The fusion power thread

[Kowani]

Well, no. The Sentinelese are surviving just fine.

By pure statistics, though, it’s unlikely any aliens would be dangerous to us beyond the normal level of pathogen.

We haven't messed with Sentinelese yet. Doesn't mean we won't. Just like Papuans they are pretty much almost certainly going to be wiped out at some point unless they radically reform their societies.

We do have a pretty good reason that we won’t-most people don’t care.

You mean like everyone else?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

We haven't messed with Sentinelese yet. Doesn't mean we won't. Just like Papuans they are pretty much almost certainly going to be wiped out at some point unless they radically reform their societies.

We do have a pretty good reason that we won’t-most people don’t care.

You mean like everyone else?

Not to mention that the Sentinelese are very hostile, attack anyone trying to make contact e and the scientific community really wants to keep the island as it currently is.

[Kowani]

We do have a pretty good reason that we won’t-most people don’t care.

You mean like everyone else?

Not to mention that the Sentinelese are very hostile, attack anyone trying to make contact e and the scientific community really wants to keep the island as it currently is.

Well, yes, that as well.

[Salandriagado]

"Fusion is always 50 years away!"

(Image)

There's a reason why...

Doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, every single fusion experiment has yielded results that indicate cold fusion (the one that we can actually use to generate power reasonably, because the alternative is the core of the sun) isn't very possible.

Why the fuck do you keep going on about cold fusion? We've been able to control hot plasma for a decade now, and we [url=https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.025003]know how to extend it to large-scale positive-yield power production.

because the alternative is the core of the sun

This is as much bullshit as saying that internal combustion engines aren't reasonable because they're basically just explosions in a box.

[Valrifell]

Doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, every single fusion experiment has yielded results that indicate cold fusion (the one that we can actually use to generate power reasonably, because the alternative is the core of the sun) isn't very possible.

Why the fuck do you keep going on about cold fusion? We've been able to control hot plasma for a decade now, and we [url=https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.025003]know how to extend it to large-scale positive-yield power production.

because the alternative is the core of the sun

This is as much bullshit as saying that internal combustion engines aren't reasonable because they're basically just explosions in a box.

Oh wow you cited a mathematical simulation that may or may not reflect reality, I'm convinced now.

[Valrifell]

The fact of the matter is that no physical experiment has yielded results that fusion power is feasible at any level, no matter how you shake it.

[Dooom35796821595]

The fact of the matter is that no physical experiment has yielded results that fusion power is feasible at any level, no matter how you shake it.

Except, you know. The sun.

[Valrifell]

The fact of the matter is that no physical experiment has yielded results that fusion power is feasible at any level, no matter how you shake it.

Except, you know. The sun.

Stellar cores are a bit exceptional there.

[Dooom35796821595]

Except, you know. The sun.

Stellar cores are a bit exceptional there.

Exceptional? They outnumber humanity! Just because we haven’t done it yet doesn’t mean we won’t. We just need more time and funding.

[Valrifell]

Stellar cores are a bit exceptional there.

Exceptional? They outnumber humanity! Just because we haven’t done it yet doesn’t mean we won’t. We just need more time and funding.

There's only so many more experiments they can attempt. 70-ish years trying with no results except for several false positives doesn't bode well.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Stellar cores are a bit exceptional there.

Exceptional? They outnumber humanity! Just because we haven’t done it yet doesn’t mean we won’t. We just need more time and funding.

Sure, the recipe is pretty simple: make a pile of hydrogen about 8% of the sun's mass, and *poof!* instant fusion! A smaller amount of deuterium will work -- I think 2% of the sun's mass will do -- but that's not the easiest to come by.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Exceptional? They outnumber humanity! Just because we haven’t done it yet doesn’t mean we won’t. We just need more time and funding.

There's only so many more experiments they can attempt. 70-ish years trying with no results except for several false positives doesn't bode well.

You do know that that's logical and scientific nonsense, right?

[Valrifell]

Exceptional? They outnumber humanity! Just because we haven’t done it yet doesn’t mean we won’t. We just need more time and funding.

Sure, the recipe is pretty simple: make a pile of hydrogen about 8% of the sun's mass, and *poof!* instant fusion! A smaller amount of deuterium will work -- I think 2% of the sun's mass will do -- but that's not the easiest to come by.

And 2% of the sun's mass is still, quite a lot.

Deuterium also requires specialized plants and energy to make, so if you could hypothetically do it, you'd probably still be operating at a loss.

[Dooom35796821595]

Exceptional? They outnumber humanity! Just because we haven’t done it yet doesn’t mean we won’t. We just need more time and funding.

There's only so many more experiments they can attempt. 70-ish years trying with no results except for several false positives doesn't bode well.

There have been loads of results and we’ve been getting closer with every passing decade. Just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean we should give up.

[Valrifell]

There's only so many more experiments they can attempt. 70-ish years trying with no results except for several false positives doesn't bode well.

You do know that that's logical and scientific nonsense, right?

The first statement is pretty stupid, yah, I already don't stand by that.

The second one isn't, I think. The second one, however? There are no hints there for getting it to work at a level where we can harvest the energy, the literature on the topic is entirely hypothetical or disproving previous experiments on the subject. Barring exotic matter, I don't see it happening.

