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What if the Americas didn't exist?

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Forbokhethe
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Ex-Nation

What if the Americas didn't exist?

Postby Forbokhethe » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 pm

The Americas are two very important continents, there's no doubt about that. In addition to being the home of just over a billion of the Earth's people, the Americas have given us tobacco, tomatoes, potatoes, chocolate, rubber and the fifty United States of America (God bless them).

How would human history have been altered if they didn't exist? It sounds dumb as shit but seriously, let's ignore the effects removing two continents would have on the climate for a second and assume that in 1491 the Americas are replaced by a vast area of submerged continental shelf that stretches from the Arctic to the former Drake Passage - no land exists there anymore whatsoever, Atlantic islands like Bermuda and St Helena are for all intents and purposes on the western end of the world with non plus ultra.

Poor Columbus sails the ocean blue in 1492 but, because the Greeks didn't calculate the circumference of the Earth properly and tricked him into embarking on a much longer voyage than he anticipated, he doesn't make it to India alive. In the short term it's no great loss, Vasco De Gama finds an actual route there a few years later by going around the Cape of Good Hope, but as time goes by things start to diverge from reality.

There's no Mexican and Peruvian gold to supercharge the colonial empire of the Spanish Hapsburgs, Britain is on the edge of the world and probably not in as good a position to control shipping lanes as it was in reality, the immense wealth that came from the cash crop plantations of the Americas (and by extension the slave trade) is never a thing, and no potatoes (highly nutritious while being a staple carbohydrate source) along with the aforementioned things probably means no industrial revolution as we know it occurs. Even if industrialisation does occur, you'll need to find a substitute for rubber. Europe almost certainly isn't as able to kick the rest of the world's ass as it was in real life.

Population growth is different, although perhaps a better word to describe it in comparison to real life's would be lackluster. Without the Columbian Exchange bringing a new staple crop to the cold, damp northern half of Europe, it's less populous compared to the Mediterranean. I have a feeling France, which had several times the population of England in 1500 and which enjoys a more oceanic climate than its neighbours to the north and east, will come out more powerful relative to all of its neighbours (including Spain) than in real life.

What do you think would have happened if the Americas didn't exist and why? Basically...

Do the scientific revolution and the enlightenment occur?
Would there have been industrialisation at all? If not, does the world just get stuck in a perpetual high-level equilibrium trap 18th century?
If the answers to the above are no and yes, what forms of social and political organisation are attainable to Europeans in this scenario?
Will there be any Malthusian issues in Europe with no Columbian Exchange, or will the lack of it just mean the population keeps itself at a lower level instead of exploding like in Ireland and nothing bad happens? Does Europe inevitably suffer from some sort of overcrowding anyway, and if so what happens as a result?
How much would a lack of the potato impact the world in general and Europe in particular? Does a lack of cassava impact Africa similarly?
How is geopolitics and the age of discovery in general affected by the fact that going to and around the Cape of Good Hope is now the sole way for Europeans to go anywhere useful as far as spices and valuable commodities are concerned?
Does Northwest European-style settler colonialism still occur in places suitable for it (Australasia, South Africa, possibly the Maghreb given it's not malarial and the pieds-noirs settled there quite easily)?
How big is Europe's advantage over Asia and Africa with no initial conquest of the Americas?
Is this good or bad for the Turks?
Last edited by Forbokhethe on Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cerinda
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Postby Cerinda » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 pm

Well Columbus would have landed in Asia like he hoped.

And massacred the people there.
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Forbokhethe
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Ex-Nation

Postby Forbokhethe » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:32 pm

Cerinda wrote:Well Columbus would have landed in Asia like he hoped.

And massacred the people there.

I seriously doubt his crew had enough food and fresh water to make it that far.

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Heloin
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Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:34 pm

The Scottish Highlands wouldn't exist since they're a part of the super massive mountain chain that now makes up the Appalachian Mountains.

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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 pm

The climate would be very different and earth would be unrecognizable.
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Playing In The Water
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Postby Playing In The Water » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:30 pm

No chocolate, you say? I have decided I want nothing to do with this apocalyptic hypothetical world you are painting.

Well, except perhaps to go sailing/diving on this colossal, shallow continental shelf you mentioned; that would be a sublime seascape to experience in person, especially since a world with so much more ocean - and like you say, perhaps not having experienced a sweeping Industrial Revolution - would be better able to brace against rampant manmade climate change. More ocean means more tiny carbon sink creatures in it, too, ergo a more stable atmospheric composition in general.

Tens of thousands of square kilometres more of pristine oceanic habitats just sounds enthralling. So far from any major landmasses, it sounds to me like it would be a haven for all manner of marine species, from pelagics in the deep open blue to unique coral systems where the continental shelf gets shallowest nearer the equator. A combined Pacific-Atlantic would have allowed for incredible speciation; it would be a delight to see what plants and animals would have done to adapt to such a massive stretch of open water, especially considering you'd naturally have both 'Pacific' and 'Atlantic' species openly mingling, unlike today (except in some cases of introduced invasives). We might have sargassum floats stretching all the way from West Africa to wash up on the Philippines; a veritable belt of vegetation across the planet. There could be a longer, denser stretch of coral reefs than the Great Barrier; a new 'most diverse ecosystem on Earth.'

Yeah alright, on second thought maybe a 'no Americas' wouldn't be so bad.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:27 pm

Treading water is hard.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:17 pm

I prefer my alternate timelines to be based upon actual events that occurred in history and not based upon removing things that would come to exist anyway
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Tokora
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Postby Tokora » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:53 pm

Columbus starves to death while Europe remains overpopulated.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:55 pm

Well since the Amazon produces an estimated 20% of the worlds oxygen you can remove a shit ton of oxygen from the air. Basically life probably wouldn’t exist
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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:37 pm

Historically Europe neglected colonizing Africa in favor of the new world. Barring this there is no doubt France, England, Spain, Portugal, and the Netherlands would have taken Africa. Trade posts established in the 1400's would have grown to colonies. Rubber was found in Africa and Asia. No idea about india but Australia would have been colonized for sure. Industrial revolution would only have been delayed and its centers maybe shifted.
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:06 pm

Spain would probably lose or win less in any of the major wars that they fought in the 1500s to 1700s.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:07 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Well since the Amazon produces an estimated 20% of the worlds oxygen you can remove a shit ton of oxygen from the air. Basically life probably wouldn’t exist


literally

also no americas means the ocean is a lot bigger which means the climate is different
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Forbokhethe
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Ex-Nation

Postby Forbokhethe » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:20 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:I prefer my alternate timelines to be based upon actual events that occurred in history and not based upon removing things that would come to exist anyway

In communities where people seriously discuss what ifs this would be referred to as ASB anyway, it's clearly not that clever of a scenario. Moreso just thinking about how much the discovery of the Americas are responsible for.


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