The Thread Formerly Known As Communism Will Save The World

[Kubra]

You’re claiming false equivalence between France and Communism

How? Plenty of people died in the Terror.

and the second Republic was basically voted out of existence, fraud allegations notwithstanding.

[Aureumterra]

The USSR didn't start a world war and kill 10,000,000+ civilians in the countries it invaded (to end said war). It also did not kill all these people in the same amount of time as Nazi Germany or with the same level of industrial efficiency.


Or, rather than your weird conspiratorial fantasies, it's because the Soviet Union wasn't founded on a death cult calling for the genocide of other, lesser races.

We just gonna pretend like the Holodmor and Stalin's purges didn't happen? Are we also gonna pretend that the Soviet Union didn't commit genocide against the Cossacks and initiate one of the largest ethnic cleansings in human history post-WW2?

They’re all big conspiracies pushed by corporations and the bourgeoisie /s

[Greater vakolicci haven]

If a communist government took over, I would be poor.

No thanks

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

The pursuit of Communism has done nothing good for the world. Just fucking stop already. It's a pipe dream that kills people and destroys cultures.

[Inkopolitia]

You don't know shit about communism, go read DAS KAPITAL, instead of repeating internet arguments

"You have to read 20 books, 9 of which are only in Russian, to even HOPE to grasp what communism is. If you're not willing to spend a year of your life learning Russian and another 2 months to read thr 20 books you shouldn't debate with me, you plebeian!"

[Nova Cyberia]

If a communist government took over, I would be poor.

No thanks

If you're a capitalist or a reactionary then you'd be dead.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

If a communist government took over, I would be poor.

No thanks

If you're a capitalist or a reactionary then you'd be dead.

I'm quite close to anarcho-capitalist.

[Flecatya]

Communism won't succeed if it's by the model of Khrushchev and Gorbachev; that much was proven by Kennedy and Yeltsin. Only Stalin and Mao really had an idea of how to maintain a Communist government for a sustained period, based upon their natural adaptations of the Marxist-Leninist model. It was Khrushchev's Trotsky-lite internationalism and Gorbachev's attempts to ape Western democracy that killed Soviet communism, and Chinese communism still survives (albeit adapted to a more capitalist-oriented world).

[Nova Cyberia]

If you're a capitalist or a reactionary then you'd be dead.

I'm quite close to anarcho-capitalist.

Then you'd definitely be dead or laboring away in the salt mines.

[Aureumterra]

How? Plenty of people died in the Terror.

and the second Republic was basically voted out of existence, fraud allegations notwithstanding.

How does that make France equivalent with Communism though? Saying France is on its 5th republic as a way to justify communism is a weak argument at best

[Nolo gap]

no ideology will "save the world". but giving up ideological prejudice and the worship of symbolic value just might.

always and always i've seen simple logical solutions to political and cultural conundrums opposed on the flimsy lame hating logic excuses of ideology.
usually capitol ideology, but really, any ideology will do.

so much people fear what they haven't tried, not matter how horrendous what they're familiar with might other wise be.
so much so that they hide from themselves the real horror they are familiar with for the sake of doing so.

no ideology will save the world, but getting past ANY AND ALL ideology, to honest logic and universal consideration,
of environmental reality and of each other's well being, can alone do, what NO ideology, left, right, up, down, or sideways ever can.

there is, capitolism labels anything that doesn't worship money "socialist". it is meaningless and misleading for it to do so.
but this is not solved by replacing any ideology with any other ideology, but getting beyond the box of the whole idea of ideology.

ideologies are not a default condition of sapience. they are a way of getting people to go along with things, usually things that involve fighting each other,
as if that could provide positive solutions to anything either, they would otherwise have better sense then.

no ideology serves any useful purpose, or any purpose at all, then to manufacture consent.
but people do, often times, mistakenly or with less then honest intent, label anything that is not THEIR ideology, some or another opposing one.
and unfortunately this includes looking beyond ideology entirely to logic and good sense.

[Nova Cyberia]

Communism won't succeed if it's by the model of Khrushchev and Gorbachev; that much was proven by Kennedy and Yeltsin. Only Stalin and Mao really had an idea of how to maintain a Communist government for a sustained period, based upon their natural adaptations of the Marxist-Leninist model. It was Khrushchev's Trotsky-lite internationalism and Gorbachev's attempts to ape Western democracy that killed Soviet communism, and Chinese communism still survives (albeit adapted to a more capitalist-oriented world).

Mao killed over 45 million people.

[Kubra]

You don't know shit about communism, go read DAS KAPITAL, instead of repeating internet arguments

"You have to read 20 books, 9 of which are only in Russian, to even HOPE to grasp what communism is. If you're not willing to spend a year of your life learning Russian and another 2 months to read thr 20 books you shouldn't debate with me, you plebeian!"

well I mean I guess reading Capital is about as daunting

No joke, it's 3000 pages of boredom.

[Aureumterra]

Communism won't succeed if it's by the model of Khrushchev and Gorbachev; that much was proven by Kennedy and Yeltsin. Only Stalin and Mao really had an idea of how to maintain a Communist government for a sustained period, based upon their natural adaptations of the Marxist-Leninist model. It was Khrushchev's Trotsky-lite internationalism and Gorbachev's attempts to ape Western democracy that killed Soviet communism, and Chinese communism still survives (albeit adapted to a more capitalist-oriented world).

