Too Much Pressure to Identify?

[Sarzonia]

Teenage years are part of the journey toward what you mentioned in the OP: finding yourself. Coming from someone who's in his 40's, that journey potentially can be a lifelong one.

It's up to each person to be true to themselves.

That said, I've seen someone I know and admire get pressured constantly to come out because he's consistently and publicly supported the LGBTQ+ community. I don't know if he's LGBTQ+ or not. That drives me nuts because you don't have to be LGBTQ+ to support the community.

[Yuyencia]

broken branch not hard work focus ineffective identity are attain consequence incapability

[Merther]

I voted yes.

Because I don't care what gender you claim to be, I think there's only two genders, Female and Male. So non-binary gender people have to accept that some people out there consider that there's just two genders, and there's no point of putting political pressure on any kid, because their parents at home might just be telling them that there's two genders and that's how it is. That's the way it is and you should leave it at that.

Parents raise their kids. Not gay pride activists.

[Ifreann]

Adolescents should probably be focusing on more important things than "sexual identity", like school perhaps. There's plenty of time later in life for that "finding yourself" nonsense.

Although we may not see eye to eye for this politics but I completely agree. They should be productive first then worry about other crap later.

Birth - 12: Too young to be thinking about sexuality and gender
12 - 18: Too busy learning to be thinking about sexuality and gender
18 - Retirement: Even busier working full time, still no thinking about sexuality and gender
Retirement - Death: You may now figure out your sexuality and gender, congratulations!

[Cekoviu]

I don't think there's an issue with pushing people towards identifying as bi or pan in a general sense, but there is definitely pressure on bi and pan people to "pick a side" (which could be pressuring towards identifying as gay).

I'm more concerned that a 15 year old child already has an extensive dating history; perhaps they should concentrate on their school work?

You can know what sexuality you are without having dated already; it's not like sexual attraction only kicks in for the first time after you start dating someone. I mean, I knew I was bi before I dated anyone.

[Arkhane]

The thing is, why do you need to identify to begin with? The point of social justice is to create a world without labels, the term became a negative by-word when it did anything but and created a lot of unnecessary labels. At 15 you either haven't developed yet or you're heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, and your sexuality and preference can change as you grow. You might even lose interest in it all-together.

All these stargender, greygender, gender-fluid non-binary poly-bi-neutrois aromantic 40/60 "genders" are the products of first world boredom and/or the need to feel special/seek attention.

[Cekoviu]

I voted yes.

Because I don't care what gender you claim to be, I think there's only two genders, Female and Male. So non-binary gender people have to accept that some people out there consider that there's just two genders, and there's no point of putting political pressure on any kid, because their parents at home might just be telling them that there's two genders and that's how it is. That's the way it is and you should leave it at that.

Parents raise their kids. Not gay pride activists.

Your incorrect view of gender is completely irrelevant to whether pressure is being put on people to identify as a certain sexuality, but thanks so much for sharing this shitty hot take.

All these stargender, greygender, gender-fluid non-binary poly-bi-neutrois aromantic 40/60 "genders" are the products of first world boredom and/or the need to feel special/seek attention.

Three of those things are legitimate identities and for about half of the other stuff, either basically nobody identifies as it (and they're definitely not pressured to) or you just made it up.

[Ifreann]

The thing is, why do you need to identify to begin with?

No one needs to if they'd rather not. It's useful to have a word for things if you want to talk about them, but it's entirely workable for people to describe their gender or sexuality with longer sentences than "I am [whatever]".

The point of social justice is to create a world without labels,

No it isn't.

the term became a negative by-word when it did anything but and created a lot of unnecessary labels. At 15 you either haven't developed yet or you're heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, and your sexuality and preference can change as you grow. You might even lose interest in it all-together.

All these stargender, greygender, gender-fluid non-binary poly-bi-neutrois aromantic 40/60 "genders" are the products of first world boredom and/or the need to feel special/seek attention.

Or they're attempts by people to coin terms for complicated sets of feelings.

[Arkhane]

The thing is, why do you need to identify to begin with?

No one needs to if they'd rather not. It's useful to have a word for things if you want to talk about them, but it's entirely workable for people to describe their gender or sexuality with longer sentences than "I am [whatever]".

The point of social justice is to create a world without labels,

No it isn't.

the term became a negative by-word when it did anything but and created a lot of unnecessary labels. At 15 you either haven't developed yet or you're heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, and your sexuality and preference can change as you grow. You might even lose interest in it all-together.

All these stargender, greygender, gender-fluid non-binary poly-bi-neutrois aromantic 40/60 "genders" are the products of first world boredom and/or the need to feel special/seek attention.

Or they're attempts by people to coin terms for complicated sets of feelings.

