Immigrant recruits who were promised citizenship discharged

[Novus America]

That citizens of a foreign country which has extremely tense relations are discharged? How’s that a dick move and not a logical just-to-be-safe decision?

How is it there fault that there country of origin has tense relations with the US?

They clearly liked the US enough to support it, that's why they wanted citizenship in the first place.

They failed their security clearances. You will not fail solely because you come from a place with bad relations though that certainly hurts.
Mostly it is because financial problems or failure to disclose certain facts.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

How is it there fault that there country of origin has tense relations with the US?

They clearly liked the US enough to support it, that's why they wanted citizenship in the first place.

There were thousands of KGB spies in the US during the cold war (and there could well be hundreds of modern Russian spies in the US today). The spies joined the military, penetrated top political circles, and became a part of the American business world. While the US and China are not as bad as Russia and the US were, keep in mind tensions are rising by the minute and it could escalate into an all out arms race not too long from now. Also keep in mind Chinese spies are quite active in the US, most notably Dianne Feinstein’s driver

Sounds like a lot of Mccarthy era paranoia.

No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, if these guys liked America enough to serve, they should be welcome as citizens.


If they actually did anything wrong, then you can throw them out, but only if they actually do something wrong.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

There were thousands of KGB spies in the US during the cold war (and there could well be hundreds of modern Russian spies in the US today). The spies joined the military, penetrated top political circles, and became a part of the American business world. While the US and China are not as bad as Russia and the US were, keep in mind tensions are rising by the minute and it could escalate into an all out arms race not too long from now. Also keep in mind Chinese spies are quite active in the US, most notably Dianne Feinstein’s driver

Sounds like a lot of Mccarthy era paranoia.

No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, if these guys liked America enough to serve, they should be welcome as citizens.


If they actually did anything wrong, then you can throw them out, but only if they actually do something wrong.

I agree, but remember they failed background checks. I think it’s a completely reasonable response, especially considering how much espionage hurt the US during the cold war

[Cameroi]

humans are untrustworthy. where they or their parents were born has nothing to do with it.
so the current instance of this thread, we've got bigotry in the u.s., that has managed to become the institution at the highest levels.

another case of everyone said it couldn't happen because the constitution, that has happened.

and population isn't created by people relocating between countries, its created by people making babies.
closing borders is no solution to anything.
lowering the human birth rate across the board, in a non-discriminatory manor, is.

there is no good bigotry except against bigotry itself.

going back in history, america's recruiting of the irish during the potatoe famine,
further back that arcadian drift.

sometimes we get over ourselves and get better.
we did elect obama, though we've yet to elect a woman, and countries that make less of a deal about freedom and equality have,
and then we backslide into dickishness.

the pattern of what has happened is no great mystery.
politics with economic health has created a market for extremism.

however much a side issue of why it was done, its what we not have.
if we don't start disinfecting it somehow,
america becomse germany in 1939. spliting hairs over what to call that is beside the point of it too.

freedom isn't created by belligerance either.
i think having a cultural mythose that implies that it is, lies at the very root of the problem.

[Novus America]

There were thousands of KGB spies in the US during the cold war (and there could well be hundreds of modern Russian spies in the US today). The spies joined the military, penetrated top political circles, and became a part of the American business world. While the US and China are not as bad as Russia and the US were, keep in mind tensions are rising by the minute and it could escalate into an all out arms race not too long from now. Also keep in mind Chinese spies are quite active in the US, most notably Dianne Feinstein’s driver

Sounds like a lot of Mccarthy era paranoia.

No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, if these guys liked America enough to serve, they should be welcome as citizens.


If they actually did anything wrong, then you can throw them out, but only if they actually do something wrong.

They CLAIMED to like it enough. But their security investigators decided their claims not convincing enough. You cannot take what someone claims at face value.

Also you cannot just join the military because you want to, the military has to want you as well.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

How is it there fault that there country of origin has tense relations with the US?

They clearly liked the US enough to support it, that's why they wanted citizenship in the first place.