Their death tolls are far higher than Hitler’s

[Flecatya]

Communism won't succeed if it's by the model of Khrushchev and Gorbachev; that much was proven by Kennedy and Yeltsin. Only Stalin and Mao really had an idea of how to maintain a Communist government for a sustained period, based upon their natural adaptations of the Marxist-Leninist model. It was Khrushchev's Trotsky-lite internationalism and Gorbachev's attempts to ape Western democracy that killed Soviet communism, and Chinese communism still survives (albeit adapted to a more capitalist-oriented world).

Mao killed over 45 million people.

And China survived and thrived. While deaths are unfortunate and undesirable, they should not be roadblocks to progress, but rather made useful in serving the nation.

[Kubra]

and the second Republic was basically voted out of existence, fraud allegations notwithstanding.

How does that make France equivalent with Communism though? Saying France is on its 5th republic as a way to justify communism is a weak argument at best

because you don't quite get things down the first time. I already said that.

[Vendellamoore]

Ha communism won't save the world. Only a free market theocratic government can do that. By allowing economic freedom and instilling morals, the population can go freely about their lives, as long as they don't commit crimes, if they're rich, it's by their own success, and if they're poor, well then maybe they should work a Little bit harder. But of course the main idea is a nation that serves God above all else, a Nation which honors God's teachings above all else, a Nation that will not tolerate immoral acts.

[Solarist VZ]

Think about it. What is the #1 cause of all the world's current problems? Inequality. What is another? Lack of resources, or rather lack of equal access to those resources. Under a potentially communist direction, we can not only own the means of production but also own the finished product equally.

By ensuring future generations have something to live for, we can no longer pretend that the current system works, or at least just tolerate the current system. We have to act. We have to do something else. And that is why communism will do this exact thing.

How communism can solve inequality, when the revolutionary minds and red commisars replace the old elite, becoming even more powerful than their now-dead enemies?. How it can solve the resource crises when the Communist nations of the past had little consideration of the environment and bulit terrible economies based around the absolute control of swollen bureaucracies and thoughtless autocracts?.
We need take consideration about what it has been tried and known, and it is known that Communism is a fucking failure.

[Flecatya]

Communism won't succeed if it's by the model of Khrushchev and Gorbachev; that much was proven by Kennedy and Yeltsin. Only Stalin and Mao really had an idea of how to maintain a Communist government for a sustained period, based upon their natural adaptations of the Marxist-Leninist model. It was Khrushchev's Trotsky-lite internationalism and Gorbachev's attempts to ape Western democracy that killed Soviet communism, and Chinese communism still survives (albeit adapted to a more capitalist-oriented world).

Their death tolls are far higher than Hitler’s

Because Hitler's National Socialism ruled for 11 years at best, and theirs ruled for decades. Not to mention the disparity between the populations of the Axis Powers during WWII and Soviets+China during their respective time periods.

[Aureumterra]

How does that make France equivalent with Communism though? Saying France is on its 5th republic as a way to justify communism is a weak argument at best

because you don't quite get things down the first time. I already said that.

There’s a difference between not getting things down and genocide

Why do you think the next attempt at communism won’t be another genocide?

[Nova Cyberia]

Mao killed over 45 million people.

And China survived and thrived. While deaths are unfortunate and undesirable, they should not be roadblocks to progress, but rather made useful in serving the nation.

No it didn't. It only began to thrive and become an economic powerhouse after his death when his policies were reversed.

[Flecatya]

Ha communism won't save the world. Only a free market theocratic government can do that. By allowing economic freedom and instilling morals, the population can go freely about their lives, as long as they don't commit crimes, if they're rich, it's by their own success, and if they're poor, well then maybe they should work a Little bit harder. But of course the main idea is a nation that serves God above all else, a Nation which honors God's teachings above all else, a Nation that will not tolerate immoral acts.

Theocracy and capitalism are incompatible. One only needs to look to the Gilded Age to see that. One calls for serving the poor in the name of almighty God, and the other calls for serving the self in the name of almighty Wealth. As the Bible claims, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle...

[Kubra]

Communism won't succeed if it's by the model of Khrushchev and Gorbachev; that much was proven by Kennedy and Yeltsin. Only Stalin and Mao really had an idea of how to maintain a Communist government for a sustained period, based upon their natural adaptations of the Marxist-Leninist model. It was Khrushchev's Trotsky-lite internationalism and Gorbachev's attempts to ape Western democracy that killed Soviet communism, and Chinese communism still survives (albeit adapted to a more capitalist-oriented world).

At least the late Soviet Union was only financially busted, instead of morally.

[Saiwania]

And China survived and thrived. While deaths are unfortunate and undesirable, they should not be roadblocks to progress, but rather made useful in serving the nation.

None of it needed to happen, and it could've been limited in terms of damage. But what's done is done. At least Mao Zedong found out first hand what doesn't work so that he didn't need to repeat it knowing the outcome of certain policy.

[Side 3]

Communism is an insult to God, science, and human nature.