The Thread Formerly Known As Communism Will Save The World

[Kowani]

I don't think you understand how resources work.

Yes, I do. A worker is in demand, so if a company wants to hire workers, they had better pay a decent amount, or no worker in their right mind will work there.

Walmart would disagree.

[Diarcesia]

I appreciate your logical consistency. But of course, if morality is subjective, then why can't people murder, steal, lie, enslave, etc.? Why do we consider Nazi Germany evil if good and evil are merely opinions? In that case, why have a society founded on those morals? Why not return to our primal instincts and live in caves? And what's the point of survival, if human life has no objective moral value?

Nearly everyone would see this would be ridiculous. However, it's the result of a lack of morality: there would be no moral value in the human life, and there would therefore be no purpose in life.


Why can't land be like a table in that sense?


1. Okay... I address this at the top of this post.
2.Oh, you mean the Constitution of the United States of America?

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Actually, it will mean the creation of more, better jobs and greater standards of living - similarly to how the Industrial Revolution has led to factory jobs, machine tools, and mass production, or how the more recent Information Revolution has led to IT jobs and innovation such as Google, iPhones, eBooks, and computer games.


What incentive does the rich have to prevent potential consumers from accumulating enough wealth to buy their products? (Granted, there's corporate lobbying, but the solution to that is not to put all of their property into the hands of the government - essentially making it a monopoly - but to repeal economic regulations and increase transparency.)

Except the new hotness is teaching bots to program other bots, cutting humans out of the equation.

Btw, I have worked at Google. It is not nearly as good as you seem to believe for the vast majority of people who work there. The idea that new technology always makes for more better jobs is not some universal law.

Capitalism's biggest benefit to society is to provide us the latest and greatest Shiny Things™ mankind can invent. Job creation is only a side effect.

[The Batorys]

I don't think you understand how resources work.

Yes, I do. A worker is in demand, so if a company wants to hire workers, they had better pay a decent amount, or no worker in their right mind will work there.

Ah okay, it's just you've never actually faced the scenario of working a terrible job or not being able to afford a roof over your head and food on the table.

[Antef]

Either your country isn't a capitalist country, or they are free to work somewhere else.

It doesn't fucking work like that in the real world when survival is at stake.

Exactly what I'm saying, they do not have choice, its either starvation or work.

[Nova Cyberia]

Indeed. Why do you suppose you would be emotionally affected by it? Could it be that you deeply care for those people and you know that killing them for your own personal gain would be wrong?

Because that's all that morality is, fam. It's the basic and fundamental ability to differentiate between right and wrong. Anyone who isn't a psychopath has it.

You might I value the emotional connections given to me by people? Wow. It’s almost like there’s a reason behind shit that isn’t “this is categorically wrong.”

What is right and wrong is entirely subjective.

I appreciate your logical consistency. But of course, if morality is subjective, then why can't people murder, steal, lie, enslave, etc.?

There’s nothing inherently wrong with it. But most people don’t like being the victims of said things.

Why do we consider Nazi Germany evil if good and evil are merely opinions?

Because it is our opinion that Nazi Germany was evil?

In that case, why have a society founded on those morals?

Well, most of us like not suffering.

Why not return to our primal instincts and live in caves?

Because we don’t want to?

And what's the point of survival, if human life has no objective moral value?

To enjoy life.
[quotew
Nearly everyone would see this would be ridiculous. However, it's the result of a lack of morality: there would be no moral value in the human life, and there would therefore be no purpose in life.

None of this is true. Rather, one makes their own purpose.

1. Okay... I address this at the top of this post.
2.Oh, you mean the Constitution of the United States of America?

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Two words: Constitutional Amendment.

Due to automation, yes. The point at there are no longer enough jobs for a huge percentage of the workforce (which is inevitable) is when socialism will become necessary to maintain any semblance of a functioning economy.

Actually, it will mean the creation of more, better jobs and greater standards of living - similarly to how the Industrial Revolution has led to factory jobs, machine tools, and mass production, or how the more recent Information Revolution has led to IT jobs and innovation such as Google, iPhones, eBooks, and computer games.

Fundamentally different situations. Before, the machines couldn’t do the jobs themselves. Now, they can.[/quote]
Yes, but that still does not discredit morality. People have different ideas of what constitutes right and wrong, but the idea of wanting to do what's right and avoid what's wrong is a fundamental idea that most people have.

Killing a member of your family is wrong to you because you love them and care about them and you think they don't deserve to die. Killing them is wrong to you. You want to do what's right. You can frame it all you want as trying to avoid emotional distress, but you still know on a primal level that it's just fucking wrong.

You rejection of morality is cute, but ultimately unrealistic and you yourself are one of the best examples of that.

[Diarcesia]

It doesn't fucking work like that in the real world when survival is at stake.

Exactly what I'm saying, they do not have choice, its either starvation or work.

So the free market decides that the owners of the farm can have a functioning system and make profits with the cheapest possible cost being a loaf of bread.

Speaking from a purely economic perspective, this is optimal. Obviously, it's terrible for those doing the actual work. It's right up the realm of simultaneously legal and unethical/immoral.

[The Batorys]

I don't think you understand how resources work.

Yes, that's also a thing, 'Nobody has power over anyone' really? really?

Exactly.

Someone with more resources and/or greater access to resources, which is what wealth essentially is, always has more power than someone whose has fewer resources and less access to them.

I'm honestly surprised that I have to state this.

