Life after a Global Ecological Collapse

[True Refuge]

Calling any of those people communists is like calling ted Cruz a nazi. Nice way to jump the gun. Also they have next to no power in their party, so I don't even know why we talk about them.

Because they are communists, the fact that you deny this is really telling.

As for attacking corporations, I think the corporations have done plenty to demonize themselves these last few years (automation, outsourcing, using illegal immigrant labor, lobbying both parties to relax anti trust laws and give tax breaks). You're probably one of the last people on both the right and the left defending these greedy fat cat crooks who don't give a dead moose's last shit about the American people. That doesn't make me a communist. It makes me legitimately outraged.

If you're going to keep peddling this far-left, anti-capitalist, anti-corporatist and frankly anti-American horseshit, then I'm going to call you out for being a bloody Bolshevik.

I could call you an anarcho-capitalist and it would make just about the same amount of sense that calling the Democrats communists. Any political scientist, and indeed any actual communist would laugh in your face if you told them the Dems were communist.

Just so we're on the same page, can you please define your view of:

Communist/Communism
Socialist/Socialism
Bolshevik/Bolshevism
Marxism
Marxism-Leninism

Your view of the political spectrum is so far from normal that I feel this is necessary.

[Facts and logic]
Source: https://skepticalscience.com/empirical- ... ediate.htm

Thanks for going to the effort to compile that evidence. I'll have to use that source when dealing with other climate deniers; that information is of top quality.

[Drunkerland]

The Water Bears will rise. Water bear empire!

[Alien Overlord]

Because they are communists, the fact that you deny this is really telling.


If you're going to keep peddling this far-left, anti-capitalist, anti-corporatist and frankly anti-American horseshit, then I'm going to call you out for being a bloody Bolshevik.

You clearly don't understand Socialism and Communism. By your logic I would be a Communist because I don't like Capitalism even though i'm a Third Positionist. Hating Capitalism does not make you a Communist, are you stuck in the Cold War era or something? Also they aren't far left, they are only far left in America because of how right winged your political system is. In Europe they would be center-left.

Not to get off topic, but might i ask what would be considered far-left in Europe?

[Cekoviu]

Look. Science is impossible in this situation, given the obvious lack of control data. We weren't measuring before people were burning fossil fuels, so there's no data without fossil fuels. The best you can hope to come up with is a "the Earth is warming, we don't know why." Fossil fuel emissions is a hypothesis at best. What we DO have vague data on is that the earth warmed significantly about 1,000 years ago, increasing crop yields, and not causing a "global ecological collapse."

The significant uptick in greenhouse gases and fossil fuel emissions and the hugely increasing trend in global average temperature (simply unprecedented within human civilization; your example was localized and minor comparatively) is pretty suspicious, seeing as not much in the way of other variables has been changed. It's also pretty suspicious when you look at the chemical properties of fossil fuels and their byproducts.
Even if we assume that fossil fuels and greenhouse gases have nothing to do with it, the fact of the matter is that the planet is warming up at an alarming rate and ecological disaster is quickly approaching on the horizon.

[Cekoviu]

The earth has seen far worse in it's history. Life will go on.

Life will, sure, but humans and a lot of plants, fungi, and animals probably won't.

[The Rich Port]

The earth has seen far worse in it's history. Life will go on.

who gives a shit what about us

[Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel]

You clearly don't understand Socialism and Communism. By your logic I would be a Communist because I don't like Capitalism even though i'm a Third Positionist. Hating Capitalism does not make you a Communist, are you stuck in the Cold War era or something? Also they aren't far left, they are only far left in America because of how right winged your political system is. In Europe they would be center-left.

Not to get off topic, but might i ask what would be considered far-left in Europe?

Authoritarian Communist and Anarcho-Communist.

[Great Algerstonia]

Britain will be the last to remain. The Warden will rule supreme.

[Alien Overlord]

The earth has seen far worse in it's history. Life will go on.

Life will, sure, but humans and a lot of plants, fungi, and animals probably won't.

I doubt humanity would be wiped out. Our species is incredibly resilient and people are capable of extraordinary things when faced with certain death. Life may be grim and the population may take a massive hit but humanity won't die off.

I can't say anything for other flora and fauna though, apart from maybe cats/dogs/rats.

[True Refuge]

Not to get off topic, but might i ask what would be considered far-left in Europe?

Authoritarian Communist and Anarcho-Communist.

For the sake of discussion, what about revolutionary and democratic socialism?

Afaik, they're both considered pretty far-left too, right? I'd imagine DemSoc wouldn't be as quite as taboo as it is in the US.

[Cekoviu]

Life will, sure, but humans and a lot of plants, fungi, and animals probably won't.

I doubt humanity would be wiped out. Our species is incredibly resilient and people are capable of extraordinary things when faced with certain death. Life may be grim and the population may take a massive hit but humanity won't die off.