Feelings are not gender, and if your personality mainly consists of you describing your sexuality, you're probably a very boring person with no other significant traits to begin with. I am not a gay X, I'm an X who just happens to be gay.

[SD_Film Artists]

.

The point of social justice is to create a world without labels,

No it isn't.

Indeed, if anything they have to invent new terms (or put a twist on old terms) to encapsulate their BS; validation, mansplaining, internalised _ism, gatekeeping....

[Arkhane]

.

No it isn't.

Indeed, if anything they have to invent new terms (or put a twist on old terms) to encapsulate their BS; validation, mansplaining, internalised _ism, gatekeeping....

I am referring ofcourse to what they claim to be doing, not what they have actually done, which is the complete opposite.

[Cekoviu]

.

No it isn't.

Indeed, if anything they have to invent new terms (or put a twist on old terms) to encapsulate their BS; validation, mansplaining, internalised _ism, gatekeeping....

I'm guessing you don't understand the meaning of these terms.

[Page]

I'm more concerned that a 15 year old child already has an extensive dating history; perhaps they should concentrate on their school work?

High school dating doesn't necessarily mean going out on dates and having sex. In my day we loosely used the terms "dating" or "going out" to describe the phenomenon of having a person with whom you would make out with in the hallway between classes for 6 weeks after which a "break up" over some silly drama would transpire.

[Ifreann]

No one needs to if they'd rather not. It's useful to have a word for things if you want to talk about them, but it's entirely workable for people to describe their gender or sexuality with longer sentences than "I am [whatever]".

No it isn't.

Or they're attempts by people to coin terms for complicated sets of feelings.

Feelings are not gender,

But gender is feelings. One feels like a man, or a woman, or both, or neither, etc.

and if your personality mainly consists of you describing your sexuality,

I never suggested that anyone's personality mainly consists of their sexuality, but sometimes that is the most pertinent aspect of one's identity to talk about. Like, there's a lot more to people than their name, but often when you meet a new person that's the first thing they tell you about themselves.

you're probably a very boring person with no other significant traits to begin with. I am not a gay X, I'm an X who just happens to be gay.

And if a member of the opposite sex was flirting with you, would you tell them that you're gay and they're wasting their time, or would you spend hours trying to fully encapsulate your whole being, describing every element of your identity, your religious beliefs, ethnic heritage back ten generations, political beliefs, educational background, a full history of everywhere you've ever lived, your hobbies and pastimes, etc, etc, "who happens to be gay"?

[Arkhane]

Feelings are not gender,

But gender is feelings. One feels like a man, or a woman, or both, or neither, etc.

and if your personality mainly consists of you describing your sexuality,

I never suggested that anyone's personality mainly consists of their sexuality, but sometimes that is the most pertinent aspect of one's identity to talk about. Like, there's a lot more to people than their name, but often when you meet a new person that's the first thing they tell you about themselves.

you're probably a very boring person with no other significant traits to begin with. I am not a gay X, I'm an X who just happens to be gay.

And if a member of the opposite sex was flirting with you, would you tell them that you're gay and they're wasting their time, or would you spend hours trying to fully encapsulate your whole being, describing every element of your identity, your religious beliefs, ethnic heritage back ten generations, political beliefs, educational background, a full history of everywhere you've ever lived, your hobbies and pastimes, etc, etc, "who happens to be gay"?

No I don't think so, feeling like a dog doesn't make you one, your personal definition of gender is invalid. Also when I'm dating someone I'm not going to go and "spend hours encapsulating my whole being and describing every element of my identity etc." If the one I'm dating does that, I'm going to save myself and leave their narcissistic ass, as for me I prefer to let them figure me out and find my quirks as it comes, that's my way of finding out whether they're actually interested in me whether through friendship or romance. My sexuality and preferences are just like my skin color and race, there is no need to specify and point them out.

[Ifreann]

But gender is feelings. One feels like a man, or a woman, or both, or neither, etc.

I never suggested that anyone's personality mainly consists of their sexuality, but sometimes that is the most pertinent aspect of one's identity to talk about. Like, there's a lot more to people than their name, but often when you meet a new person that's the first thing they tell you about themselves.

And if a member of the opposite sex was flirting with you, would you tell them that you're gay and they're wasting their time, or would you spend hours trying to fully encapsulate your whole being, describing every element of your identity, your religious beliefs, ethnic heritage back ten generations, political beliefs, educational background, a full history of everywhere you've ever lived, your hobbies and pastimes, etc, etc, "who happens to be gay"?

No I don't think so, feeling like a dog doesn't make you one, your personal definition of gender is invalid.

Species and gender are different things. They don't have to work the same way.