They failed their security clearances. You will not fail solely because you come from a place with bad relations though that certainly hurts.
Mostly it is because financial problems or failure to disclose certain facts.

I get that, but considering how much rich guys in the US fail to disclose finances properly to the IRS and still have US citizenship then It doesn't seem fair to do this to the recruits.

Sounds like a lot of Mccarthy era paranoia.

No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, if these guys liked America enough to serve, they should be welcome as citizens.


If they actually did anything wrong, then you can throw them out, but only if they actually do something wrong.

I agree, but remember they failed background checks. I think it’s a completely reasonable response, especially considering how much espionage hurt the US during the cold war

Yes, but that still doesn't necessarily mean that they are a spy.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

There were thousands of KGB spies in the US during the cold war (and there could well be hundreds of modern Russian spies in the US today). The spies joined the military, penetrated top political circles, and became a part of the American business world. While the US and China are not as bad as Russia and the US were, keep in mind tensions are rising by the minute and it could escalate into an all out arms race not too long from now. Also keep in mind Chinese spies are quite active in the US, most notably Dianne Feinstein’s driver

No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, if these guys liked America enough to serve, they should be welcome as citizens.

It’s very naïve of you to assume they’re enlisting because they like America, especially considering the current circumstances

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Sounds like a lot of Mccarthy era paranoia.

No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water, if these guys liked America enough to serve, they should be welcome as citizens.


If they actually did anything wrong, then you can throw them out, but only if they actually do something wrong.

They CLAIMED to like it enough. But their security investigators decided their claims not convincing enough. You cannot take what someone claims at face value.

Also you cannot just join the military because you want to, the military has to want you as well.

If they where recruiting in China then I guess they wanted them.

[Novus America]

They failed their security clearances. You will not fail solely because you come from a place with bad relations though that certainly hurts.
Mostly it is because financial problems or failure to disclose certain facts.

I get that, but considering how much rich guys in the US fail to disclose finances properly to the IRS and still have US citizenship then It doesn't seem fair to do this to the recruits.

I agree, but remember they failed background checks. I think it’s a completely reasonable response, especially considering how much espionage hurt the US during the cold war

Yes, but that still doesn't necessarily mean that they are a spy.

This was not a denial or loss of citizenship. It was a denial of a security clearance.
They can still seek citizenship the normal route.

[Novus America]

They CLAIMED to like it enough. But their security investigators decided their claims not convincing enough. You cannot take what someone claims at face value.

Also you cannot just join the military because you want to, the military has to want you as well.

If they where recruiting in China then I guess they wanted them.

They were not recruited from overseas. They were already living in the US. And applied for military service, but failed their security clearances before fully accepted.

[Fartsniffage]

I get that, but considering how much rich guys in the US fail to disclose finances properly to the IRS and still have US citizenship then It doesn't seem fair to do this to the recruits.



Yes, but that still doesn't necessarily mean that they are a spy.

This was not a denial or loss of citizenship. It was a denial of a security clearance.
They can still seek citizenship the normal route.

Except now they have a denial of a security clearance on their record and no idea why it was denied. Seems to me like that will not help their chances going through the normal route, but I'm no expert on the US immigration process.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

This was not a denial or loss of citizenship. It was a denial of a security clearance.
They can still seek citizenship the normal route.

Except now they have a denial of a security clearance on their record and no idea why it was denied. Seems to me like that will not help their chances going through the normal route, but I'm no expert on the US immigration process.

Being denied a military clearance doesn’t affect green card processing

[Novus America]

This was not a denial or loss of citizenship. It was a denial of a security clearance.
They can still seek citizenship the normal route.

Except now they have a denial of a security clearance on their record and no idea why it was denied. Seems to me like that will not help their chances going through the normal route, but I'm no expert on the US immigration process.

It should not affect it as a military security clearance is not required to get your citizenship.
Also if your security clearance is denied you can reapply after a year anyways.

[Fartsniffage]

Except now they have a denial of a security clearance on their record and no idea why it was denied. Seems to me like that will not help their chances going through the normal route, but I'm no expert on the US immigration process.