I can't say anything for other flora and fauna though, apart from maybe cats/dogs/rats.

I'll say that the Periplaneta, Blatta, and Blattella genera will almost certainly survive.

[Great Algerstonia]

Aureumterra is now a far left socialist? That's funny.

No, they are not marxists.

Well considering how much he loves pushing left-wing agendas, yeah he is.

And they are Marxists.

This conspiracy theory has too many steps to be real. First off the democrats, the so called left party, are not anywhere near being marxists. They receive thousands of dollars a year in donations from wall street and support open immigration that benefits corporations. They're just as plutocrat controlled as the GOP. If there truly was an attack on corporate america, it would be put down immediately

Second off, not every one who disagrees with you is a damn commie. Many of us are libertarians which if anything makes us farther from stalin or mao than you are

Considering that they have actual communists like Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, AOC and Illhan Omar, the DNC are a bunch of far left radicals. And all they do is attack corporations and capitalism.

Stop acting like a damn commie and I won't call you one.

And now we're considering a small amount of people within a party, the entire party...

Thats like saying that since there's this one guy in a small town that's a white supremacist, everyone in that small town is a white supremacist.

Both the GOP and the Democrats do this. They use the radicals as an excuse to condemn the party.

[Antityranicals]

Okay, since clearly it is useless to try to convince you all that correlation is not causation, (especially since CO2 becomes exponentially less effective as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases) let's imagine a hypothetical universe in which the global average temperature actually goes up six degrees, or whatever silliness you think. What happens? How do six extra degrees translate to people dying?

[Great Algerstonia]

Okay, since clearly it is useless to try to convince you all that correlation is not causation, (especially since CO2 becomes exponentially less effective as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases) let's imagine a hypothetical universe in which the global average temperature actually goes up six degrees, or whatever silliness you think. What happens? How do six extra degrees translate to people dying?

That won't be how it works...

Places in Arctic Circle have reached over 90 degrees Farenheit because of this situation.

[Cekoviu]

Thats like saying that since there's this one guy in a small town that's a white supremacist, everyone in that small town is a white supremacist.

There are actually two reasons that this could be true:
- The town is really small, such that only one person lives in the town.
- "One guy" isn't explicitly stated as being only one guy. So he's a white supremacist, but everyone else also happens to be one and they just aren't mentioned.

Loopholes!

[Alien Overlord]

I doubt humanity would be wiped out. Our species is incredibly resilient and people are capable of extraordinary things when faced with certain death. Life may be grim and the population may take a massive hit but humanity won't die off.

I can't say anything for other flora and fauna though, apart from maybe cats/dogs/rats.

I'll say that the Periplaneta, Blatta, and Blattella genera will almost certainly survive.

Cockroaches are hardcore, i'd be inclined to agree.

[Great Algerstonia]

Thats like saying that since there's this one guy in a small town that's a white supremacist, everyone in that small town is a white supremacist.

There are actually two reasons that this could be true:
- The town is really small, such that only one person lives in the town.
- "One guy" isn't explicitly stated as being only one guy. So he's a white supremacist, but everyone else also happens to be one and they just aren't mentioned.

Loopholes!

*whacks you with a stick*

You weren't supposed to think of those. No loopholes allowed!

[True Refuge]

Okay, since clearly it is useless to try to convince you all that correlation is not causation, (especially since CO2 becomes exponentially less effective as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases) let's imagine a hypothetical universe in which the global average temperature actually goes up six degrees, or whatever silliness you think. What happens? How do six extra degrees translate to people dying?

At a cursory glance:

Impacts of 2 degrees C.
Impacts of 4 degrees C
I’ll have a look around for something for a 6 degree increase soon.

No, what you are saying is "screw your actual concrete evidence, I can hide my preconceived notions behind pseudoscience!"

I'd like a response to this please.

Pretty easy to say that when your position is unfalsifiable.

https://xkcd.com/1732/

[Tinhampton]

My name is Lydia Jarvis. I had an accident and I've woken up in 2973. Am I mad, in a coma, or am I really drowni---GLUGLUGLUGLUGLUGLUGLUG?

[Rojava Free State]

My name is Lydia Jarvis. I had an accident and I've woken up in 2973. Am I mad, in a coma, or am I really drowni---GLUGLUGLUGLUGLUGLUGLUG?

We can't help you. Call tickertron

[Antityranicals]

Okay, since clearly it is useless to try to convince you all that correlation is not causation, (especially since CO2 becomes exponentially less effective as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases) let's imagine a hypothetical universe in which the global average temperature actually goes up six degrees, or whatever silliness you think. What happens? How do six extra degrees translate to people dying?

Clearly you're not understanding the complicated science. People will discredit your argument but you'll deny it so I'll just say here that this is why we leave science to the professionals who had to do years and decades of research to understand this instead of you who has failed basis science in your arguments.