Also when I'm dating someone I'm not going to go and "spend hours encapsulating my whole being and describing every element of my identity etc." If the one I'm dating does that, I'm going to save myself and leave their narcissistic ass, as for me I prefer to let them figure me out and find my quirks as it comes, that's my way of finding out whether they're actually interested in me whether through friendship or romance.

I didn't say anything about dating. I asked if you would just tell someone that you are gay, in a situation where that is relevant. You seemed to think that someone describing their sexuality meant that they must have no other personality, and I am trying to explain to you that that is not true.

My sexuality and preferences are just like my skin color and race, there is no need to specify and point them out.

Well, no, that's not true. You can tell a person's skin colour by looking at them, usually. You can't tell their sexuality.

[Arkhane]

No I don't think so, feeling like a dog doesn't make you one, your personal definition of gender is invalid.

Species and gender are different things. They don't have to work the same way.

Also when I'm dating someone I'm not going to go and "spend hours encapsulating my whole being and describing every element of my identity etc." If the one I'm dating does that, I'm going to save myself and leave their narcissistic ass, as for me I prefer to let them figure me out and find my quirks as it comes, that's my way of finding out whether they're actually interested in me whether through friendship or romance.

I didn't say anything about dating. I asked if you would just tell someone that you are gay, in a situation where that is relevant. You seemed to think that someone describing their sexuality meant that they must have no other personality, and I am trying to explain to you that that is not true.

My sexuality and preferences are just like my skin color and race, there is no need to specify and point them out.

Well, no, that's not true. You can tell a person's skin colour by looking at them, usually. You can't tell their sexuality.

Both of them are based on biological traits, saying you feel like a woman does not mean you are one. Gender, by definition is not a feeling, but a set of roles and expectations based primarily on biological, secondarily on cultural and societal differences. And yes, I would simply tell them I am gay, there is no need to go into any long-winded, self-affirming validations to make sure I am self-realized, and anyone who feels the need to constantly reassure themselves and assert their identity has a weird fixation or some form insecurity. I am equating my gender with race and skin color not because of their physical characteristics, but their relevance to how I interact with people, I ensure as much as possible to treat everyone the same, regardless of their gender or skin color.

[Ifreann]

Species and gender are different things. They don't have to work the same way.

I didn't say anything about dating. I asked if you would just tell someone that you are gay, in a situation where that is relevant. You seemed to think that someone describing their sexuality meant that they must have no other personality, and I am trying to explain to you that that is not true.

Well, no, that's not true. You can tell a person's skin colour by looking at them, usually. You can't tell their sexuality.

Both of them are based on biological traits, saying you feel like a woman does not mean you are one. Gender, by definition is not a feeling, but a set of roles and expectations based primarily on biological, secondarily on cultural and societal differences.

Feelings are biological.

And yes, I would simply tell them I am gay, there is no need to go into any long-winded, self-affirming validations to make sure I am self-realized, and anyone who feels the need to constantly reassure themselves and assert their identity has a weird fixation or some form insecurity.

First you tell me that people who describe their sexuality are boring and have no personality, now you tell me that people who describe their whole personality have weird fixations or some kind of insecurity. I'm starting to think that you just like diagnosing other people with personality problems.

I am equating my gender with race and skin color not because of their physical characteristics, but their relevance to how I interact with people, I ensure as much as possible to treat everyone the same, regardless of their gender or skin color.

Your gender and sexuality are very relevant to how you interact with people.

[Earthbound Immortal Squad]

I would argue that yes there is too much pressure and at such a young age I believe it is wrong. Though I believe this may be a small part of a bigger problem with all the publicity LGBT+ is getting these days I fear the cause as a whole is being forced upon people and those who disagree are sometimes branded as homophobic and other remarks. If someone disagrees with something the worst thing someone can do is try to force it upon them and I fear that will only entrench them more against a cause and eventually it may turn more people against the cause. Situations like this has happened before with me taking the suffrage movement in Great Britain at the start of the 20th century, while I understand why the suffragette movement resorted to violence to sending their message across they only reinforced the view of many men at the time that women were "incapable" of getting the vote if they had to resort to violence. These days though many parts of the world are more liberal and I believe in time LGBT+ people will be able to live out normal lives without fear of discrimination, though I am worried if they try to force the issue then they will cause more harm than good. It is in human nature not to like being told what to think there are countless examples politically and socially across history and recently where a group of people have tried to tell another group what they should think and support and it has backfired heavily.

[Arkhane]

Both of them are based on biological traits, saying you feel like a woman does not mean you are one. Gender, by definition is not a feeling, but a set of roles and expectations based primarily on biological, secondarily on cultural and societal differences.

Feelings are biological.

And yes, I would simply tell them I am gay, there is no need to go into any long-winded, self-affirming validations to make sure I am self-realized, and anyone who feels the need to constantly reassure themselves and assert their identity has a weird fixation or some form insecurity.

