NATION

PASSWORD

The Thread Formerly Known As Communism Will Save The World

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:20 pm

Strahcoin wrote:
Kowani wrote:This distinction only works if you accept the concept of private property, so…

According to John Locke, natural rights include "life, liberty, and the pursuit of property." The Philosophy of Liberty: "A product of your life and liberty is your property." So, yes. If we both acknowledge the natural rights to life and liberty, then we also accept the concept of private property.

Of course, if we dismiss those tenets of classical liberalism, then there's no reason to acknowledge private property. However, if this is the case, then either the right to life or the right to liberty will have to be discarded, justifying murder or slavery, respectively.

That’s odd. I didn’t realize I was John Locke. And yeah, no. Ignoring the fact that one could theoretically allow the right to life (although not a natural right, because that’s just theism without God) I don’t really recognize those either. Not being a classical liberal and all.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141441
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:20 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Is this not clear?

No, shitposts are not clear, Iffy. Sorry.

C- for effort, though.

I'm sorry that you can't grasp the sentiment behind that post.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:22 pm

Nakena wrote:
Kowani wrote:Because we are more than just our instincts?


Embrace the beast in yourself! :twisted:

Screw that noise.

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Because we are more than just our instincts?

Indeed. That's why we do it more intelligently with laws and whatnot.

Chimps have laws, too. Try again.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Great Algerstonia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 393
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:25 pm

This is no longer the OP's thread...

This is OUR thread.

*grabs a snickerdoodle cookie and distributes it equally between each worker of the world*
Read this signature at your own risk.

Sedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.


LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

User avatar
Grand Proudhonia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 487
Founded: Aug 23, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grand Proudhonia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:26 pm

srs though, John Locke is a walking contradiction with very disgusting motives
The Mutualist Society of Grand Proudhonia
"Property Is Theft, Property Is Liberty"


If you have any questions about Mutualist Political Philosophy, feel free to send me a telegram!

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:26 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:No, shitposts are not clear, Iffy. Sorry.

C- for effort, though.

I'm sorry that you can't grasp the sentiment behind that post.

I don't take shitposting seriously.

I mean, what? Do you want people to take shitposts literally? Because that's kind of antithetical to a quality discussion.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:26 pm

Grand Proudhonia wrote:srs though, John Locke is a walking contradiction with very disgusting motives

Also, that.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:27 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Embrace the beast in yourself! :twisted:

Screw that noise.

Nova Cyberia wrote:Indeed. That's why we do it more intelligently with laws and whatnot.

Chimps have laws, too. Try again.

Were they passed by the High Chimp Council?
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:28 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Screw that noise.


Chimps have laws, too. Try again.

Were they passed by the High Chimp Council?

They were passed by the biggest chimp by unanimous vote.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11558
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:29 pm

Kowani wrote:Screw that noise.


*rawr!*

Grand Proudhonia wrote:srs though, John Locke is a walking contradiction with very disgusting motives


Never liked him or his adherents very much.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:29 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Were they passed by the High Chimp Council?

They were passed by the biggest chimp by unanimous vote.

Indeed, but my point is that their "laws" do not exist in the same way our laws do.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:39 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:They were passed by the biggest chimp by unanimous vote.

Indeed, but my point is that their "laws" do not exist in the same way our laws do.

…I mean, at the most basic level, they do.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Indeed, but my point is that their "laws" do not exist in the same way our laws do.

…I mean, at the most basic level, they do.

They don't even have a concept of laws beyond "Ung strong. Ung say pile of rotting banas his.

Rog obey Ung."
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:41 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:…I mean, at the most basic level, they do.

They don't even have a concept of laws beyond "Ung strong. Ung say pile of rotting banas his.

Rog obey Ung."

You should consider studying Chimpanzees. They actually have semi-complex societies.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12876
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:41 pm

Strahcoin wrote:
Kowani wrote:This distinction only works if you accept the concept of private property, so…

According to John Locke, natural rights include "life, liberty, and the pursuit of property." The Philosophy of Liberty: "A product of your life and liberty is your property." So, yes. If we both acknowledge the natural rights to life and liberty, then we also accept the concept of private property.