So... No answer? Besides, your idea of "science" sounds more exclusive and dogmatic than medieval scholasticism.

[Kowani]

Well, yeah. I’m not claiming we have it great. But “marginally” is too small a qualifier. We’re quite a lot better off.

I'm probably letting the dire nature of the future affect my conclusions too much, so you're probably right, to be honest. I'm not old enough to remember polio or anything like that firsthand, so I'm not as acutely aware of the struggles of the 20th century as I could be.

Neither am I. But I do recognize that we don’t have to fear a lot of the things that made life so shitty in the past.

[Cekoviu]

Okay, since clearly it is useless to try to convince you all that correlation is not causation, (especially since CO2 becomes exponentially less effective as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases) let's imagine a hypothetical universe in which the global average temperature actually goes up six degrees, or whatever silliness you think. What happens? How do six extra degrees translate to people dying?

Ocean-dwelling organisms are largely adjusted to very little temperature change due to the specific heat capacity and mass of the water in which they live; even one or two ^oC could denature the enzymes of a less tolerant cold-blooded organism, particularly arthropods and fish. A 6 degree increase would cause far more damage and kill off a significant number of organisms dwelling low on the food web, radiating outwards and heavily affecting larger organisms that may survive this increase (whales, for example). The heavily lowered amount of available organisms to consume will affect humans in places like Japan that rely heavily on seafood for nutrients, potentially starving people with little else to eat. The marine situation is somewhat more dangerous for marine ecology than humans, though.

The larger problems arise on land. As ice near the poles melts, ocean levels rise and consume near sea-level areas, displacing humans in island countries like Indonesia and Maldives and low-lying land like with Florida. People will have to evacuate these areas and become refugees to other places, which may be met with violence, poverty, and government intervention. And away from the coasts, already hot places are completely inhospitable - good luck living in Saudi Arabia after this level of climate change. Crops cannot grow in important places, animals have to be reared in closer quarters (and the more you rear certain ones, the more you contribute to the temperature). If humans continue reproducing at the same rate, we will quickly be overcrowded and huge swathes of the population will be starving from lack of crops as we reach our carrying capacity. As the Earth heats further, methane stores trapped in ice are released and the very powerful greenhouse gas hugely enhances the prevention of outward heat transfer, until most places are inhospitable or miserable. Eventually, some plague will likely break out from the close and likely unsanitary quarters and wipe out portions of the population.

Et cetera.

[Rojava Free State]

Okay, since clearly it is useless to try to convince you all that correlation is not causation, (especially since CO2 becomes exponentially less effective as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases) let's imagine a hypothetical universe in which the global average temperature actually goes up six degrees, or whatever silliness you think. What happens? How do six extra degrees translate to people dying?

Ocean-dwelling organisms are largely adjusted to very little temperature change due to the specific heat capacity and mass of the water in which they live; even one or two ^oC could denature the enzymes of a less tolerant cold-blooded organism, particularly arthropods and fish. A 6 degree increase would cause far more damage and kill off a significant number of organisms dwelling low on the food web, radiating outwards and heavily affecting larger organisms that may survive this increase (whales, for example). The heavily lowered amount of available organisms to consume will affect humans in places like Japan that rely heavily on seafood for nutrients, potentially starving people with little else to eat. The marine situation is somewhat more dangerous for marine ecology than humans, though.

The larger problems arise on land. As ice near the poles melts, ocean levels rise and consume near sea-level areas, displacing humans in island countries like Indonesia and Maldives and low-lying land like with Florida. People will have to evacuate these areas and become refugees to other places, which may be met with violence, poverty, and government intervention. And away from the coasts, already hot places are completely inhospitable - good luck living in Saudi Arabia after this level of climate change. Crops cannot grow in important places, animals have to be reared in closer quarters (and the more you rear certain ones, the more you contribute to the temperature). If humans continue reproducing at the same rate, we will quickly be overcrowded and huge swathes of the population will be starving from lack of crops as we reach our carrying capacity. As the Earth heats further, methane stores trapped in ice are released and the very powerful greenhouse gas hugely enhances the prevention of outward heat transfer, until most places are inhospitable or miserable. Eventually, some plague will likely break out from the close and likely unsanitary quarters and wipe out portions of the population.

Et cetera.

Even if you think this is the best time in history to be alive (it's not), just remember that the best high comes before the worst hangover

[Rojava Free State]

So... No answer? Besides, your idea of "science" sounds more exclusive and dogmatic than medieval scholasticism.

Of all posts and things to say...You pick the worst choice and easiest to skew-by design as my point was to show how much research these scientists have to do to understand all this-, for cheap points.

Yeah we're done here. You don't care about science you care about being right.

And that's why you're helping fuck us over.

Congrats, hope it was worth it, "mr knows as much as the expertd of one of the most complicated scientific fields."

We live in an era where the president knows more than the generals and random internet experts know more than the scientists

Welcome to the end