[Valrifell]

There's only so many more experiments they can attempt. 70-ish years trying with no results except for several false positives doesn't bode well.

There have been loads of results and we’ve been getting closer with every passing decade. Just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean we should give up.

I'm not saying "don't try" I'm saying the idea that more funding will magically make it possible is misguided, it probably won't. I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd love to read some papers on positive results with fusion generation, it'd be neat, but to my knowledge there aren't experiments known to generate a sustainable fusion reaction or anything close to it.

[Dooom35796821595]

There have been loads of results and we’ve been getting closer with every passing decade. Just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean we should give up.

I'm not saying "don't try" I'm saying the idea that more funding will magically make it possible is misguided, it probably won't. I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd love to read some papers on positive results with fusion generation, it'd be neat, but to my knowledge there aren't experiments known to generate a sustainable fusion reaction or anything close to it.

Well, it won’t happen with no money, so more money will help.

And there are loads, but no ones attempting continuous fusion because it’s still not at a net output yet. Also there are a lot of approaches on the best way to achieve fusion, from reactor design to fuel source.
Besides, would so many governments be putting billions into researching fusion if they thought it was impossible?

[Grand Proudhonia]

Fusion Power is a key component to reaching the dream of a post scarcity world... With luck and ingenuity, we will reach it before the 2030s

[Valrifell]

I'm not saying "don't try" I'm saying the idea that more funding will magically make it possible is misguided, it probably won't. I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd love to read some papers on positive results with fusion generation, it'd be neat, but to my knowledge there aren't experiments known to generate a sustainable fusion reaction or anything close to it.

Well, it won’t happen with no money, so more money will help.

And there are loads, but no ones attempting continuous fusion because it’s still not at a net output yet. Also there are a lot of approaches on the best way to achieve fusion, from reactor design to fuel source.
Besides, would so many governments be putting billions into researching fusion if they thought it was impossible?

There are already so many dollars being thrown at fusion research from academia to governments to corporations, everyone's very interested.

Political and corporate entities aren't exactly an authority on science. There was a bunk fusion experiment that failed to replicated, and it's original scientists were still given billions of dollars to pursue their ideas on fusion by Toyota (iirc), and they came up with nothing but sadness. People have burned money on spurious research projects before.

[Dooom35796821595]

Well, it won’t happen with no money, so more money will help.

And there are loads, but no ones attempting continuous fusion because it’s still not at a net output yet. Also there are a lot of approaches on the best way to achieve fusion, from reactor design to fuel source.
Besides, would so many governments be putting billions into researching fusion if they thought it was impossible?

There are already so many dollars being thrown at fusion research from academia to governments to corporations, everyone's very interested.

Political and corporate entities aren't exactly an authority on science. There was a bunk fusion experiment that failed to replicated, and it's original scientists were still given billions of dollars to pursue their ideas on fusion by Toyota (iirc), and they came up with nothing but sadness. People have burned money on spurious research projects before.

As long as the experiments are conducted in a proper and thorough way, then it’s not a waste since we still learn from it. The only waste is the fraudsters.

[New haven america]

Fusion Power is a key component to reaching the dream of a post scarcity world... With luck and ingenuity, we will reach it before the 2030s

With luck and ingenuity it'll take at least 100 years.

And that's if we don't blow the entire planet up during one of those experiments.

[Valrifell]

There are already so many dollars being thrown at fusion research from academia to governments to corporations, everyone's very interested.

Political and corporate entities aren't exactly an authority on science. There was a bunk fusion experiment that failed to replicated, and it's original scientists were still given billions of dollars to pursue their ideas on fusion by Toyota (iirc), and they came up with nothing but sadness. People have burned money on spurious research projects before.

As long as the experiments are conducted in a proper and thorough way, then it’s not a waste since we still learn from it. The only waste is the fraudsters.

Fusion research tends to yield a lot of fraudsters, because it's a very hyped up science with grim prospects as to feasibility.

[Grand Proudhonia]

Fusion Power is a key component to reaching the dream of a post scarcity world... With luck and ingenuity, we will reach it before the 2030s

With luck and ingenuity it'll take at least 100 years.

And that's if we don't blow the entire planet up during one of those experiments.

Then we are all a bit fucked to be frank

[Dooom35796821595]

As long as the experiments are conducted in a proper and thorough way, then it’s not a waste since we still learn from it. The only waste is the fraudsters.

Fusion research tends to yield a lot of fraudsters, because it's a very hyped up science with grim prospects as to feasibility.

All the base evidence that it can be done is there, it’s the other side of fission, fusion boosted nuclear weapons, the theoretical calculations based on small scale experiments, and of course the sun. Any failure isn’t because it can’t be done, but instead is evidence of our inability to do it.

[New haven america]

Fusion research tends to yield a lot of fraudsters, because it's a very hyped up science with grim prospects as to feasibility.

All the base evidence that it can be done is there, it’s the other side of fission, fusion boosted nuclear weapons, the theoretical calculations based on small scale experiments, and of course the sun. Any failure isn’t because it can’t be done, but instead is evidence of our inability to do it.

So why should we waste all of our time on something we can't do when instead we could work on things we know can work right now while also researching fusion?