Of course, if we dismiss those tenets of classical liberalism, then there's no reason to acknowledge private property. However, if this is the case, then either the right to life or the right to liberty will have to be discarded, justifying murder or slavery, respectively.
you know, it's funny you mention slavery....
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:44 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:They don't even have a concept of laws beyond "Ung strong. Ung say pile of rotting banas his.

Rog obey Ung."

You should consider studying Chimpanzees. They actually have semi-complex societies.

Maybe. But I'm confused. You say we're more than our instinct and then you involve animals with semi-complex societies who also seem to have rather primitive concepts of private property.

But it doesn't even just need to be chimps. Lions and bears will all claim territory for themselves and violently attack anyone who trespasses there.

The desire for property is perfectly natural.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Hatterleigh
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Sep 07, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hatterleigh » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:46 pm

wow dude, never heard anything like this before
✦ ✦ ✦ The Free Domain of Hatterleigh ✦ ✦ ✦
National News Network: Hatterlese Ligue A kicks off, Football / Soccer fans prepare for the season
Overview of Hatterleigh | William Botrum, Hatterleigh's President | Hatterlese Embassy Program | I don't use NS stats.
MATH IS REAL

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:47 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:You should consider studying Chimpanzees. They actually have semi-complex societies.

Maybe. But I'm confused. You say we're more than our instinct and then you involve animals with semi-complex societies who also seem to have rather primitive concepts of private property. [

But it doesn't even just need to be chimps. Lions and bears will all claim territory for themselves and violently attack anyone who trespasses there.

The desire for property is perfectly natural.

I think my point has been missed, in that what is natural is not necessarily desirable.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:48 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Maybe. But I'm confused. You say we're more than our instinct and then you involve animals with semi-complex societies who also seem to have rather primitive concepts of private property. [

But it doesn't even just need to be chimps. Lions and bears will all claim territory for themselves and violently attack anyone who trespasses there.

The desire for property is perfectly natural.

I think my point has been missed, in that what is natural is not necessarily desirable.

Why? Is there anything really morally wrong with a family owning a house or a person owning their own small-business?
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:51 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:I think my point has been missed, in that what is natural is not necessarily desirable.

Why? Is there anything really morally wrong with a family owning a house or a person owning their own small-business?

You forget that I reject morality as a concept.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Diarcesia
Minister
 
Posts: 2656
Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Diarcesia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:52 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:I think my point has been missed, in that what is natural is not necessarily desirable.

Why? Is there anything really morally wrong with a family owning a house or a person owning their own small-business?

From what I remember, pre-agricultural societies are more collectivist than individualistic. Being outside of your commune is virtually a death sentence at the time.
Factbooks | Economic Liaison | Maintenance
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Leo "the Wise"?
I thought not. It’s not a story the Byzantines would tell you. It’s a romantic legend.
bespoke and goldpilled

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:53 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Why? Is there anything really morally wrong with a family owning a house or a person owning their own small-business?

You forget that I reject morality as a concept.

Then that's incredibly foolish considering that you do actually have a sense of morality, whether you care to admit it or not.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:54 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Why? Is there anything really morally wrong with a family owning a house or a person owning their own small-business?

From what I remember, pre-agricultural societies are more collectivist than individualistic. Being outside of your commune is virtually a death sentence at the time.

Yes, and then human society evolved beyond that. Not everyone has to spend their entire life in their village anymore.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24165
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:56 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Kowani wrote:You forget that I reject morality as a concept.

Then that's incredibly foolish considering that you do actually have a sense of morality, whether you care to admit it or not.

That’s nice. But no.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:58 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Then that's incredibly foolish considering that you do actually have a sense of morality, whether you care to admit it or not.

That’s nice. But no.

You a psychopath? If no, then you have a sense of morality.

Do you consider murder bad? What about theft? Do you generally consider it good to be honest with friends? These are all basic things that form morality.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arlenton, Auzkhia, Bienenhalde, Ethel mermania, Gandhian India, Geneviev, Greater Miami Shores, Grinning Dragon, Kannap, Kiu Ghesik, Necroghastia, Ngelmish, Philippinia, Rusozak, San Lumen, SD_Film Artists, Shrillland, Solarampa, The Black Forrest, The Greater Ohio Valley, The Hierophancy, The Huskar Social Union, The Reformed American Republic

Advertisement

Remove ads