It should not affect it as a military security clearance is not required to get your citizenship.
Also if your security clearance is denied you can reapply after a year anyways.

That would be the usual rules. Apparently those are being suspended for these people. No right to know why it was denied and no right of appeal.

[Ayytaly]

It's gotta be ethnic bias. Remember when Trump mocked that soldier of MENA stock?

[Rojava Free State]

Seriously what a dick move on the part of the government. You're really gonna promise citizenship to people who dedicated their lives to fighting for us and then say "nah, I'm just kidding"

[Novus America]

It should not affect it as a military security clearance is not required to get your citizenship.
Also if your security clearance is denied you can reapply after a year anyways.

That would be the usual rules. Apparently those are being suspended for these people. No right to know why it was denied and no right of appeal.

If what they claim is true about that, that would be a problem.

[Novus America]

Seriously what a dick move on the part of the government. You're really gonna promise citizenship to people who dedicated their lives to fighting for us and then say "nah, I'm just kidding"

They did not fight. They failed a security clearance before they even finished training.
They were offered a chance to get fast track citizenship IF they met certain requirements but failed to meet one of the requirements.

[Fartsniffage]

That would be the usual rules. Apparently those are being suspended for these people. No right to know why it was denied and no right of appeal.

If what they claim is true about that, that would be a problem.

As an aside. Do you generally have to pass a security check just to join the military in the US?

[Rostavykhan]

If what they claim is true about that, that would be a problem.

As an aside. Do you generally have to pass a security check just to join the military in the US?

Yes; when I went to BCT (I'm not military currently, long story, no worries) I had to contact a lot of family and acquaintances, had to get references, medical checks, criminal history, etc., just to make sure I was good to go. I think some other posters who may have enlisted might have a better recollection of what the background checks entail, though, since I was right out of highschool at the time, so it was all just sorta something I didn't think too deep into.

I just got back from the Congo, where I chopped the hands and feet off dozens of indigenous people for failing to harvest enough naturally occurring rubber.

Thank you, Belgium ancestry

I know the feeling. I keep committing various human rights violations and sending people to prison camps. Must have something to do with my Korean ancestry.

My Greek ancestors keep telling me to expand my empire into India. I don't know why they chose me, I'm just trying to ride the wave, man. I can't even form a Phalanx.

[Novus America]

If what they claim is true about that, that would be a problem.

As an aside. Do you generally have to pass a security check just to join the military in the US?

Yes. All federal government jobs require one.
And all military personnel have access to at least confidential materials.

[Neko-koku]

Sadly there is no solution here. The so-called PRC is evil and does not represent the Chinese people. What's even worse is that it has hijacked the minds of a considerable amount of Chinese people. However it is not true at all that all ethnic Han Chinese people or even everyone born in the so-called PRC are CCP drones. For example this kitty isn't.

Seriously PRC needs to be overthrown before there will be a fucking WWIII.

[Fartsniffage]

As an aside. Do you generally have to pass a security check just to join the military in the US?

Yes. All federal government jobs require one.
And all military personnel have access to at least confidential materials.

Huh. I didn't need one until I was trained on something secret.

[Publica]

Except now they have a denial of a security clearance on their record and no idea why it was denied. Seems to me like that will not help their chances going through the normal route, but I'm no expert on the US immigration process.

It should not affect it as a military security clearance is not required to get your citizenship.
Also if your security clearance is denied you can reapply after a year anyways.

My understanding is that they can't reapply, as the program that they applied with has been shut down.

[Novus America]

Yes. All federal government jobs require one.
And all military personnel have access to at least confidential materials.

Huh. I didn't need one until I was trained on something secret.

Not all require a secret clearance but that is a higher level clearance.
Even a simple schedule of your units deployment is usually classified as confidential.
So you have to be cleared to see confidential materials at the minimum.

But even non military non sensitive federal jobs require a what is called a public trust clearance, the lowest level of clearance.
Still a clearance though.