[Kowani]

Killing a member of your family is wrong to you because you love them and care about them and you think they don't deserve to die. Killing them is wrong to you. You want to do what's right. You can frame it all you want as trying to avoid emotional distress, but you still know on a primal level that it's just fucking wrong.

You rejection of morality is cute, but ultimately unrealistic and you yourself are one of the best examples of that.

Look at this innovation in psychology! Mind reading! Too bad it doesn’t work.

[Nova Cyberia]

Killing a member of your family is wrong to you because you love them and care about them and you think they don't deserve to die. Killing them is wrong to you. You want to do what's right. You can frame it all you want as trying to avoid emotional distress, but you still know on a primal level that it's just fucking wrong.

You rejection of morality is cute, but ultimately unrealistic and you yourself are one of the best examples of that.

Look at this innovation in psychology! Mind reading! Too bad it doesn’t work.

I don't need to be a mind-reader to know that you would consider killing one of your family members to be wrong. It's a pretty basic thing for most humans, and Nihilists still are not that different from most other humans.

[Antef]

Exactly what I'm saying, they do not have choice, its either starvation or work.

So the free market decides that the owners of the farm can have a functioning system and make profits with the cheapest possible cost being a loaf of bread.

Speaking from a purely economic perspective, this is optimal. Obviously, it's terrible for those doing the actual work. It's right up the realm of simultaneously legal and unethical/immoral.

We do have a thing called 'Minimum Wage' but those things don't apply to refugees, unfortunately, so they only get paid about the price of a bread.

Also the Minimum Wage is like 340 dolars, yeah, even the citizens are on the line of starvation and homelessness if they are not careful.

[Kowani]

Look at this innovation in psychology! Mind reading! Too bad it doesn’t work.

I don't need to be a mind-reader to know that you would consider killing one of your family members to be wrong. It's a pretty basic thing for most humans, and Nihilists still are not that different from most other humans.

Ignoring the massive amount of fratricidal, patricidal and matricidal people throughout history, particularly the Mongols before Unification under the Khans for a moment, it is not that I consider it inherently wrong. Rather, the emotional distress it would generate is the problem.

[Nova Cyberia]

I don't need to be a mind-reader to know that you would consider killing one of your family members to be wrong. It's a pretty basic thing for most humans, and Nihilists still are not that different from most other humans.

Ignoring the massive amount of fratricidal, patricidal and matricidal people throughout history, particularly the Mongols before Unification under the Khans for a moment, it is not that I consider it inherently wrong. Rather, the emotional distress it would generate is the problem.

You don't consider murdering your family to be inherently wrong? Okay, I'll just let you sit on that thought for a minute.

And yes, plenty of people have murdered their families throughout history. That still does not change the fact that most people would find it repulsive.

[Kowani]

Ignoring the massive amount of fratricidal, patricidal and matricidal people throughout history, particularly the Mongols before Unification under the Khans for a moment, it is not that I consider it inherently wrong. Rather, the emotional distress it would generate is the problem.

You don't consider murdering your family to be inherently wrong? Okay, I'll just let you sit on that thought for a minute.

Yes, moral nihilism tends to work like that.

And yes, plenty of people have murdered their families throughout history. That still does not change the fact that most people would find it repulsive.

Three words: Subjective Value Judgement.

[Grand Proudhonia]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

[Antef]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

Is it good if I bad mouth capitalism?

[Diarcesia]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

I think this thread has two topics in mind:
1. Misanthropy being a problem
2. Communism being the solution

The current discussion is more geared to 1.

[Kowani]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

Is it good if I bad mouth capitalism?

That works.

[Nova Cyberia]

You don't consider murdering your family to be inherently wrong? Okay, I'll just let you sit on that thought for a minute.

Yes, moral nihilism tends to work like that.

That's not really moral Nihilism. If your family are murderers or rapists or genocidal maniacs then yes, it might be acceptable to kill them.

But if they haven't done anything wrong and have been kind and loving to you then you would find it wrong.

That's not moral Nihilism, that's nuance.

I swear, its like Nihilists are rediscovering basic morality and acting like it's something new and different.

And yes, plenty of people have murdered their families throughout history. That still does not change the fact that most people would find it repulsive.

Three words: Subjective Value Judgement.

One word: morality

[Diarcesia]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

Is it good if I bad mouth capitalism?

Sure if it's paired with moral nihilism that reduces humans to cogs in your money printing machine.

[Grand Proudhonia]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

I will keep quoting this till yall stop

[Kowani]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

I will keep quoting this till yall stop

Yeah, fine.

[Diarcesia]

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

I will keep quoting this till yall stop

Allow me to quote this too. Just this time.

Hey guys, this thread is about communism.... not morality, so stop thread jacking

I think this thread has two topics in mind:
1. Misanthropy being a problem
2. Communism being the solution

The current discussion is more geared to 1.

[Antef]

Is it good if I bad mouth capitalism?

Sure if it's paired with moral nihilism that reduces humans to cogs in your money printing machine.

Hahahaha. No.

If I did that, I would bankrupt from hyperinflation faster than Wiemar Republic did.

[Grand Proudhonia]

I will keep quoting this till yall stop

Allow me to quote this too. Just this time.

I think this thread has two topics in mind:
1. Misanthropy being a problem
2. Communism being the solution

The current discussion is more geared to 1.

The thread isnt about misanthropy by any means but ok

[Redternetia]

Socialism will save the world. Communism will become the world. Still, I fully agree.