First you tell me that people who describe their sexuality are boring and have no personality, now you tell me that people who describe their whole personality have weird fixations or some kind of insecurity. I'm starting to think that you just like diagnosing other people with personality problems.

I am equating my gender with race and skin color not because of their physical characteristics, but their relevance to how I interact with people, I ensure as much as possible to treat everyone the same, regardless of their gender or skin color.

Your gender and sexuality are very relevant to how you interact with people.

Feelings are a part of biology, the CHANGES THEY CAN EXERT over our other biological aspects and physical traits HOWEVER is only very MINIMAL, that's why people who wish to transition need some help with hormones and surgery in order for them to FEEL more like the gender they identify as.

I didn't realize that A. considering people who over-define their gender and identity as boring as well as B. thinking they might have some weird fixation and insecurity need to be mutually exclusive. You're assumptions are incorrect.

In some aspects yes, that's why I told you I TRY to treat both gender as equally as possible. In general, however, there is no relevance to be had. I don't need to make changes to my approach and attitude whenever I'm dealing with a man or a woman, unless there is a need to.

[Dumb Ideologies]

If you slightly resemble the caricatured images people have, you'll find people start trying to "liberate" you by putting you in a box rather than letting you make up your own mind.

More widely, there's a pressure to publically perform a narrow stereotyped role, to act in particular stereotyped ways or be tutted at for being "ashamed" of who you are - as if being quiet, circumspect, introverted and not aggressively political for a very specific program is a moral failing.

People both inside and outside the LGBT community do this and most of the people repeating these lines think they're helping by encouraging you to find the flaming faggot surely buried deep within, but it is misguided and a touch tiresome. That's living in a society, I'm sure other groups have similar things.

Young people are the most vulnerable to being persuaded to make bad decisions, but it was ever thus whatever the big social zeitgeist of the day. I'm sure there'll be a backlash against some of the excesses and we'll find a balance eventually.

[Ifreann]

Feelings are biological.

First you tell me that people who describe their sexuality are boring and have no personality, now you tell me that people who describe their whole personality have weird fixations or some kind of insecurity. I'm starting to think that you just like diagnosing other people with personality problems.

Your gender and sexuality are very relevant to how you interact with people.

Feelings are a part of biology, the CHANGES THEY CAN EXERT over our other biological aspects and physical traits HOWEVER is only very MINIMAL, that's why people who wish to transition need some help with hormones and surgery in order for them to FEEL more like the gender they identify as.

Yes, some people want to change their bodies, which is a feeling, but that feeling alone doesn't cause the change they want. This is obviously true, but I don't know what the relevance is.

I didn't realize that A. considering people who over-define their gender and identity as boring as well as B. thinking they might have some weird fixation and insecurity need to be mutually exclusive. You're assumptions are incorrect.

I'm not assuming anything, just observing that you're consistently ascribing problems to other people apropos of nothing.

In some aspects yes, that's why I told you I TRY to treat both gender as equally as possible. In general, however, there is no relevance to be had. I don't need to make changes to my approach and attitude whenever I'm dealing with a man or a woman, unless there is a need to.

There's never a need to. But I'm betting that you do, fairly consistently, because one of those groups of people you tend to be romantically/sexually attracted to and the other not.

[Liriena]

I can't speak for teenagers in the Anglosphere, but anecdotal evidence on my end of the world suggests that teenagers here are taking a more post-modern, deconstructed approach, just experimenting without putting any labels on their feelings or experiences, but keeping an open mind towards people who do embrace a specific identity. I think that's probably a good thing, because sexuality and gender can be very fluid even when you're on the cusp of adulthood.

That being said, I think a bit of "pressure", or rather healthy encouragement to instrospect about who we are, is good, specially if we're talking about gender non-conforming children and teenagers, who can often lack the language to describe how they feel and experience themselves.

[Ifreann]

I can't speak for teenagers in the Anglosphere, but anecdotal evidence on my end of the world suggests that teenagers here are taking a more post-modern, deconstructed approach, just experimenting without putting any labels on their feelings or experiences, but keeping an open mind towards people who do embrace a specific identity.

Children holding hands with boys AND girls?! Sounds like post-modern neo-Marxism is destroying Argentina.

[Liriena]

I can't speak for teenagers in the Anglosphere, but anecdotal evidence on my end of the world suggests that teenagers here are taking a more post-modern, deconstructed approach, just experimenting without putting any labels on their feelings or experiences, but keeping an open mind towards people who do embrace a specific identity.

Children holding hands with boys AND girls?! Sounds like post-modern neo-Marxism is destroying Argentina.

Tweens just nonchalantly embracing gender neutral pronouns and demanding inclusive sex ed. You hate to see it folks.