wages I work a bit more than 8 hours for?

Today in capitalism, a Catholic asks an atheist why he should help other people.

Atheism does not make you smarter.